Bunker · Jan 11, 2011

Hi, Im new here, looking for advice please:

My Uncle has built a landy up over the last 15 years but is now tired of spending on it. He has always had any work done by a garage as he is not too mechanically minded. So Im tempted to relieve him of his machine which is quite unusual, he really wont want much, if anything, for it.. There is a fair amount of problems with it at the mo but I hope to throw some money at it and try to fix most of it myself (with help from friends). Here is the run down of what it is (written by Uncle) and a few photos. Id really appreciate your feedback:

KVL**V started as a 1979 Series 3 SWB hard-top fitted with windows. 2.25 petrol with 4-speed and Fairy overdrive. Chassis needed lots of work at rear and rear springs were not good. My friend was going to build a Bowler and got a rolling 90 chassis with defender rear axle and range rover front, giving coils all round instead of springs and 4-pot discs instead of shoes. He ran out of cash and sold it to me.

'Frogs Island 4x4' put the two lots together over several months of trial and error. Chassis shortened and plated in the middle and lengthened at the rear to take the series 88" body. Wheels are nicely centred in the wheel arches. Eyebrow extensions not fitted, tyres are slightly outside of body but actual tread is inside. (Eyebrows look silly). Battery re-positioned under passenger seat to make room for r/r power steering. Has servo brakes. Original dustbin oil filter. Engine swopped for a 2.5 petrol with unleaded conversion. 110 steering column fitted to take power steering, this is slightly longer so steering wheel is a couple of inches closer to driver. Inner wing modified accordingly.Accelerator pedal swapped for 90 to take cable. Roof lights fitted ex-disco. Swing-away rear wheel carrier fitted which has been extended to lock over door. Door is replacement 3-hinge later type (original in shed in reasonable order). Pair of roof bars which were my Dads and fitted. Front footwells were welded up a couple of years ago. Radio fitted in home-made overhead fitment.

Negative side. Petrol tank had to be cut to fit over torsion bar to rear axle and is rusted thru at neck. N/s door pillar has hole, likely need a replacement panel, they are available but once you start hacking at a 1979 bulkhead.....!!!! The exhaust is made-up from two systems: local garage made it up and they are out of business, don't know what they used (s/steel fabrication seems the answer). Water leak from engine, not found it yet but not radiator, could it be core plug?? Support bars under rear tub weak. Engine smokes a bit on start up but clears and pulls well. Gearbox and o/drive seem strong. Front military quarter bumpers are available but the front chassis sticks forward a bit and they may interfere with headlight beam so did not fit them. Suspension is heavy-duty, great when carrying but hard when not. Shocks and springs rusty, could do with new ones to set up for more comfortable road ride..Oh yes, bonnet bracing a bit rusty. Sitting on disco steel rims fitted with new Pirelli 205x16 (less than 100 miles on them).

Has MOT and tax til Sept.

I realise it will need money throwing at it, thats ok I have some project money available. Im not too worried about it showing as a '79 vehicle, its been on that plate for 15 years. Im totally new to your world but very well used to working on military motorcycles so used to the idea of scratching round for parts and 'making do' approach. Truly happy to learn everything from scratch tho.
cheers

b20wnx · Jan 11, 2011

i am no expert and by no means mechanically minded but have taken on a series 3 (check link on photo uploads for pics) - if your going to get it for next to nothing have the time and patience why not have ago..... if you dont want it i will take it off his hands (thats if its for nothing lol) could do with some parts......

oxides · Jan 11, 2011

The problem is it's not a series 3 - it's a shortened 109 with series bodywork. Eventually someone will notice...

Bunker · Jan 12, 2011

The problem is it's not a series 3 - it's a shortened 109 with series bodywork. Eventually someone will notice...

Can I ask what about that is problematic and why would it matter if someone noticed? cheers

oxides · Jan 12, 2011

'cos it's still registered as a series but it's been significantly modified without re-registering. The registraton should follow the chassis.

Bunker · Jan 12, 2011

Ah ok, point taken. I guess its been like that for 15 years with no problems yet - what problems will that cause and what must be done if I am to consider accepting the gift? Also Im interested in advice on its physical status, ie is it a reasonable configuration and what sort of work will need doing/ cost etc. As sais, Im a LR newbie but ok with spannering/ welding etc
cheers

oxides · Jan 12, 2011

Nothing wrong with the configuration but I'd sort the legalities out. Have an accident in that and all sorts of worms could wriggle out - one of them being your insurance cover.

[JP] · Jan 12, 2011

whatever you do dont take it to Newbury 4x4... rip off!!

I only go there when im in desperate need for a spare part.... and most of their stuff, if not all, its Britpart! yuck!

Mseries3 · Jan 12, 2011

oxides said:
'cos it's still registered as a series but it's been significantly modified without re-registering. The registraton should follow the chassis.

IF (Major if!) it had been done before the regulations come into force (I don't know the date.) then nothing has been done wrong. One of a few ways you can get a legit tax exempt coil sprung Series.

I suspect that the rules came into force less than 15 years ago? In which case it is fine.

Bunker · Jan 12, 2011

Alright, putting legalities and administration beside...any other comments? My bike forum (in which we have a LR section) are all saying dont touch it with a barge pole....probably because I wont have a huge amount if time to put into it (15 month old daughter etc and other projects)....they say the engine is hugely inefficient and although a Tdi isnt mega bucks, might be an arse to fit with the other parts there...maybe its a no then...

Perhaps I should look for a decent Series machine thats had the work done?

[JP] · Jan 12, 2011

bike forum? motorbike forum? with LR bit?? that's a new one for me!

what bike forum is that? i might just join!

dr pepper · Jan 12, 2011

To be legal you will probably need an engineers report that says the shortening of the chassis has been done, and the engineers report must be dated before the changes came in effect which I think was the mid 90's, I'm guessing you dont have that so there isnt really a legal way registering and insuring the vehicle, unless you put in for an sva report and get a q plate, but forget that can of worms.
Sorry to be a downer, just pointing out the sour truth.
The only thing you could do that would get around this is to replace the chassis with a proper 88" chassis, then noone would know that the old one was modded and everything would be fine.
As mentioned you could find yourself in a load of poo if you have a bump, I do all kinds of stuff that would put me in a grey area with the dvla, modding my 109 to 88 is something I wouldnt do.

Bunker · Jan 12, 2011

To be legal you will probably need an engineers report that says the shortening of the chassis has been done, and the engineers report must be dated before the changes came in effect which I think was the mid 90's, I'm guessing you dont have that so there isnt really a legal way registering and insuring the vehicle

I think we do have that, we have a report from Frogs for the work they have done, I havnt seen it yet but my Uncle is sending it over. As to registering, as mentioned a few times its been on the road for 15 years already so no prob there, maybe just a bit legally speculative then!

bike forum? motorbike forum? with LR bit?? that's a new one for me!

what bike forum is that? i might just join!

MT Riders Club

dr pepper · Jan 13, 2011

If you have a report that says the chassis shortening has been done and its before the new legislation came in your sorted, in fact if its done right you'll have a super duty 88" chassis.
If the aboves the case then get on with it.

auto · Jan 13, 2011

If the conversion has been done that long ago, I would just carry on. It will always be a bitsa, so just enjoy it as a toy.

The 2.5 is a good engine, and as it has an unleaded head on it, is ideal for a cheap lpg kit (available very cheap for 4 pots) core plugs are simple enough - do check the water pump though!

I would just do it up as it is. Bulkhead not too bad, that little rust hole will be simple to weld up - no worries really!

An exhaust is cheap - assuming it fits, but extending is no hardship. If you are not that way inclined, you can get bolt on flexible steppers to extend it.

Go for it, enjoy it! If it is that cheap, you have nothing to loose!

Bunker · Jan 14, 2011

Having decided to pull the plug on this, I am now once again in 2 minds.....

Firstly lets deal with the Admin side.
He has it insured with NFU as a 'Land Rover - Other' on a policy which is covers all the modifications, so no insurance problems there.
It is still registered as a S111 and I understand and accept the issues there.
The entire build was done by Frogs (see attached, sorry for size).
The only immediate problems are the petrol tank and the water leaking out the engine.

As foolish as it is, I will be getting a Rover be it a fully restored one, or this one. So, I can either spend £2,500 on a good sorted one or have this one, spend £500 on it (to get it on the road) and learn about it without having to do much else. IF I love the damn things like I hope to, I could scrap or sell the bugger, get some of my £500 back and go buy a decent one.
Its potentially a cheap place to begin.....

In my mind anyway.

Any further thoughts?....

auto · Jan 14, 2011

You won't get a fully restored one for £2500...they tend to be around 5-10k. You will pick up a tidy one though, that may need a little tinkering to finish.

So why not just tinker and finish the £500 one, and then sell for a profit and use that you buy a better one - or use as a hack, whilst you rebuild a project one to replace it?

Bunker · Jan 19, 2011

So why not just tinker and finish the £500 one, and then sell for a profit and use that you buy a better one - or use as a hack, whilst you rebuild a project one to replace it

yes I think thats the way forward, my only reservation is the engine, and its got the original gearbox etc too so cant even slide a TDi in without changing all of that (apparently). not sure ther'll be any profit in it but will be a cheap intro into the Land Rover world...

Heres a pic from a few years go, not so shiny now though!....

dr pepper · Jan 19, 2011

You can put a 200 tdi in without changing the 'box.

ciderman · Jan 19, 2011

run that past me again.
what is it?

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