If we believe what the additive adverts say and use them all in our engines will the engines last forever
Slick 50 made amazing statements about their product in the 70/80s but when the Americans took them to court in the late nineties they had to withdraw the statements change their adverts and pay a settlement.

There is an argument for adding a higher viscosity oil (or similar additive) in as much as the thicker it is, the less likely it is to drain out of worn components such as bearings and valve cups etc, however this would involve more effort on oil pumps etc to push it around the system, and would onl;y make the engine quieter, not reduce the wear. A case of treating the symptoms, not the cause, of a problem.
It can also be proven that some metals have a tendency to "attach" themselves to others at a molecular level (copper for example in copperslip) so that certain metals held in suspension might attach themselves to worn components in an engine. Whether they "add" themselves sufficiently to make any noticeable improvement has yet to be proved to me. The addition of a couple of molecule thicknesses if any metal to a worn bore or big end bearing is unlikely to make any significant difference whatsoever.
If you were to use these additives at the begining of the engine life, I suppose it might extend the engines life as the wear might be reduced, but there are a lot of ifs!

The Mad Hat Man said:

There is an argument for adding a higher viscosity oil (or similar additive) in as much as the thicker it is, the less likely it is to drain out of worn components such as bearings and valve cups etc, however this would involve more effort on oil pumps etc to push it around the system, and would onl;y make the engine quieter, not reduce the wear. A case of treating the symptoms, not the cause, of a problem.
It can also be proven that some metals have a tendency to "attach" themselves to others at a molecular level (copper for example in copperslip) so that certain metals held in suspension might attach themselves to worn components in an engine. Whether they "add" themselves sufficiently to make any noticeable improvement has yet to be proved to me. The addition of a couple of molecule thicknesses if any metal to a worn bore or big end bearing is unlikely to make any significant difference whatsoever.
If you were to use these additives at the begining of the engine life, I suppose it might extend the engines life as the wear might be reduced, but there are a lot of ifs!

Click to expand...

Using a THICKER oil is usually a mistake, because the FLOW will be markedly reduced, the strain on the oil pump drive may be hugely increased (it may even shear) and those can have seriously bad effects. An example of that would be to use EP90 in a R380 gearbox - failure of the box would be a certainty in short order. Best by far to stick with more or less the recommended viscosity grades and oil types, or BETTER types and grades than those. For example, using an engine oil recommended for a petrol engine in a turbo diesel might not do a lot of good in the long run, but using a turbo-diesel engine oil in a petrol engine would be an UPgrade.

Common sense should tell us what's good and what isn't.

The best system is to use a really good economy priced oil, and change it at reasonable intervals. Changing the oil is the ONE really effective way of REMOVING all the acids, crap, carbon-black, metal particles, and other gunge from the insides of the engine, like you get the engine good and hot, undo the drain plug, and drain the whole lot out. Then you replace the drain plug (I mention this because I once forgot!) and tip in a gallon of lovely clean oil.

There is ONE truly excellent additive substance that does work, and that is molybdenum disulphide - Moly-Slip and things like that, which are based on MoS2. Almost all engines and gearboxes and axles will benefit from these, but NEVER use it in an automatic gearbox.

Assembly paste Rocol MT-LM is superb. Every engine builder should be using that on all bearings and moving parts as the engine is built-up. MT-LM is about 60% molybdenum disulphide.

CharlesY

I agree entirely, CharlesY - my comment was only to state that a thicker oil would not drain from (say) rocker cup quite so quickly. I was not advocating it, mind you - I believe the old STP was an MS held in suspension in some form of thick "gloop".

Hi charlesY, Why would putting diesel oil in a petrol be beneficial but not the other way round? is diesel oil more "heavy duty" or something? i know nothing about diesels. Just really intregued, Cheers.

mrnice said:

Hi charlesY, Why would putting diesel oil in a petrol be beneficial but not the other way round? is diesel oil more "heavy duty" or something? i know nothing about diesels. Just really intregued, Cheers.

Click to expand...

YES,

The oils for petrol engines are pretty basic compared to the oils for Turbo diesels.

Petrol engine oils have a much easier life, and operate in much nicer conditions than the "brute force and ignorance" involved in turbo diesels!

One of the great advantages built-in to turbo diesel lube oils is the ability to hold more crap in suspension for longer periods, and so when you drain those oils out, you physically remove more of the crappy stuff from the insides of the engine. Apart from that, the additives are different, and the whole thing adds up to Turbo Diesel Engine Oils being "better and tougher and longer lasting" than oils that only need to deal with a little petrol motor.

I use tractor universal turbo diesel oil in ALL the machines here, TD5 Disco, 200tdi, 300tdi, 2.5TD, dumpers, tractor, digger, cars, lawnmowers, the whole lot!

Tractor Universal can be bought in 210 litre drums like I get, 25 litres drums, and costs under £2 a litre for sure. Compare that to Synthetic at Halfrauds!

CharlesY

is this the stuff? universal tractor oil, Vehicle Parts Accessories, Business, Office Industrial, Collectables items at low prices on eBay.co.uk
I dont seem to be able to find any 10w/40 though.

mrnice said:

is this the stuff? universal tractor oil, Vehicle Parts Accessories, Business, Office Industrial, Collectables items at low prices on eBay.co.uk
I dont seem to be able to find any 10w/40 though.

Click to expand...

You may not find 10W/40 TUO, but so what?

Are you going to the tropics where the ambient temperature will be 100°F?

10W/30 would be great, and in summer maybe use the 15W/30 grade if you felt like it. Maybe use the 15w/30 summer and winter like I do?

These oils are designed to be FARMER-PROOF!
You get the idea?
If it needs oil, the farmer will find a can of oil and pour it in the hole.
Grade? Wot's that? It's oil innit?
That is why the oil companies invented Tractor Universal!
If the farmer only has ONE can of oil, he would be bound to use it.


Ovoline 586 as one example of many ....

586 SUPER UNIVERSAL TRACTOR OIL is blended
from high quality base stocks and a superior additive
package to provide a product which is particularly fluid
at low temperatures and yet will give maximum
protection to bearings and other working surfaces at
high operating temperatures.

What more could we ask for?

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

You may not find 10W/30 TUO, but so what?

Are you going to the tropics where the ambient temperature will be 100°F?

10W/30 would be great, and in summer maybe use the 15W/30 grade if you felt like it. Maybe use the 15w/30 summer and winter like I do?

These oils are designed to be FARMER-PROOF!
You get the idea?
If it needs oil, the farmer will find a can of oil and pour it in the hole.
Grade? Wot's that? It's oil innit?
That is why the oil companies invented Tractor Universal!
If the farmer only has ONE can of oil, he would be bound to use it.


Ovoline 586 as one example of many ....

586 SUPER UNIVERSAL TRACTOR OIL is blended
from high quality base stocks and a superior additive
package to provide a product which is particularly fluid
at low temperatures and yet will give maximum
protection to bearings and other working surfaces at
high operating temperatures.

What more could we ask for?

CharlesY

Click to expand...

Are you saying that farmer aka tractor boys are ignorant

CharlesY said:

You may not find 10W/30 TUO, but so what?

Are you going to the tropics where the ambient temperature will be 100°F?

10W/30 would be great, and in summer maybe use the 15W/30 grade if you felt like it. Maybe use the 15w/30 summer and winter like I do?

These oils are designed to be FARMER-PROOF!
You get the idea?
If it needs oil, the farmer will find a can of oil and pour it in the hole.
Grade? Wot's that? It's oil innit?
That is why the oil companies invented Tractor Universal!
If the farmer only has ONE can of oil, he would be bound to use it.


Ovoline 586 as one example of many ....

586 SUPER 586 SUPER UNIVERSAL TRACTOR OIL is blended
from high quality base stocks and a superior additive
package to provide a product which is particularly fluid
at low temperatures and yet will give maximum
protection to bearings and other working surfaces at
high operating temperatures.

What more could we ask for?

CharlesY

Click to expand...

No its just the haynes sais to use that grade, and when i asked the question about the magnatec oil the 10w40 was the one i was told to use, and when i asked the man at the garage. (he was selling 10w40 not tractor universal so he prob would say that) to be honest ive read a lot of your posts and u def sound like you know your stuff so i'll take your judgement on it. So UNIVERSAL TRACTOR OIL and a shot of ZX1 next oil change i think

howardo said:

Are you saying that farmer aka tractor boys are ignorant

Click to expand...

Not at all, they need to be pretty smart to make a living running a farm these days, BUT .............. are many of them engine experts, or OIL experts?

Probably not, and as most of us would struggle run farms, so the farmers will admit they ain't experts in oils and engines, and anyway, they NEED the tractor running RIGHT NOW, and the engine oil hasn't even reached the dipstick since last month and now that bloody oil light on the dash is on, and the back hydraulics have a little leak and the oil there has got so low the hydraulics don't operate, so he grabs a 25 litre can of Tractor Universal, tips a whole lot into the engine, then goes round the back and tips a whole lot more, and then a bit more for luck, into the hydraulics, and off he goes to get his work done, so we can eat.

THAT is what a good universal oil can do.

CharlesY

CharlesY said:

Not at all, they need to be pretty smart to make a living running a farm these days, BUT .............. are many of them engine experts, or OIL experts?

Probably not, and as most of us would struggle run farms, so the farmers will admit they ain't experts in oils and engines, and anyway, they NEED the tractor running RIGHT NOW, and the engine oil hasn't even reached the dipstick since last month and now that bloody oil light on the dash is on, and the back hydraulics have a little leak and the oil there has got so low the hydraulics don't operate, so he grabs a 25 litre can of Tractor Universal, tips a whole lot into the engine, then goes round the back and tips a whole lot more, and then a bit more for luck, into the hydraulics, and off he goes to get his work done, so we can eat.

THAT is what a good universal oil can do.

CharlesY

Click to expand...

so it's idiot proof, i'm sold

Varney_James said:

so it's idiot proof, i'm sold

Click to expand...

Even better, it comes in great big cans, direct from the oil makers, does not have to carry enormous advertising costs or multiple profits though the wholesale and retail chain, which is why you can buy 25 litres of the best oil, for under £50 today.

CharlesY