After my recent thread about the troubles I had last week with my car, someone insinuated Saint.V8 sold me a lemon and hid various faults from me.

I want to make this as clear as I possibly can. The above comment could not be farther from the truth. In fact, the above comment is horse****.

To clear things up once and for all I am posting this open thread.

In February this year I expressed a desire to purchase an L322 Vogue. Several people replied giving advice, one of them being @Saint.V8. He mentioned he might be willing to sell his if I was interested. He sent me a private message with all the relevant details.

A few people saw his reply and immediately interjected and told me I would be an idiot if I didn't buy it. Saint is the best, buy it now etc etc.

Now, I mean no disrespect to any of you, but this was my first foray into the Range Rover side of LZ and as such, I had no reason to trust anything any of you said, Saint included.

In order to guage who to believe and listen to, I wanted to educate myself about this side of the forum. Because of what was said about him, I read every post of Saints. Not a few, not a lot, all of them. I then read loads of posts by the other most vocal people in my initial thread.

I knew I could trust the opinions of those who told me I should buy Saints car and I knew I could trust Saint when he told me about it.

We had a few email conversations about the car. He told me all about it. Everything.

I was told all the work Saint had done on the car. I was also told everything which needed doing mechanically and cosmetically. This was all before I arranged to see her.

When I arrived to see it, Saint told me everything about the car. We had a very detailed discussion about the differences between the different models, the mechanical work he had done and what jobs he knew needed to be done.

Saint took me over the car from bonnet to boot telling me everything there was to know about it. We then got inside and he talked me through the paper service history. I was shown how to use all the different features and what each thing did. Saint even showed me all the GPS and DSP stuff behind the panels in the boot. In 20 years of buying cars, not one seller has ever been as detailed as Saint was. He literally could not have given me more information if he tried.

I made the decision to buy it after a detailed test drive. I knew exactly what worked, what didn't and what mechanical work needed to be done.

Let's talk about that for a second.

Things I was informed didn't work before I came to see it:
Air con
Heated steering wheel
Rear wiper

Things I discovered didn't work during the test drive:
Air con
Heated steering wheel
Rear wiper

Things I was told were damaged before I came to see it:
Drivers seat switch Valence trim
Scratch on drivers side door

Things I discovered were damaged during the test drive:
Drivers seat switch Valence trim
Scratch on drivers side door

I was so happy with the car I didn't even try and barter. I paid the full cash price as requested. I always barter. I've never, ever paid the sticker price when buying a car. This is the only time I've ever paid the price the seller asked for. That's how happy I was.

Said told me that even though the car was now my property, he wasn't going to walk away from it. He told me if I had any questions or problems, I should ask him. I have done so, in public and private and Saint has always been happy to answer everything.

I cannot reiterate this enough. I knew exactly what I was buying. I knew what needed to be fixed. I knew an approximate cost to do so. I knew all this because Saint was clear about it from the start.

I have never met a car seller as honest as Saint. I will happily buy another car from him in the future. I will happily trust his judgement about any matter concerning this car, engine, gearbox etc.

I absolutely trust Saints judgement. I trust in his integrity. You should too as you have for so long already.

Pluribus said:

After my recent thread about the troubles I had last week with my car, someone insinuated Saint.V8 sold me a lemon and hid various faults from me.

I want to make this as clear as I possibly can. The above comment could not be farther from the truth. In fact, the above comment is horse****.

To clear things up once and for all I am posting this open thread.

In February this year I expressed a desire to purchase an L322 Vogue. Several people replied giving advice, one of them being @Saint.V8. He mentioned he might be willing to sell his if I was interested. He sent me a private message with all the relevant details.

A few people saw his reply and immediately interjected and told me I would be an idiot if I didn't buy it. Saint is the best, buy it now etc etc.

Now, I mean no disrespect to any of you, but this was my first foray into the Range Rover side of LZ and as such, I had no reason to trust anything any of you said, Saint included.

In order to guage who to believe and listen to, I wanted to educate myself about this side of the forum. Because of what was said about him, I read every post of Saints. Not a few, not a lot, all of them. I then read loads of posts by the other most vocal people in my initial thread.

I knew I could trust the opinions of those who told me I should buy Saints car and I knew I could trust Saint when he told me about it.

We had a few email conversations about the car. He told me all about it. Everything.

I was told all the work Saint had done on the car. I was also told everything which needed doing mechanically and cosmetically. This was all before I arranged to see her.

When I arrived to see it, Saint told me everything about the car. We had a very detailed discussion about the differences between the different models, the mechanical work he had done and what jobs he knew needed to be done.

Saint took me over the car from bonnet to boot telling me everything there was to know about it. We then got inside and he talked me through the paper service history. I was shown how to use all the different features and what each thing did. Saint even showed me all the GPS and DSP stuff behind the panels in the boot. In 20 years of buying cars, not one seller has ever been as detailed as Saint was. He literally could not have given me more information if he tried.

I made the decision to buy it after a detailed test drive. I knew exactly what worked, what didn't and what mechanical work needed to be done.

Let's talk about that for a second.

Things I was informed didn't work before I came to see it:
Air con
Heated steering wheel
Rear wiper

Things I discovered didn't work during the test drive:
Air con
Heated steering wheel
Rear wiper

Things I was told were damaged before I came to see it:
Drivers seat switch Valence trim
Scratch on drivers side door

Things I discovered were damaged during the test drive:
Drivers seat switch Valence trim
Scratch on drivers side door

I was so happy with the car I didn't even try and barter. I paid the full cash price as requested. I always barter. I've never, ever paid the sticker price when buying a car. This is the only time I've ever paid the price the seller asked for. That's how happy I was.

Said told me that even though the car was now my property, he wasn't going to walk away from it. He told me if I had any questions or problems, I should ask him. I have done so, in public and private and Saint has always been happy to answer everything.

I cannot reiterate this enough. I knew exactly what I was buying. I knew what needed to be fixed. I knew an approximate cost to do so. I knew all this because Saint was clear about it from the start.

I have never met a car seller as honest as Saint. I will happily buy another car from him in the future. I will happily trust his judgement about any matter concerning this car, engine, gearbox etc.

I absolutely trust Saints judgement. I trust in his integrity. You should too as you have for so long already.

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It's always the same when buying any second hand goods, vehicles included, some you win, some you loose. You had as much information as you felt you needed, liked the RR, made an informed adult decision and bought it. How could anybody hold the seller responsible unless he held a gun to your head and demanded you buy the RR. I'll venture he feels badly for the whole situation, but it is just how stuff happens sometime. It has all become a bit public with the story from go to woe being on this forum.
And so it goes, "caveat emptor", let the buyer beware, or so I believe.

Pluribus said:

After my recent thread about the troubles I had last week with my car, someone insinuated Saint.V8 sold me a lemon and hid various faults from me

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I didn't see anyone making such a claim in your main "want to watch an L322 burn" thread?

I made a comical reference about Saint ruining the car with devotion, someone made a comment about you being a drama queen, but 99% of the replies you received were positive and sympathetic regarding your woes.
Wazzajnr made an early bid to relieve you of your troubles, albeit before the crankshaft went south....


If anyone dented Saints honour it was you with your vilification of the car, and by association said forum member.
This new thread ought have been titled....
"My apology to Saint, by Pluribus"

I'm sure Saint has/will bestow a dignified pardon upon you, but don't patronise him, or us for that matter.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/anyone-want-to-watch-an-l322-burn.319825/

I sold a rover75 diesel to a very good friend(best man) put in a new rear fuel pump cost me a packet. Anyways the bloody clutch went 600 + pounds, more than the car was worth. I was so embarSsed but he said he liked the car and had the work done and is still driving it now! But I still cringe and would not again sell a car to a friend on principal!

Every credit to you @Pluribus

myfirstl322 said:

I didn't see anyone making such a claim in your main "want to watch an L322 burn" thread?

I made a comical reference about Saint ruining the car with devotion, someone made a comment about you being a drama queen, but 99% of the replies you received were positive and sympathetic regarding your woes.
Wazzajnr made an early bid to relieve you of your troubles, albeit before the crankshaft went south....


If anyone dented Saints honour it was you with your vilification of the car, and by association said forum member.
This new thread ought have been titled....
"My apology to Saint, by Pluribus"

I'm sure Saint has/will bestow a dignified pardon upon you, but don't patronise him, or us for that matter.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/anyone-want-to-watch-an-l322-burn.319825/

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I think under the circumstances, that's a tad harsh.
To be fair to @Pluribus he has defended @Saint.V8 all the way through his other post.
My guess is that the original post (both title and content) were a kneejerk reaction to the frustration these cars can deal out and was originally supposed to be a cry for help on the issues he was having.
Then the dreaded engine gave out and the post turned into a bit of a monster.
My personal view is that @Pluribus has done the right thing in this post as other new forum members may not know about the banter on here and read things the wrong way.
My only hope is that he gets it back soon and someone can find a decent cheap second hand lump to drop in it.
It would be such a great shame if the hard work and cash they have both thrown at this car ended up in the scrapyard.

I don't think there's an issue, it's clear the vehicle was sold honestly and with openness.

What happened was plain bad luck and doesn't reflect on anyone's integrity.

its about time to let this drop. it was no-ones fault s@it happens.

Next time you have a silly idea like that, just burn a stack of £20 notes and cut out the middle man. Use an accelerant though, I find twenties a bugger to get going

Wazzajnr said:

I think under the circumstances, that's a tad harsh. Intentional, my view but without malice.
To be fair to @Pluribus he has defended @Saint.V8 all the way through his other post. Agreed. No need for extra fawning.
My guess is that the original post (both title and content) were a kneejerk reaction to the frustration these cars can deal out and was originally supposed to be a cry for help on the issues he was having.
Then the dreaded engine gave out and the post turned into a bit of a monster.
My personal view is that @Pluribus has done the right thing in this post as other new forum members may not know about the banter on here and read things the wrong way. I very much doubt it.
My only hope is that he gets it back soon and someone can find a decent cheap second hand lump to drop in it.
It would be such a great shame if the hard work and cash they have both thrown at this car ended up in the scrapyard.I agree wholeheartedly. £35k and counting!!

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I posted my mild rebuke after scanning the original thread for any mention of the word lemon, or any implied reference to the same, Zilch, Zero, Nada. We all knew it was Saint's car and we posted accordingly.
It would of been so different if he'd bought it on ebay, our answers would have been much more colourful.
This debacle is what it is, pure bad luck.
Lets all get back to the main thread and stop this unnecessary bolstering of Saint, he's a big boy who's standing was never in question.

I never took it the way that there was any unhappiness with the transaction.

I've taken it that you are beyond frustrated with the L322, and we all feel your pain on that.

having not just followed Saint on this forum, but i've met him, we pulled the engine on my Suffix A together, he's rebuilt it for me out of love for V8's. as you say he is a spot on guy and I trust his opinion and work and friendship.

I've also followed Saint's work on the L322, he fell in love with the L322 passing a trader and went for it. as you know Saint has done a lot of work on the L322 bringing it up to the standard he expects, and his standards are high. and yes saint did have a few issues with it, but worked hard to sort them.

I imagine that before both you and saint took ownership of the vehicle there was some issue underlying it even had a replacement engine courtesy of LR. Like yourself and every other reader we would have gone for this L322 being a sorted V8.

unless we know the previous owners from new, we'll never know how a RR has been maintained in its previous years, but to me it seems that there *had to be something going on with a previous owner's maintenance or the maintenance provider used, as its now gone through two engines (though the second failure is yet to be confirmed).

my heart really does drop for you, My P38 after 6+ years of ownership has been cracking. though from march this year, it's tested my patience, from no7 cyl blowing leading to do a head block up rebuild, replacing everything that needed it, the sodding heater matrix went, so that went to MArtyn to do full on job )I still have no book symbol on the HVAC yay!).. then the battery after 6 years started to get weak and having enough charge to turn over, I suspect from a faulty alternator regulator, both were replaced.. then the cats started rattling.. so I ordered a new cat, dropped the old one off to fit the new one... which didn't fit as the downpipe flange on the right bank was welded crooked so didn't marry up. it was returned and I ordered elsewhere. it arrived fitted, turned the engine over and both cats got so hot they glowed. so that was removed and returned.. the next replacement went on turned it over .. puff puff sound look underneath and the right side seam on the cat is wide open.. a bad weld.. now this is the pair of cats.. F**k thinks I I get the welder out and run a seam down down the failed weld.. yay ! now it runs quiet.. two weeks later.. the left cat is rattling like a tin of marbles.. it runs fun.. its just the core is loose.. i'm currently awaiting the delivery of cats number 4.

these are all british made branded cats. the supplier has been great in replacing.. as he said he's sold hundreds over the years and never have a faulty one I've had two.. after the first failure from the overheat he switched supplier and also sent me two O2 sensors FOC and replacing the rattly one without any debate or fuss. i'll definitely be using him for parts in the future.

the point its, yes they can test us, and we can be unlucky and have a rare failure or two ... or 3....
in your position I think I would just a warrantied used engine for 1700, throw it in and just motor on at least you'll have a period with an engine under warranty.. till the gearbox goes...

we can all be told these are luxury cars that cost x.. need to be maintained... etc etc.. it doesn't stop that pain.

i'm sure saint is dismayed at what has turned out, he's taken a lot of pride in the L322 as you have. maybe that block if it is DOA when you get it has just been a bad lump that coincidentally replaced a previous bad lump.

just be aware of a couple of things.. no one thinks any less of saint or you, we've all had those moments where if the RR was a horse we would have taken it out back and shot it.. me included this year, and finally we're all here to help and stay by a fellow RR owner and do what we can. Bike Teacher Dave has driven round from Kent a few times to give me a hand, and I could never thank him enough.. he's also been my sponsor in dealing with addiction to RR's

many on this forum have jumped in and pitched in with advice over the years ive been here.. in many cases I would have gone bonkers without the fellows LZer's and I thank each of them and can only pay it forward by giving my help too. we are all here for you pluribus. you may feel you are under fire with the L322, but we are all here for you to do what we can to get your RR back where you want it to be.

cheers

It is threads like these and the posts within that make me so happy to be a member of LZ.
I am a complete novice with sophisticated cars and I am too old/infirm to do much other than open my wallet to those that can, but the content of this forum gives me a real lift.

Its a Land Rover - if something is not broken it will be. If something is not leaking it is either empty or will be soon.

No matter how hard I try to keep my car up something is always going wrong or leaking.

This forum always makes me laugh as the banter is top rate. I never took your comments other than - that is life owing a Range Rover.

It's all getting a bit touchy feely in here. The posh section was never like this in my day.
Homos

goonarmy said:

It's all getting a bit touchy feely in here. The posh section was never like this in my day.
Homos

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AAAAAARRRRRGH matey, aye, "men wuz men in days of old, when knights were bold and women weren't invented, men drilled holes in telepoles ................. ...........................", you know the rest.

I found ant a very upstanding guy, he’s helped me out I cannot remember the amount of times, no payment at all, he’s always come round to mine and never let me down he’s 100% I would go on but I’m using the phone to do this, and his money has run out for this brilliant review, this has been you’re reporter on the spot as it happens live from Cyprus dopey .... I thank you

Dopey said:

I found ant a very upstanding guy, he’s helped me out I cannot remember the amount of times, no payment at all, he’s always come round to mine and never let me down he’s 100% I would go on but I’m using the phone to do this, and his money has run out for this brilliant review, this has been you’re reporter on the spot as it happens live from Cyprus dopey .... I thank you

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Enjoy your holiday. The car will no doubt be brewing a surprise for your return, unless you took the Series to the airport?!

Saint's a saint, end of.

goonarmy said:

It's all getting a bit touchy feely in here. The posh section was never like this in my day.
Homos

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I'll be walking around with an empty ashtray down the back or my pants if it gets any more emotional.

I’m feeling the love I’m on holiday ffs.....