Nodge68 · Oct 23, 2020

Hippo said:
Loads of people have done a full fluid change on the jatco without problems.

You mean Asian don't you.

Hippo said:
I remember to saying previously the trailer was above the weight of the towing capacity of the FL1, as well as going up hill?

It was over the weight of the trailer, but well under the 2000kg towing capacity of the FL1.

The insurance you're thinking of caused the TC clutch to shudder when it engaged. The 4th gear flare came later, after I'd changed the 2/4 duty solenoid and flushed the box with new fluid.

Hippo · Oct 23, 2020

Nodge68 said:
You mean Asian don't you.

It was over the weight of the trailer, but well under the 2000kg towing capacity of the FL1.

The insurance you're thinking of caused the TC clutch to shudder when it engaged. The 4th gear flare came later, after I'd changed the 2/4 duty solenoid and flushed the box with new fluid.

Aisin. They're a japanese company who make the auto in the FL2.

Peeps have been doing the gibbons full flush method for many years on the FL1 jatco without trouble. Naturally there's always something that can go wrong with anything you do. Gibbon was on the volvo forum who worked out the method to do it by disconnecting the pipes to pump the oil in/out to get a full change, many years ago. When the oil comes out clean they assume it's had a full flush of the old oil, which is what they wanted. Essentially putting in 8L of clean oil in to force out the old then setting the level correct after pipes are put back. I've seen others talk about doing the same to the aisin in the FL2 online, but to other vehicles it's also used in. New fluid puts new cleaner in. So there's an assumption it may clean too harshly if replacing all the fluid. Hence a partial change is a softer approach to take.

Turboman · Oct 23, 2020

Hippo said:
Aisin. They're a japanese company who make the auto in the FL2.

Peeps have been doing the gibbons full flush method for many years on the FL1 jatco without trouble. Naturally there's always something that can go wrong with anything you do. Gibbon was on the volvo forum who worked out the method to do it by disconnecting the pipes to pump the oil in/out to get a full change, many years ago. When the oil comes out clean they assume it's had a full flush of the old oil, which is what they wanted. Essentially putting in 8L of clean oil in to force out the old then setting the level correct after pipes are put back. I've seen others talk about doing the same to the aisin in the FL2 online, but to other vehicles it's also used in. New fluid puts new cleaner in. So there's an assumption it may clean too harshly if replacing all the fluid. Hence a partial change is a softer approach to take.

Aisin are a very good autobox, also used in Fords. Some Fords have Getrag autobox, but they are lots of trouble.
Aisin don't put much load on the fluid, and there is a lot of fluid, which is why the partial change at intervals is quite adequate.
The filter is not a tiny particle size filter like an oil filter, more a mesh screen to pick up big bits if the box suffers major trauma, which is why there is no need to change it in normal use.
According to my mate, who works rebuilding autoboxes at a specialist in London, the partial fluid changes are a good idea, because the fluid gets dirty over time, and can knock out the sensors within the box if it gets very bad.
I used to do partial change on the Aisin box in the Mondeo, about every 40k miles, and that ran for 325,000 miles, and was still working perfectly when I scrapped the car due to total fuel injection system failure.

Hippo · Oct 24, 2020

Turboman said:
Aisin are a very good autobox, also used in Fords. Some Fords have Getrag autobox, but they are lots of trouble.
Aisin don't put much load on the fluid, and there is a lot of fluid, which is why the partial change at intervals is quite adequate.
The filter is not a tiny particle size filter like an oil filter, more a mesh screen to pick up big bits if the box suffers major trauma, which is why there is no need to change it in normal use.
According to my mate, who works rebuilding autoboxes at a specialist in London, the partial fluid changes are a good idea, because the fluid gets dirty over time, and can knock out the sensors within the box if it gets very bad.
I used to do partial change on the Aisin box in the Mondeo, about every 40k miles, and that ran for 325,000 miles, and was still working perfectly when I scrapped the car due to total fuel injection system failure.

8L seems to be typical of that size of box in the FL2. Similar size to the FL1 jatco and similar volume of oil. They do fail in the FL2 but its not a regular occurrence. Shift is smooth and i can't fault it other than the occasional rare hesitance when pulling away which is down to the electronics wondering "are you sure about that...." and then pulling away after a slight pause. Known issue and not something that bothers me. The filter reminds me of the gauze we used at school on bunson burner stands. Only finer. I think the jap's have got the knowhow when it comes to autos. They seem to lead the industry.

Turboman · Oct 24, 2020

Hippo said:
8L seems to be typical of that size of box in the FL2. Similar size to the FL1 jatco and similar volume of oil. They do fail in the FL2 but its not a regular occurrence. Shift is smooth and i can't fault it other than the occasional rare hesitance when pulling away which is down to the electronics wondering "are you sure about that...." and then pulling away after a slight pause. Known issue and not something that bothers me. The filter reminds me of the gauze we used at school on bunson burner stands. Only finer. I think the jap's have got the knowhow when it comes to autos. They seem to lead the industry.

My Aisin was lovely. It could change gear better than I can, and had a Sport option where you could drive it like a manual without a clutch, although I didn't use it very often, performance in Drive was quite adequate.

Never had a Jatco, as far as I can remember, so not really able to comment on those.

Hippo · Oct 24, 2020

Turboman said:
My Aisin was lovely. It could change gear better than I can, and had a Sport option where you could drive it like a manual without a clutch, although I didn't use it very often, performance in Drive was quite adequate.

Never had a Jatco, as far as I can remember, so not really able to comment on those.

Both the FL 1 and 2 have the same setup. Normal auto and sport, with manual up/down selection anorl. Have to admit the FL2 feels like the gears are longer/higher than normal. Changing to 3rd at 25mph in relaxed droving. 400nm of torque so will will be using that to keep things relaxed and moving with low revs. Sport just means it drops a gears and revs a bit higher in order to take oft. Overall the FL2 diesel with auto is quite good. I have the higher power SD4 option. 40 to 60mph is seemless and when eggscellerating hard, it does it at nearly half the revs of the v6 FL1. I plan to keep it a long time.

Turboman · Oct 24, 2020

Hippo said:
Both the FL 1 and 2 have the same setup. Normal auto and sport, with manual up/down selection anorl. Have to admit the FL2 feels like the gears are longer/higher than normal. Changing to 3rd at 25mph in relaxed droving. 400nm of torque so will will be using that to keep things relaxed and moving with low revs. Sport just means it drops a gears and revs a bit higher in order to take oft. Overall the FL2 diesel with auto is quite good. I have the higher power SD4 option. 40 to 60mph is seemless and when eggscellerating hard, it does it at nearly half the revs of the v6 FL1. I plan to keep it a long time.

The sport option on my Mondeo meant you could hold it in any gear as long as you wanted, then lift your foot, and change up using the stick.
The only time I used to use it was before MOT test, get the revs up to clear the system out before the emissions test.

norseman · Oct 24, 2020

You could write a book on the subject of auto fluid/filter changes, all a peep like me, who has owned various autos back to the 1960's, can do is outline their own experiences.
I owned an '06 Mondeo with the 2.0L petrol & Jatco auto for 84k over a period of 9 years. There is well documented opinion that the 'box used in this application is on borrowed time after 80k, which worried me at the time … I needn't have done as the car had covered 170k when sold last year, still running well. As far as I know the 'box had never been serviced, certainly not in my ownership.

rob1miles · Oct 25, 2020

My experience with Mercs (always auto) is "leave well alone". I sold my W124 with 220k on it and gave the new auto box oil and filter to the new owner. Bought them to change at 200k and never got round to it.

Hippo · Oct 25, 2020

norseman said:
You could write a book on the subject of auto fluid/filter changes, all a peep like me, who has owned various autos back to the 1960's, can do is outline their own experiences.
I owned an '06 Mondeo with the 2.0L petrol & Jatco auto for 84k over a period of 9 years. There is well documented opinion that the 'box used in this application is on borrowed time after 80k, which worried me at the time … I needn't have done as the car had covered 170k when sold last year, still running well. As far as I know the 'box had never been serviced, certainly not in my ownership.

It would have played up long before 170k miles without an oil change. Must have had an oil change before you had it. We tend to find the FL1 jatco won't get to 100k without one. They start giving strange faults around 60k to 70k miles without a partial change. Sometimes a bit earlier. The partial change has been known to solve all sorts of strange problems so we do it every 60k miles.

norseman · Oct 31, 2020

Hippo said:
It would have played up long before 170k miles without an oil change. Must have had an oil change before you had it

You may well be right, just that there was nothing mentioned on the invoices I got with the car. Imaterial anyway as the car has been gone for 18 months.
Thanks for your comment though.

Nodge68

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