I know this in not going to be popular, but the speed of traffic is becoming greater as the other vehicles in my area are now coming with ABS, 20 years after it became wide spread. and they no longer believe in stopping until its almost too late. So in order to save my series 3 from a head on crash at 60mph, 'I know apparently other cars do reach these speeds' I would like to fit a simple ABS unit, to gain the upper hand in stopping. I was thinking of a Freelander 1 unit, as the parts are cheap and the vehicles are of similar weights. My brakes at present are factory fit 10" drums with single line CV type master cylinder, and lock up strait away.
I would like to know if anyone has tried this before on similar vehicles and what donor was used? My biggest fear is making the individual speed sensors, I haven't a clue on how they would work!

It isn't just ABS, it's that brake systems and materials have just simply got better too, as well as speeds of cars generally increasing. ABS doesn't work until you're braking _VERY_ hard, panic braking. In fact in winter or on mud it doesn't work .. full stop (or not!) unless it's a pretty sophisticated system. A change to disk brakes would be a major benefit for braking, ABS wouldn't.

I'd say mechanically upgrade what you've got, and service it regularly.

You can upgrade to 11", but if it was me I'd upgrade with a servo first. If well set up it does make a difference with assisted braking. Keeps authenticity as well. A disc upgrade is possible but whole lot more parts and work. S3 brakes if set up properly will stop aggressively. Need to be set soft on the pedal and you'll get good bite at the drums.

properly adjusted series brakes are fine, just because other people brake too late doesn't mean you have to, what happened to looking ahead and anticipation?

my s3 will stop quickly when necessary, I do the odd test emergency stop but don't need to when driving around

If you're locking up, then your tyres are what's limiting your stopping ability, not your brakes. They're doing as much as they can do. Adding a servo will mean you can lock them with less foot effort. Moving up to 11" brakes will mean you're more likely to lock 'em.

ABS just releases the brakes, sticks 'em back on, releases, on, releases on - you can do that manually, it's called cadence braking. It'll reduce your stopping distance compared to locked wheels, but they'll be longer than if you manually held the brakes just before they point they locked.

11" drums and a servo with everything well set up you will not be lacking any stopping power. Only time they are wanting is after wading through water when discs win hands down due to drying quicker.
ABS is not for the home mechanic, the speed sensors (slotted rings) and the pick up sensors are the easy bit. Finding a suitable module and getting it working is nigh on impossible.

Paul D said:

It isn't just ABS, it's that brake systems and materials have just simply got better too, as well as speeds of cars generally increasing. ABS doesn't work until you're braking _VERY_ hard, panic braking. In fact in winter or on mud it doesn't work .. full stop (or not!) unless it's a pretty sophisticated system. A change to disk brakes would be a major benefit for braking, ABS wouldn't.

I'd say mechanically upgrade what you've got, and service it regularly.

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This is the right answer IMHO.

Just use the cadence method.

Read the road. Brake earlier, drive smoother. Pretty simple to drive your car to it's and your capabilities. Sadly not a lot of people know that or do it.

Bobsticle said:

Just use the cadence method.

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True we have advantage by seeing the next car ahead breaking gives you foresight. But did they use to call it feathering the brakes like on western stagecoach. As the train of horses only no one route and when they hit the handbrake that can be dragged.

Agreed with the above my series 2a 109 with Tdi and the higher gearing, Standard 11 inch drums but with a series 3 servo. I've just changed one of the wheel cylinders at the front and adjusted and bled everything and under heavy braking just before locking up the front suspension compressed nicely and you feel like you'd go through the windscreen if not wearing a seatbelt. My tyres are Avon range master up front and colway M/T's (I think) on the rear.

The best upgrade would be road tyres or a mild all terrain up front as most of the braking is sent there. ive got to tow a Range Rover classic home tomorrow and I'm not worried about the brakes more worried about an idiot who will cause me to have to brake in an emergency.

Disk brakes are an option although the braking isn't massively better compared to drums just less maintenance and less fade which will give you reliable braking.
ABS doesn't make you stop quicker or in a shorter distance as such but the main benefit is being able to steer whilst hard on the brakes.

saxavordian said:

True we have advantage by seeing the next car ahead breaking gives you foresight. But did they use to call it feathering the brakes like on western stagecoach. As the train of horses only no one route and when they hit the handbrake that can be dragged.

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It is perfectly possible to emulate ABS by repeatedly releasing the brake and re applying if you feel the tyres losing traction. You can however only achieve this if you are switched on to your driving and constantly anticipating an emergency situation. I have only used this technique a few times but one was when my foot brake completely failed. I had to instantly reach for the hand brake. As you probably know a hand brake aint the best at stopping a car doing 30mph and it almost instantly locked the rear wheels. By keeping the button in and repeatedly locking and releasing the wheels I not only avoided a collision but the car was prevented from skidding out of control.
Feathering modern brakes is just a term used for gently releasing the brake as the vehicle comes to a gentle stop. Something I do thousands of times a day on my bus.

In my actual experience, ABS doesn't help when there's very little grip at all. If all wheels lock up, or slide then it simply doesn't work unless it's really sophisticated. A home made system won't cope with snow and ice, when Renault and ford can't make it work in snow and ice on a mid-priced car (Laguna, Mondeo). I'd rather not have ABS at all on any vehicle, but prefer decent brakes that you can do cadence braking with and which will do what you want to do .. left foot braking off-road when wheels are spinning, for instance, coming steeply downhill when you need a bit more control of brake, clutch and throttle balance for a couple of instances.

On road it's probably 'a good thing' on decent roads that are a bit damp, and you're at a higher speed. For normal driving, again in my experience, if ABS kicks in regularly then either something's wrong with the system, or you're panic braking. In either case ABS is not really a bonus and is probably not needed.

What I hadn't noticed in the OP's post, which I just read again, is that he frequently locks his wheels .. I'd say as above, that something's wrong with the system, either brakes or tyres, or he's driving wrongly and panic braking. My Series would only lock wheels on damp or worse roads, in the dry it just stopped, no drama, no skipping and no massive braking effect simply 'cos it isn't needed. When I absolutely stamped on the brakes I could make the rear wheels lock, but the front just gave great braking, commensurate with it's age! I did have, however, pretty soft (Kingpin) tyres that were pretty grippy and well setup drums.

And messing about with brakes that much could get you in trouble with the law if [god forbid] you do have an accident.