Tonkatruck · Mar 27, 2009

My Disco 1 has the usual holed floor and I want to replace it , being handy myself with a Mig welder I am planning to do this in the next couple of months so I am gearing myself up for the job in hand .I have seen some really nice replacement boot floors which have been riveted in place ! now dont get me wrong as what I've seen have been works of art but surely its an MOT failure isnt it ? I mean if I riveted my sills on or repaired my drivers foot well with a patch using pop rivets then I can visualise my MOT tester taking a sharp intake of breath while shaking his head the same time !
I have welded various vehicles in the past to MOT standard which now requires continous welding all the way around the replacement patch/panel ( to be on the safe side anyway ) . So can someone enlighten me on the requirement as it would be quicker and just as tidy for me to also rivet the boot panel in place BUT I dont want to do all that work only to be told to go away and continuously weld it all the way around . Your advice would be really appreciated - oh one more thing , if its ok to pop rivet the new floor in place , is a holed boot floor an MOT failure in the first place ?

Pikey · Mar 27, 2009

Tonkatruck said:
My Disco 1 has the usual holed floor and I want to replace it , being handy myself with a Mig welder I am planning to do this in the next couple of months so I am gearing myself up for the job in hand .I have seen some really nice replacement boot floors which have been riveted in place ! now dont get me wrong as what I've seen have been works of art but surely its an MOT failure isnt it ? I mean if I riveted my sills on or repaired my drivers foot well with a patch using pop rivets then I can visualise my MOT tester taking a sharp intake of breath while shaking his head the same time !
I have welded various vehicles in the past to MOT standard which now requires continous welding all the way around the replacement patch/panel ( to be on the safe side anyway ) . So can someone enlighten me on the requirement as it would be quicker and just as tidy for me to also rivet the boot panel in place BUT I dont want to do all that work only to be told to go away and continuously weld it all the way around . Your advice would be really appreciated - oh one more thing , if its ok to pop rivet the new floor in place , is a holed boot floor an MOT failure in the first place ?

Boot floor isn't structural and therefore not an mot test item. The seatbelt mountings pass thru the floor and fasten to the chassis and therefore the floor can't be failed on the "corrosion within 30cm of a mounting" rule.

Here this chaps done a good write up http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stage1v8/TechnicalBootFloor.htm

thebiglad · Mar 27, 2009

Tonkatruck said:
My Disco 1 has the usual holed floor and I want to replace it , being handy myself with a Mig welder I am planning to do this in the next couple of months so I am gearing myself up for the job in hand .I have seen some really nice replacement boot floors which have been riveted in place ! now dont get me wrong as what I've seen have been works of art but surely its an MOT failure isnt it ? I mean if I riveted my sills on or repaired my drivers foot well with a patch using pop rivets then I can visualise my MOT tester taking a sharp intake of breath while shaking his head the same time !
I have welded various vehicles in the past to MOT standard which now requires continous welding all the way around the replacement patch/panel ( to be on the safe side anyway ) . So can someone enlighten me on the requirement as it would be quicker and just as tidy for me to also rivet the boot panel in place BUT I dont want to do all that work only to be told to go away and continuously weld it all the way around . Your advice would be really appreciated - oh one more thing , if its ok to pop rivet the new floor in place , is a holed boot floor an MOT failure in the first place ?

Hi there TT, you've raised a number of issues and when this has cropped up before, all the mot blokes on here always say it got to be welded in. Also, there is some confusion/interpretation about the rear seatbelt mounts.
They look as though they are secured to the boot floor but in fact they are secured through the boot floor to the rear axle.

If you can weld, just weld a new floor in, it'll be a better job.

I can't weld so I rivetted one in and for a first attempt I must say that it ended pretty tasty actually - and has past 2 Controle Techniques (our version of mot)

As well as the floor panel you may find that you need to replace the 1 - 4 crossmembers that support it as well.

Cheers
Dave

andyb66 · Mar 27, 2009

One of the rear seat belt mounts is on the rear wheel arch and the rear seats also mount onto the floor. If there is any corrosion in the rear floor within 12 inches of either of these the technically it should fail.

Pikey · Mar 27, 2009

andyb66 said:
One of the rear seat belt mounts is on the rear wheel arch and the rear seats also mount onto the floor. If there is any corrosion in the rear floor within 12 inches of either of these the technically it should fail.

Rear arch isn't the boot floor, is it? And the OP is asking is it a fail if it's pop riveted Assuming he's replaced the floor with a brand new floor panel I don't think corrosion is going to be a problem do you? :doh:

Pikey · Mar 27, 2009

All the testers manual says about seats is this. (I Put the RFF Reason For Failing in as it's presented as a table and doesn't cut and paste very well.

2. Check the driver's and front passengers'
seats for security. RFF. The security of the drivers or front passenger's seat is significantly reduced.
3. Check that the backrests of all seats (front and rear) can be secured in their normal upright position. RFF 3. A seat back that cannot be secured in the upright position.

For corrosion read this MOT UK car and vehicle MOT information equipment car servicing parts and spares - corrosion There is no mention of rear seat mountings at all. Therefore they can not be tested. The MOT testers rules are very specific. If it is not mentioned in the manual it can not be tested.

nicedayforit · Mar 27, 2009

The boot floor is origonally spot welded in place at about 60mm centres. Why not just plug weld the replacement in place with the welds at about the same centres? The seat belt are definitely secured to the chassis, how could they be secured to a spot welded panel? As I understand it the floor panel is not a prescribed panel under the MOT requirements and as such does not require to be seam welded.
Some people bolt new floors into place without problems, don't know about riveting though.

endurance1 · Mar 27, 2009

at the end of the day it depends on what manual your mot tester read, because from what ive seen they all read a different one.
my boot floor was advised on last test and so i fitted a new one just for the sake of it, the original floor pan is only spot welded so all i have done is welded it every three inches along the seam, and i dont care what anyone says, a proper panel looks a lot better than a bodged in sheet steel job.

Pikey · Mar 27, 2009

endurance1 said:
at the end of the day it depends on what manual your mot tester read, because from what ive seen they all read a different one.
my boot floor was advised on last test and so i fitted a new one just for the sake of it, the original floor pan is only spot welded so all i have done is welded it every three inches along the seam, and i dont care what anyone says, a proper panel looks a lot better than a bodged in sheet steel job.

He's not suggesting bodging a sheet steel plate in though. as to the manual everyone should have a read of it before taking there vehicle for an MOT. If you think the tester has failed it on something he shouldn't have. ask to see where in the manual it says it's a fail. He's required by law to show you.

rojbarker · Mar 28, 2009

I just bodged plates in mine - looks great...under the carpet, where no one can see it!

mad mechanic · Mar 28, 2009

redhand said:
All the testers manual says about seats is this. (I Put the RFF Reason For Failing in as it's presented as a table and doesn't cut and paste very well.

2. Check the driver's and front passengers'
seats for security. RFF. The security of the drivers or front passenger's seat is significantly reduced.
3. Check that the backrests of all seats (front and rear) can be secured in their normal upright position. RFF 3. A seat back that cannot be secured in the upright position.

For corrosion read this MOT UK car and vehicle MOT information equipment car servicing parts and spares - corrosion There is no mention of rear seat mountings at all. Therefore they can not be tested. The MOT testers rules are very specific. If it is not mentioned in the manual it can not be tested.

This inspection applies to all seat belts fitted including child seats/restraints etc. However the reasons for rejection should only be applied to those permanently attached to the vehicle ie secured by nuts, bolts etc.
If a belt is fitted, but there is no corresponding seat it is NOT considered to be a seat belt, for the purpose of this inspection

if the boot floor is corroded within a globe of 30cms of the rear seat belt mountings then its a fail..the dickie seat belts are testable if a seat is fitted..and as such if ya brought it to me with a holed boot floor within 30cms of the belt it would get a fail..

also the rear body mounts are usually within the 30cm rule of the boot floor..

3. Any deliberate modification, excessive corrosion, damage, cracks or inadequate repair of a load bearing body or chassis member which seriously affects its strength within 30 cm of the body mountings.
Body Condition

So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, (even if the patch extends beyond the prescribed area) although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed. (provied the original defective panel flange has been removed)

as for seam wedlding, if you replace the panel a spot welded new panel is similar or near identical to original structure..

cmon guys boot floor is a huge piece of steel and to say it aint structural is stupid..if it was'nt needed it would be made of plastic like some vehicles now have..dont bodge it just weld the bugger in..the reason many testers dont fail it if its riveted in is cos not much of it can be seen from underneath and when riveted they are covered in gloop or underseal..now i am all for keeping costs down but would you put it above safety..if you were to roll the vehicle several times and the boot was rotten do you think it would be in one piece when ya finally stopped.. i cant see it my self so just do it right and no one will have any probs..

ah rant over..back to the telly..lol

rustyrangie · Mar 28, 2009

if riveting a boot floor in is so naughty can somebody tell me why ALL pre 93' range rovers originally had a RIVETED DOWN aluminium floor panel the same size as a disco floor

the only steel part of the boot floor are the cross members which are only secured by a single bolt through the floor each end. mine is a later one which has a steel floor which has completely rotten out with less than 12 inches of metal left around the edge holding it to the main floor

i went to the scrappy and cut out the whole rear floor from an early (completely rust free) rangie and intend to let the whole surround into mine then re-rivet in into it's frame.

nicedayforit · Mar 28, 2009

mad mechanic said:
cmon guys boot floor is a huge piece of steel and to say it aint structural is stupid..if it was'nt needed it would be made of plastic like some vehicles now have..dont bodge it just weld the bugger in..the reason many testers dont fail it if its riveted in is cos not much of it can be seen from underneath and when riveted they are covered in gloop or underseal..now i am all for keeping costs down but would you put it above safety..if you were to roll the vehicle several times and the boot was rotten do you think it would be in one piece when ya finally stopped.. i cant see it my self so just do it right and no one will have any probs..

ah rant over..back to the telly..lol

Contrary to popular opinion I don't think the boot floor does add any significant structural integrity to a discovery.
Think about it, there must be thousands of discos running around the country with boot floors having the consistency of digestive biscuit, they could have been doing this for the last ten years. Have these vehicles caused problems, have they fallen apart whilst been driven, have they been acknowledged as a safety hazard, have any warnings been issued about them, have they contributed to accidents. As far as I know, have they hell. The first time some of these corroded boot floors are found is when the contents of the boot fall through to the ground below. Given that the corrosion is so difficult to spot without some dismantling and therefore missed at MOT's these vehicles go on for years without a problem including being in accidents in which the other party usually comes in second place.
I know of no cases where a disco driver has been prosecuted for having a defective vehicle due to a corroded floor, does anybody else?
Personally I would go for replacing a corroded floor with a new replacement, probably plug welded in position but I can't see any reason why it can't be bolted in place.
Equally why there should be a problem with suitable aluminium sheet braced and bolted in place is beyond me.
Never thought of using a plastic sheet material but there is time yet.

:behindsofa:

mad mechanic · Mar 29, 2009

nicedayforit said:
Contrary to popular opinion I don't think the boot floor does add any significant structural integrity to a discovery.
Think about it, there must be thousands of discos running around the country with boot floors having the consistency of digestive biscuit, they could have been doing this for the last ten years. Have these vehicles caused problems, have they fallen apart whilst been driven, have they been acknowledged as a safety hazard, have any warnings been issued about them, have they contributed to accidents. As far as I know, have they hell. The first time some of these corroded boot floors are found is when the contents of the boot fall through to the ground below. Given that the corrosion is so difficult to spot without some dismantling and therefore missed at MOT's these vehicles go on for years without a problem including being in accidents in which the other party usually comes in second place.
I know of no cases where a disco driver has been prosecuted for having a defective vehicle due to a corroded floor, does anybody else?
Personally I would go for replacing a corroded floor with a new replacement, probably plug welded in position but I can't see any reason why it can't be bolted in place.
Equally why there should be a problem with suitable aluminium sheet braced and bolted in place is beyond me.
Never thought of using a plastic sheet material but there is time yet.

:behindsofa:

lmfao...so a square is a square even if the bottom of it missing..thats basically how it would equate in engineering terms... the range rover does have an ally floor riveted in but thats how it was constructed..the landy has a floor welded in..thats how its constructed..
So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, (even if the patch extends beyond the prescribed area) although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed. (provied the original defective panel flange has been removed)

thats the crux of the matter..original construction..it was originally constructed with a welded floor..but i have to say some of the riveted panels i have seen done on various forums look the business but sadly would not hold up in a collision as well as a welded floor would if the vehicle rolled over. why take the risk just weld the bloody thing in. its just as easy as riveting.. mine needs doing and suffice to say it will be welded and sealed properly..but thats only cos i take precious cargo out in mine..and god forbid some dumbass causes me to roll and they get hurt.. i would never forgive my self..and as has been seen in a recent case..(you all know the one) a poor repair can be fatal..

but each to there own..if ya wanna rivet..go ahead but just dont bring it to me for an mot..it will fail

ound:

again rant over..lol

v8 disco biscuit · Mar 29, 2009

The boot floor saga pops up every couple of months and every time it does, there's always some that say it's not an MOT failure. Someone even said they had repaired there's with marine ply!

Every MOT tester that I've spoken to says the boot floor is a definite MOT issue. Mine failed on it last year but from reading other people's comments, some testers seem to pass holed floors.

If you do put a new floor in and you want to do it to MOT standard, it needs to be continuously welded or spot welded in the same way as the original which is difficult to do. It's best to do a continuous weld - it doesn't take that long to do it. It's about 2 hours of welding. I suppose if you do the repair before the MOT, you could rivet it and use underseal so the tester would be none the wiser but my advice is weld.

richardfarrington · Jan 20, 2010

Wow. What happened to the fuel lines, tank and electric cables and brake lines so close to all that heat.
Ive just done mine with a replacement pan 52 quid from K. Gotts . Took me around 8 hours over a couple of days. Removing corroded floor and prepping for the new one took a while but it fitted fine. I mig tacked every couple of inches and plug welded onto cross members.
Glad its done as I had been putting it off. Also gave me the opportunity to Jenolite and paint light corrosion on top of chassis and generally learn s/thing about the machine. Driving around without the floor-pan in slush made me realise how noisy the td5 is.

mickdj · Jan 20, 2010

mine needs doing but it gos beond the pannle so i was gonna big sheet of steel and make some new cross members and cut some new bits of plate to put underneath for the seat belts, did consider cutting it all out and riviting a big sheet of chequer plate in but i think im goin of that idea now.

vivnap · Jan 21, 2010

doin the boot floor replacment properly is probably quicker than a load of seam welded patches all over the place and it looks good to even if the carpet hides it.

drilling out the spot welds then spotting the new boot floor back in is a doddle to do. they dont need to be seam welded.

offroader84 · Jan 21, 2010

believe it or not i took mine for a mot with the floor like this and nothing was said about it,it passed so i weren't going to argue it anyway a few weeks later i took it to another garage and asked them to check and they said it should never of passed as the rear floor and x members need to be replaced and welded in which is what im going to do to be on the safe side.

atb lee

Zaphod · May 16, 2010

I've got this problem with my RRC, ('92 with steel floor) so I am cutting it out and repalceing it with a proper alloy one pop rived it as it was originally. Thats what I would do get an old rangie floor cut it down and pop rivet that in. It's how it was originally desigend, so the structural integrety will not be compramised (given the disco is a reshelled RRC and uses the RRC floorpan). Only reason it was changed was cost cutting. Should the car ever be hit, there is more than enough steel in the chassis to stop the boot floor being riveted in ever bing an issue, certainly there do not seem to be any issues with old pre '92 rangies folding up when hit in the rear..

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