Which one? I thought a few had chipped in with the 'best' solutions ... But you don't want extreme, so in my view the 'best' for what you say you want is what I put, standard small dislocators, you ain't gonna get much more dislocation from a virtually standard setup.
The diffs, could be anything, maybe detroits, maybe 'another company lsd' ....
The diffs, could be anything, maybe detroits, maybe 'another company lsd' ....
towsey956
Well-Known Member
Yeah sorry not very well written, I ment the diffs. I think il have a quick look at wot I said about fabbing the turrets but I ain't holding my breath, would be good to make use out of the left over parts...and save a few quid tho.
I don't know which diffs are locked but then click when turning tight, and which ones are basically open until the time arises and they are 'set off' sort of thing. I've heard detroit truetrac being mentioned as good but is detroit locker the same thing?
Cheers
Towsey
I don't know which diffs are locked but then click when turning tight, and which ones are basically open until the time arises and they are 'set off' sort of thing. I've heard detroit truetrac being mentioned as good but is detroit locker the same thing?
Cheers
Towsey
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
There is quite a lot of different names banded about. Have a look at the Ashcroft transmissions website. They have a page on diffs which has a lot of good info.
In summary there 2 main types of diff as well as open diffs
1. Locking diffs. For Land Rover use these are open like a standard diff. Until you lock them. Most are air operated and will need an on board compressor. But there are electronic activated ones and on other makes even hydraulic.
There are many different makes of lockers. ARB are probably the most well known in the Landy world with their “air lockers”. Ashcroft offer a cheaper and arguably better alternative.
Full lockers are good as they make both wheels on an axle rotate at the same time. But you can’t use them on the road and when in use will massively increase your turning circle.
2. Next up you have limited slip differentials (LSD). There are clutch plate ones and viscous ones. But neither are ideal for a Land Rover. The other type of LSD is known as an ATB, or Automatic Torque Biasing. Sometimes called a TorSen (torque sensing), although technically the latter is a brand. These are fully mechanical and very effective. These will allow a bit of slip so you can use them on the road. But will make both wheels spin when slippery. This makes them ideal for a Land Rover. They will give you more traction on tarmac such as in the wet or snow. And will work wonders off road too. For rock crawling or extreme mudding a full locker will not have the initial slip. But unless you have an extreme need for lockers, an ATB is likely to perform equally as well and better in many situations. The only thing they aren’t so good at is if you have wheels high in the air, as they need some torque in order to work. However left foot braking can easily over come this.
The best thing is, you don’t need to think about using them. They are there working all the time, no need to wait until you get stuck as with a full locker. You will also retain your normal turning circle too.
Again, many different brands. But I would personally recommend the Ashcroft ATB. Not only are they the most cost effective. But they are designed specifically for Land Rovers and normal Land Rover use. They also have demonstrated themselves to be very reliable.
“Detroit” is a brand/make of diffs. Their True-Trac is an ATB. But will cost more than an Ashcroft ATB.
The “Detroit locker” is something different entirely. The brand is still Detroit. This really belongs in the first camp as a full locker. Although it’s name is misleading. It is actually an automatic unlocking diff. This means it is locked in normal use. And unlocks when it detects you are cornering at speed. It is fully mechanical and durable. But suits heavier longer wheel base vehciles the most. And can feel a bit odd on road as it unlocks and locks again. And while it can be run in a front axle, normally lends itself better to the rear, non steering axle due to its unlocking/locking behaviour.
Advantages are again no user intervention required. And no air compressor or electric supply needed.
Many people mix Detroit locker, true Trac and air lockers up.
For your use my opinion would be an ATB would be the way to go.
Yeah, Detroit locker for the rear, Detroit True Trac for the front. Basically they're usually off, and work as an open diff but the mechanism inside works when there's a wheel speed difference and they tighten up until they lock. The clicking, sometimes banging, is when they 'let go' coming out of the corner that's made them lock up, to release the tension.
True trac is similar but different and more applicable to fronts, it's more of a limited slip than a locking diff, never reaching full diff lockup, hence it's front bias. Don't put a Detroit on the front, you'll have trouble in the corners with the steering basically washing out and carrying straight on!
They can be fooled into locking by spinning up the revs and left foot braking, but don't need tricks as they work with a difference in wheel speed, so any slip off-road makes them lock.
True trac is similar but different and more applicable to fronts, it's more of a limited slip than a locking diff, never reaching full diff lockup, hence it's front bias. Don't put a Detroit on the front, you'll have trouble in the corners with the steering basically washing out and carrying straight on!
They can be fooled into locking by spinning up the revs and left foot braking, but don't need tricks as they work with a difference in wheel speed, so any slip off-road makes them lock.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Detroit rear, True Trac front was the set-up on my Ninety, and it was fantastic off road, and no problem on the road, but maybe wore tyres a bit more than open diffs. I loved it, mainly because it was so simple, nothing at all except the diffs, no extra controls.
On my series, I had ARBs, bit more fiddly, and I found the compressor weak, although I think they have improved since, main advantage of the ARBs was no effect at all on on road handling.
For the occasional off roader, I think LSDs front and rear, like two True Tracs, would be a great set up.
If I wanted to build an all out off roader, expense no object, I would get Quaife diffs, although they are arms and legs. They are supposed to be great quality.
I always thought the Detroits were effectiely an open diff that locked up fully with different wheel speeds and unlocked as speeds evened out again.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Think that is right. Foot off the accelerator it behaves like an open diff, foot hard down, and a bit of wheelspin, it locks solid. The True Trac is an LSD, mine was 85% limited slip, I think other ratios were available.
I never had to look into the technicalities too much, as they always worked faultlessly. I just bolted them in,and off I went. The diff centres were massive, far more metal on them than a standard diff.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
This vid explains better than I can. It is speed sensing. So it’s locked nearly all the time. Only cornering on high traction surfaces will it unlock.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Interesting vid, not seen that before.
He didn't seem to talk much about what happened when It unlocked, though. I know they do unlock, because the cornering was fairly unaffected by my locker.
towsey956
Well-Known Member
Thanks again people
I think I already had the basics and I thought an ATB would be the thing for me but I didn't know if they all worked the same and if they all had the same basic characteristics. It is important that it drives on the road as a normal open diff would especially on slippy surfaces like snow etc, mainly cos I don't want the effect of being in a rear wheel drive car when the missus us using it, and I'm happy to swap that for maybe having to left foot brake a bit to lock it up and keep going off road, I think this must of been what I saw on the video I mentioned before
So do the Detroit truetrac and Ashcroft atb work the same then, it just seems cheap for an Ashcroft product?
Thanks
Towsey
I think I already had the basics and I thought an ATB would be the thing for me but I didn't know if they all worked the same and if they all had the same basic characteristics. It is important that it drives on the road as a normal open diff would especially on slippy surfaces like snow etc, mainly cos I don't want the effect of being in a rear wheel drive car when the missus us using it, and I'm happy to swap that for maybe having to left foot brake a bit to lock it up and keep going off road, I think this must of been what I saw on the video I mentioned before
So do the Detroit truetrac and Ashcroft atb work the same then, it just seems cheap for an Ashcroft product?
Thanks
Towsey
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
Yep true Trac is an ATB. The Ashcroft is arguably a better designed. As Ashcroft looked at the weak points of the true Trac.
Good info here. Make sure you view the desktop version. Not the mobile version of the site. The latter doesn’t have the text.
https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/limited-slip-differentials.html
Good info here. Make sure you view the desktop version. Not the mobile version of the site. The latter doesn’t have the text.
https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/limited-slip-differentials.html
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Ashcroft looks good value as well. My Detroits were more than that when I bought them ten years ago.
Turboman
Mab An Gov
Go for it. You will be pleased.
Landrovers should have had locking diffs as standard, at least in the rear axle. Jeep, Daihatsu, and other Jap 4wd did, and then Landrover were surprised that they took market share.
towsey956
Well-Known Member
Well I've always said that I would like one, but I thought I would end up with a truetrac, so have yours needed any repairs or maintenance in the 10 years then?
After useing a discovery with a very articulate kit I realised that as said before a lot of articulation is brilliant and stable and it's impressive when the body stays pretty much level but when you look the axles are all over the place doing all the work...but...it still doesn't get you everywhere, once a wheel or two go light, well, we all know how it goes.
Plus I'm also saving for a new rifle and scope which aren't cheap as I'm sure some of you know
And then this little lady arrived a few weeks ago as well, so all in all there's not a lot of spare cash around at the moment
After useing a discovery with a very articulate kit I realised that as said before a lot of articulation is brilliant and stable and it's impressive when the body stays pretty much level but when you look the axles are all over the place doing all the work...but...it still doesn't get you everywhere, once a wheel or two go light, well, we all know how it goes.
Plus I'm also saving for a new rifle and scope which aren't cheap as I'm sure some of you know
And then this little lady arrived a few weeks ago as well, so all in all there's not a lot of spare cash around at the moment
Turboman
Mab An Gov
No. They have been on farm work for 10 years, my ex wife still uses the vehicle on the farm now, and a bit on the road.
Change the diff oil regularly, they are a bit harder on the oil than standard diffs.
Chalky.
Well-Known Member
Mate I'm in almost an identical situation to you, my landy is my hobby as well as a much used workhorse. I cant just spend whatever I want on it, which is why I bought one Ashcroft ATB for now, which I installed in the rear diff. Last year we had enormous amounts of snow, and it totally came into its own. Where you'd get some slight wheel spin offroad or on a particular greenlane section, you just drive on through! I've also had it totally crossaxled, with one rear tyre completely off the ground in the air, and a little left foot braking and playing gently with the throttle has seen me through! Absolutely fantastic bits of kit, my next upgrade when funds (and Mrs) allow will be one for the front diff! Highly recommended! And you'll have some fun!!
