I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....

I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
or post) would be greatly appreciated.

If you are shopping for a 2wd you may be immune to the warpage problems
discussed by so many. I don't know for sure but I would imagine the 2wd
rotors are far less susceptible to warpage because of their design. The 2wd
rotor is much larger because it encompasses the hub and may dissipate heat
better than the 4wd rotor. On the downside, if they do need replacement,
they are much more expensive than the 4wd rotors.
-Brian

"For sale" <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7058dd70.0308011252.4ef9b20@posting.google.com...
: I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....
:
: I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
: Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
: door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
: regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
: that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
: Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
: than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
: three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
: I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
: brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
: or post) would be greatly appreciated.

I have a simple solution....by what ever jeep you want (they are both
awsom..I own a 98 cherokee) and purchase fully metalic pads and cross
drilled rotors....and yes most cherokees have front brake prob's. I replaced
mine after 30,000k (I did a cross Canada tour plus a trip to Salt Lake
City).
For sale <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7058dd70.0308011252.4ef9b20@posting.google.com...
> I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....
>
> I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
> three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> or post) would be greatly appreciated.

My '97 Cherokee Sport (2dr, Auto, 2wd) had those 'thin' rotors and they were
replaced at 55k when the brakes were done. No problem since at 110k.
Replacing rotors is not uncommon so this is just a bit earlier than usual.

Love my Jeep.


"For sale" <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7058dd70.0308011252.4ef9b20@posting.google.com...
> I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....
>
> I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
> three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> or post) would be greatly appreciated.

Mine started warping at around 10k or less. That IS a problem. They are
doing it again at 20k.

Road Toad wrote:
> My '97 Cherokee Sport (2dr, Auto, 2wd) had those 'thin' rotors and they were
> replaced at 55k when the brakes were done. No problem since at 110k.
> Replacing rotors is not uncommon so this is just a bit earlier than usual.
>
> Love my Jeep.
>
>
> "For sale" <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7058dd70.0308011252.4ef9b20@posting.google.com...
>
>>I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....
>>
>>I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
>>Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
>>door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
>>regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
>>that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
>>Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
>>than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
>>three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
>>I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
>>brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
>>or post) would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>


--
___________________________________________________________
tw
03 TJ Rubicon
01 XJ Sport

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry

http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/tj/twaldron/index.html
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
___________________________________________________________

It is not so bad once you start thinking of them as service parts, like an
oil filter...

Earle

"Thomas W." <thomasOBVIOUS@rubicons.com> wrote in message
news:3F2BE374.8010802@rubicons.com...
> Mine started warping at around 10k or less. That IS a problem. They are
> doing it again at 20k.
>
> Road Toad wrote:
> > My '97 Cherokee Sport (2dr, Auto, 2wd) had those 'thin' rotors and they
were
> > replaced at 55k when the brakes were done. No problem since at 110k.
> > Replacing rotors is not uncommon so this is just a bit earlier than
usual.
> >
> > Love my Jeep.
> >
> >
> > "For sale" <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:7058dd70.0308011252.4ef9b20@posting.google.com...
> >
> >>I tried posting this earlier and am not sure it went through....
> >>
> >>I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> >>Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> >>door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> >>regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> >>that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> >>Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> >>than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems. All
> >>three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> >>I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> >>brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> >>or post) would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> tw
> 03 TJ Rubicon
> 01 XJ Sport
>
> There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
> -- Dave Barry
>
> http://www.jeepn.org/members/html/twaldron.html
> http://www.7slotgrille.com/jeepers/tj/twaldron/index.html
> (Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
> ___________________________________________________________
>

In rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys For sale <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems.

Not sure about the 2WD Cherokee, but the 4WD had a recall sometime around
2000 due to the possibility that the brake rotor could separate. I think that
this was mostly in the "rust belt" areas of the US where road salt is commonly
used. There may have also been issues with warping, but I don't remember there
being any recall for that.

My '98 4WD Cherokee had the original rotors replaced at about 15000 miles due to
warping. The replacement rotors lasted all the way up to about 50000 miles.
At that time, they were replaced again due to the "rotor separation" recall.
The replacement rotors only lasted about 15000 miles -- like the originals.

I've now gone with after market el-cheapo rotors as replacements. So far
they've made it past 10000 without warping. The nice part is that the
ordinary cheap replacements on the 4WD Cherokee only cost about $20 and are
easy to replace. I'm not sure, but the 2WD Cherokee's rotors may include
the wheel bearing surfaces, too. The 4WD uses a non-user-serviceable bearing
hub. Because the bearing is separate from the brake rotor, the rotors on the
4WD Cherokee are simple and cheap to replace.

> All
> three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> or post) would be greatly appreciated.

Some folks have said that aftermarket cross drilled rotors last much
longer. I'll probably try a set of those after I see how far the
cheap ones go.

Good luck.

-John

I have a 2001 Grand Cherokee which I bought used 1 year ago with 25k miles
on the odometer. The first thing I did after purchasing was to take it my
dealer and complain about brake pedal pulsing (a sign o warped rotors). The
fix was new improved frt calipers, new rotors, new pads...all covered under
warranty. I beleive the problem is NOT the rotors, but a design defect in
the calipers. I have put 25k miles more miles on this new front brake setup,
with NO brake rotor warping, no problems. Also, I suggest that you take the
time to use a torque wrench to tighten each of the lug nuts to 85 lbs/in.
That helps prevent warpage, I think.

It seems to have taken Jeep 3 years (1999-2002) to figure out and fix the
design defect in the front brake system. ASK FOR NEW FRT BRAKE CALIPERS,
ROTORS, AND PADS UNDER WARRANTY!


"John Sevey" <seveyj@no.spam.like.substance.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:%g_Wa.70747$6a3.1778660@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> In rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys For sale <stantheman312@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> > Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> > door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> > regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> > that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> > Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> > than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems.
>
> Not sure about the 2WD Cherokee, but the 4WD had a recall sometime around
> 2000 due to the possibility that the brake rotor could separate. I think
that
> this was mostly in the "rust belt" areas of the US where road salt is
commonly
> used. There may have also been issues with warping, but I don't remember
there
> being any recall for that.
>
> My '98 4WD Cherokee had the original rotors replaced at about 15000 miles
due to
> warping. The replacement rotors lasted all the way up to about 50000
miles.
> At that time, they were replaced again due to the "rotor separation"
recall.
> The replacement rotors only lasted about 15000 miles -- like the
originals.
>
> I've now gone with after market el-cheapo rotors as replacements. So far
> they've made it past 10000 without warping. The nice part is that the
> ordinary cheap replacements on the 4WD Cherokee only cost about $20 and
are
> easy to replace. I'm not sure, but the 2WD Cherokee's rotors may include
> the wheel bearing surfaces, too. The 4WD uses a non-user-serviceable
bearing
> hub. Because the bearing is separate from the brake rotor, the rotors on
the
> 4WD Cherokee are simple and cheap to replace.
>
> > All
> > three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> > I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> > brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> > or post) would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Some folks have said that aftermarket cross drilled rotors last much
> longer. I'll probably try a set of those after I see how far the
> cheap ones go.
>
> Good luck.
>
> -John

Jim Hunter wrote:
> I have a 2001 Grand Cherokee which I bought used 1 year ago with 25k miles
> on the odometer. The first thing I did after purchasing was to take it my
> dealer and complain about brake pedal pulsing (a sign o warped rotors). The
> fix was new improved frt calipers, new rotors, new pads...all covered under
> warranty. I beleive the problem is NOT the rotors, but a design defect in
> the calipers. I have put 25k miles more miles on this new front brake setup,
> with NO brake rotor warping, no problems. Also, I suggest that you take the
> time to use a torque wrench to tighten each of the lug nuts to 85 lbs/in.
> That helps prevent warpage, I think.

85 is a bit low. spec should be 95-105. At any rate, trust the book.
What prevents warpage is having all the lugs properly torqued.

--
DougW

"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:d0i%a.9108$Ij4.1850@news2.central.cox.net...
> 85 is a bit low. spec should be 95-105. At any rate, trust the book.
> What prevents warpage is having all the lugs properly torqued.

85 ft-lbs. is what my MOPAR FSM says for the low-end of the allowable torque
range.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Jerry Bransford wrote:
> "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
> news:d0i%a.9108$Ij4.1850@news2.central.cox.net...
>> 85 is a bit low. spec should be 95-105. At any rate, trust the book.
>> What prevents warpage is having all the lugs properly torqued.
>
> 85 ft-lbs. is what my MOPAR FSM says for the low-end of the allowable torque
> range.

Yea. I just checked, your correct. I use 95 for almost every wheel except for
mags or lugs with flat surfaces. Wonder if using the low side would be better?

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 04:01:13 GMT, "DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address>
wrote:

>Jim Hunter wrote:
>> I have a 2001 Grand Cherokee which I bought used 1 year ago with 25k miles
>> on the odometer. The first thing I did after purchasing was to take it my
>> dealer and complain about brake pedal pulsing (a sign o warped rotors). The
>> fix was new improved frt calipers, new rotors, new pads...all covered under
>> warranty. I beleive the problem is NOT the rotors, but a design defect in
>> the calipers. I have put 25k miles more miles on this new front brake setup,
>> with NO brake rotor warping, no problems. Also, I suggest that you take the
>> time to use a torque wrench to tighten each of the lug nuts to 85 lbs/in.
>> That helps prevent warpage, I think.
>
>85 is a bit low. spec should be 95-105. At any rate, trust the book.
>What prevents warpage is having all the lugs properly torqued.

That's odd... just had new BFG All Terrains put on my '98 XJ and
according to Costco, the manufacturers torque rating was 115lbs. I have
been doing 90lbs. myself....


--
Taylor

'89 Audi 200
'03 Audi S6 Avant
'98 Jeep Cherokee Sport

The '96 T&C has gone through a couple of "warped rotor" events in it's 130K
lifetime. I am a wheel lug nut torque fanatic and not only set them properly
but 1. Do so using a few tightening iterations in a "criss cross" pattern
and 2. Re-torque them myself each and every time someone else does it as
soon as I get home (yes, I loosen them first).

After alot of years and a lot of different cars, I am convinced that proper
lug nut torque provides no assurance that the rotors will not warp.
Something else is going on that dominates the tendency to warp and it is not
lug nut torque.

Ken


"Jim Hunter" <jhunter3678@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Z92cnTSAHr1-O6CiXTWJjg@comcast.com...
> I have a 2001 Grand Cherokee which I bought used 1 year ago with 25k miles
> on the odometer. The first thing I did after purchasing was to take it my
> dealer and complain about brake pedal pulsing (a sign o warped rotors).
The
> fix was new improved frt calipers, new rotors, new pads...all covered
under
> warranty. I beleive the problem is NOT the rotors, but a design defect in
> the calipers. I have put 25k miles more miles on this new front brake
setup,
> with NO brake rotor warping, no problems. Also, I suggest that you take
the
> time to use a torque wrench to tighten each of the lug nuts to 85 lbs/in.
> That helps prevent warpage, I think.
>
> It seems to have taken Jeep 3 years (1999-2002) to figure out and fix the
> design defect in the front brake system. ASK FOR NEW FRT BRAKE CALIPERS,
> ROTORS, AND PADS UNDER WARRANTY!
>
>
> "John Sevey" <seveyj@no.spam.like.substance.wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:%g_Wa.70747$6a3.1778660@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > In rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys For sale <stantheman312@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> > > I am looking at a 1999 Jeep Cherokee (2WD, 4 door), a 2001 Jeep
> > > Cherokee Sport (2WD, 2 door), and a 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport (2WD, 4
> > > door). I'm concerned by all of the complaints I've seen online
> > > regarding the poor quality/reliability of the brakes/rotors. I saw
> > > that there was a 2000 Recall on the front rotors, and I was hoping a
> > > Jeep expert could tell me if the 2000 or 2001 models are more reliable
> > > than the 1999 model, or do all three have the same problems.
> >
> > Not sure about the 2WD Cherokee, but the 4WD had a recall sometime
around
> > 2000 due to the possibility that the brake rotor could separate. I
think
> that
> > this was mostly in the "rust belt" areas of the US where road salt is
> commonly
> > used. There may have also been issues with warping, but I don't
remember
> there
> > being any recall for that.
> >
> > My '98 4WD Cherokee had the original rotors replaced at about 15000
miles
> due to
> > warping. The replacement rotors lasted all the way up to about 50000
> miles.
> > At that time, they were replaced again due to the "rotor separation"
> recall.
> > The replacement rotors only lasted about 15000 miles -- like the
> originals.
> >
> > I've now gone with after market el-cheapo rotors as replacements. So
far
> > they've made it past 10000 without warping. The nice part is that the
> > ordinary cheap replacements on the 4WD Cherokee only cost about $20 and
> are
> > easy to replace. I'm not sure, but the 2WD Cherokee's rotors may
include
> > the wheel bearing surfaces, too. The 4WD uses a non-user-serviceable
> bearing
> > hub. Because the bearing is separate from the brake rotor, the rotors
on
> the
> > 4WD Cherokee are simple and cheap to replace.
> >
> > > All
> > > three cars are comparable (25K miles, 6 cyl., Auto tran., ~$11K), but
> > > I have reservations in purchasing a vehicle I will have to replace
> > > brakes/rotors so often for. Any insights and suggestions (via email
> > > or post) would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Some folks have said that aftermarket cross drilled rotors last much
> > longer. I'll probably try a set of those after I see how far the
> > cheap ones go.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > -John
>
>

Ken Stoorza wrote:
> The '96 T&C has gone through a couple of "warped rotor" events in it's 130K
> lifetime. I am a wheel lug nut torque fanatic and not only set them properly
> but 1. Do so using a few tightening iterations in a "criss cross" pattern
> and 2. Re-torque them myself each and every time someone else does it as
> soon as I get home (yes, I loosen them first).
>
> After alot of years and a lot of different cars, I am convinced that proper
> lug nut torque provides no assurance that the rotors will not warp.
> Something else is going on that dominates the tendency to warp and it is not
> lug nut torque.

There are several.

1) heat soak
When you use the brakes a lot then sit there at the light with your foot
on the brake. The pads hold heat in the rotor and that difference affects
the material and can lead to warping.
2) drenching
When you get the brakes real hot then stick them in water (like a stream
crossing).
3) Worn caliper mounting bolts
As these things age the brake pads don't always back off and sometimes one
side of the pad will ride against the rotor. Always check pad thickness.
If one pad is thinner than the other you have this problem.
4) Worn piston
If the piston doesn't retract properly the brakes will rub and get hot
5) Defective rotors
DC stock rotors/two piece/ el-cheapo
6) Improper turning of rotors/surfacing of rotors
Midas (for example) and some other chains use the old milling machines
with one blade, not the multiblade rotary milling machines. What was good
for gramp's vehicle isn't good for modern rotors.
7) Probably should be up higher.... Impropper break-in of new rotors/pads
If you don't break in rotors properly they will not wear well.
The procedure is fairly easy.. stillen has it on the website last I checked.

That's just a few.

--
rbg

DougW wrote:
>
> There are several.
>
> 1) heat soak
> When you use the brakes a lot then sit there at the light with your foot
> on the brake. The pads hold heat in the rotor and that difference affects
> the material and can lead to warping.
> 2) drenching
> When you get the brakes real hot then stick them in water (like a stream
> crossing).
> 3) Worn caliper mounting bolts
> As these things age the brake pads don't always back off and sometimes one
> side of the pad will ride against the rotor. Always check pad thickness.
> If one pad is thinner than the other you have this problem.
> 4) Worn piston
> If the piston doesn't retract properly the brakes will rub and get hot
> 5) Defective rotors
> DC stock rotors/two piece/ el-cheapo
> 6) Improper turning of rotors/surfacing of rotors
> Midas (for example) and some other chains use the old milling machines
> with one blade, not the multiblade rotary milling machines. What was good
> for gramp's vehicle isn't good for modern rotors.
> 7) Probably should be up higher.... Impropper break-in of new rotors/pads
> If you don't break in rotors properly they will not wear well.
> The procedure is fairly easy.. stillen has it on the website last I checked.
>
> That's just a few.
>
> --
> rbg

A coupla more ideas:
1) When you torque (re-torque) the lug nuts, it is best to have the
weight off the wheel thru the entire torqueing process (have someone
apply the brakes if necessary for the last stage of torqueing - probably
won't be necessary - parking pawl is generally sufficient - at least for
the fronts). If you let the weight down on the wheel during the
torqueing, not only a vertical force, but a tremendous side force is put
on the tire and wheel as the geometry of the suspension changes as the
springs settle from the vehicle weight and can result in residual
stresses in the installed wheel/hub assembly (one more factor that can
be eliminated).

2) For extra insurance against warping, especially on a problem vehicle,
you can have a new set of rotors cryogenically treated - will cost $75
plus shipping for treatment of a pair of rotors (based on: $1.50/pound
with min. job charge of $75 - a typical rotor would weigh in the
neighborhood of 15 to 21 pounds - rears are almost certainly not the
problem - only necessary to do the fronts). I recommend
www.300below.com. I had new rotors (fronts only) done on my '99
Concorde (LH cars are also plaqued by rotor warping) several months ago,
and the brakes are as smooth today as when I first put them on - and I
just spent a week vacation in the mountians of West Virginia with 3-mile
8 to 10% downhill grades braking from 55 mph to 15 mph for hairpin turns
- I think I just proved (to myself anyway) that there is something to
this cryo-treating). Side benefits: Rotor wear is decreased to 1/2 to
1/3 of non-treated rotors, pad wear decreased to 80% of normal; friction
coefficient somewhere between unchanged to slight increase.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")


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