D90mitch · Jul 17, 2014

I am hopefully planning to create the above. My 90 is pretty capable now but pushing such a nice vehicle so hard off road just seems a bit daft - Green laning and some occasional P&P may be its off road future beyond being me daily driver. I need something to satisfy my nutty off road itch and something to be competitive.

I have a few questions first however to make sure I make the best decisions. To begin with it will be a low budget (haha) hobby but will hopefully go onto better things as the years go by.

For the sake of cost, I plan to start with either a RRC 3.5 v8 or disco 1 3.5 v8 (EFI) - cheap, powerful plus 100" wheelbase (isn)

At some point either will likely become a tray back unless I decide to swap the vehicle before then.

My questions are:

What would be better Disco or RRC as a base vehicle?
Manual or Auto? ( I am thinking auto for a comp truck)
Weld the rear diff up or not until a proper unit can be fitted?

Beyond that I just want any other advice weather it be for equipment, driving or the vehicle itself. A Defender is out of the question as they simply cost too much. Used parts are also a lot easier to get for Disco and RRC.

Cheers.

All depends on the circumstances of the next few months weather this will go ahead. Hopefully everything will be a go.

Dr_evil · Jul 17, 2014

You realise you're just asking what body and interior do people prefer

a disco and RRC are the exact same thing

D90mitch · Jul 17, 2014

Dr_evil said:
You realise you're just asking what body and interior do people prefer

a disco and RRC are the exact same thing

Well in terms of the running gear and chassis yes, but I am talking about the early stages here when the body of the vehicle will be essentially unchanged. Departure angles/approach, stability / centre of mass etc. I'd hazard a guess that the disco will roll a good bit before the RRC.

There won't really be much of an interior left

Dr_evil · Jul 17, 2014

just use you 90 then.......greenlanes wont break it if you're driving properly

theres absolutely no need for a challenge truck on any lanes! Thats what gives bobbles anmo

blue beasty · Jul 17, 2014

Dr_evil said:
just use you 90 then.......greenlanes wont break it if you're driving properly

theres absolutely no need for a challenge truck on any lanes! Thats what gives bobbles anmo

I think you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick there Doc

Pikey · Jul 17, 2014

Don't get a V8 they're crap.. Get a 300tdi disco..

D90mitch · Jul 17, 2014

Dr_evil said:
just use you 90 then.......greenlanes wont break it if you're driving properly

theres absolutely no need for a challenge truck on any lanes! Thats what gives bobbles anmo

You've misinterpreted me or i've written it badly - the D90 will be used for the green lanes as that's what it was made for - what's the point of having a Defender if you don't use it properly? Just don't want to push it hard in competitions and such as its my daily driver and a genuinely nice vehicle. The way I have used it before at some P&P's in the past has been very unfair on it and as a takes a lot of maintenance to keep it up to the standard of a vehicle that does just about everything else but off roading too. In fact it will even be on display at a classic car show later in the summer. It's not a perfect vehicle but it's a nice example of a tastefully modified 90 that is used for what it is supposed to do.

The challenge truck will only ever be used at P&P's, trials and other off road competitions - never green lanes. I too wouldn't be too pleased if a challenge truck came roaring past me on a green lane. the 90 is subtle bar the straight pipe exhaust

D90mitch · Jul 17, 2014

Pikey said:
Don't get a V8 they're crap.. Get a 300tdi disco..

Well I toyed with the idea of a tdi - I do like them a lot - got one in the 90 - but they're just not quick enough. Yes they can be made to be as quick as a v8 but it will cost a great deal. Besides the instant throttle response from a V8 in a competition situation is going to be very beneficial. I net having carbs though because if i go through a puddle, it dies

D90mitch · Jul 18, 2014

jackmac · Jul 18, 2014

I wouldn't weld the diff unless you tow it to events, and also bear in mind for challenges it will probably put you in a higher class. If you start challenging, it's definitely not cheap :frown:

D90mitch · Jul 18, 2014

jackmac said:
I wouldn't weld the diff unless you tow it to events, and also bear in mind for challenges it will probably put you in a higher class. If you start challenging, it's definitely not cheap :frown:

It will be towed to events and used for challenges. i really would like to know though if an auto or manual would be better for challenge driving and trials.

jackmac · Jul 20, 2014

Personal preference I reckon. Plenty of people swear blind by one or the other, there does seem to be more people converting to auto recently though for challenges. Can't comment on trialing.

If you are entering challenges with class setups, I def would not weld the diff. A front winch and a welded diff will put you in the same class as people with 2 winches and open diffs, and you will not be anywhere near as competitive as them.

200tdi ayre · Jul 20, 2014

Ive gone V8 auto in my 90, the auto allows for slow crawl speeds especially good for trialing and smooth changes, you also dont have to worry aboit changing gears aswell as concentrating on the course, winches, lockers etc

Id go with a RRC if youre going for the 100" route just don't wreck a nice one

Dont weld the rear diff it hampers turning circle (V important for trials especially) and as said before will put you in a higher class.

I designed mine to be in a low class but easily upgradable to higher classes.

Kizzeh · Jul 20, 2014

You should have brought my range rover!
In my opinion, and remember opinions are like arseholes everyone has one, creating a high level challenge truck is not for people on a budget. If you start getting involved with winches as a necessity and then you will have a lot bigger obstacles (what you want) and be putting a lot more strain on your motor and have a lot more breakages (what nobody wants)
You also get in the never ending cycle of Somone else is doing better with better gear.

I personally think just as much fun can be had with even a rtv trail. Less in your face modifications but still a challenge of your driving abilitys. Yes a massive lift of suspension and different suspension set ups an all that make you go over bigger things, but that's the vehicle and the modifications getting you over them and it's only driver ability when things get tough. Less modifications = things get touch earlier and more driver skill is needed. Does this make sence?

I know it's not for everyone and I know you want to go over bigger things, but is that just because your driving ability isn't being pushed because you already have a well set up motor?

I suppose what I'm trying to say in this long rambling post is similar to top gears "the fastest car in the world is a hire car"
It's not, but a standard car you push harder and get more out of it. Geddit?

D90mitch · Jul 20, 2014

Ok thanks for the input everyone. This vehicle will only be on a budget for short term - as time goes it will have better and more expensive things put on it such as lockers etc. Besides the question I asked I did have a good idea as to how I would spec it. Kiz - RTV is definite a good test of skill however, the reason for the challenge truck is to save my current vehicle - of which you've seen. It's too nice to thrash and breaking it can prove very expensive as it's by daily driver. Not such the rush to fix an purely off road vehicle so will cut costs greatly. In addition RRC / Disco parts are seemingly cheaper now (used) than Defender bits.

I would also prefer the RRC as a base vehicle but they seem less common. Nearly all the vehicle has LPG fitted now which will have to be removed. Bit of a pain.

Whilst I am here, What size tyres would be good to run? I was thinking 35's but then I thought the axles/bearings wouldn't last long being thrashed off road and there's no way in hell I can afford custom built axles yet. So due to that, 33's seem like a good option. Ironic to be asking a tyre question :roll eyes:

And finally, I know is varies greatly depending on the event, is there usually anything that is commonly banned in these sorts of events? Wouldn't want to fit something and then find out it was banned.

The biggest problem is trying to convince me Dad to let me keep it on his drive

jai_landrover · Jul 20, 2014

A low/middle of the range motor can cost circa £12K to build. If your on about welding up diffs do yourself a favour and forget rover shafts and centres. Sals is a cheap option but again you will need HD shafts. These motors are not a light weight stripped out trials motors they can be upward of 2.5 to 3 tonnes when fully kitted and that weight means you need to beef up just to not break things that would normally be abusable in a sub 1 ton trials motor.

jai_landrover · Jul 20, 2014

Also a 3 tonne tdi auto is going to be absolutly gutless. a fully working serviced v8 which will cost you about £300 for a checkover rebuild and service will be far more suitable then you have to waterproof it if you wish to do water.

As said on a budget your better off starting with a zuki

D90mitch · Jul 20, 2014

Thanks for the info there.

well in the future I hope this vehicle to get some serious heavy duty axles that will be able to stop it from breaking itself. Until then the Land Rover ones will have to do. The vehicle will be stripped out to save weight. Weight saving is going to be a priority ad it's really key to most motorsports. When I say I am going to be on a budget that doesn't mean i'm going to go out buying a China winch and doing dodgy bodges, when I say a budget, that is more so for the purchase of the vehicle. I hope to buy at least midrange stuff in terms of upgrades. I don't plan on changing the vehicle in the future as I hope to extensively modify it over a longer period of time. No i can't afford ARB air lockers and king coil overs all round yet nor a Gigglepin winch but something close will be on the cards in the future. Add bits over time, as most non company funded creations start out.

I am studying automotive engineering and have done some motorsport engineering as extra. Hopefully that will help along with the help from all of you. Help so far has been very informative and I have certainly concluded that I will be avoiding a welded diff for multiple reasons - wait till I can get a proper one(s)

wiltshire landyman · Jul 20, 2014

a Salisbury axle will lose you valuable gnd clearance and if your goin for 33s your gonna need every bit of clearance u can.

D90mitch · Jul 20, 2014

wiltshire landyman said:
a Salisbury axle will lose you valuable gnd clearance and if your goin for 33s your gonna need every bit of clearance u can.

well I would go 35s but I don't think the standard axles or hubs will last long as said, what do you think? you run 37's don't you? on a truck with a standard/trimmed body, 37's or 40's are going to require a lot of lift and will make it too unstable I think.

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