Singh vs Khan? Who'd have thought?!

ffcgary1 said:

I suggest that you google TFL ORDER 2006, because when our V8’s were manufactured there was no emissions order for Euro 2-3 engines, so therefore compliant for ULEZ Regulations. Euro 3 was repealed by Government. Therefore no order. Khan is not playing by the rules that his own department has set up, if you need more info google action against ULEZ extension and a post by fella called Mavinda Singh.

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I couldn't find this post you mention. Do you have a link?
Or even better, which clause is he breaking in this document: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/lez-annex-F.pdf

Just been in touch with JLR online and they e-mailed me a form to obtain a COC.
All I had to do was fill out the form and send it completed along with colour scans of my licence and the V5.
I'm not affected by ULEZ or LEZ yet but it may be a good thing to have available to confirm the pollution levels of my 4.6 Thor monster.

Well, my COC arrived by e-mail today.

It says...


Mine says my Nox is 0.434 like @pete12345 and his bus. Does this mean I pass and am exempt?

Well, my COC arrived by e-mail today.

duplicate post....sorry

In theory no as the limit is 0.08 but it's worth trying anyway just incase TFL are consistently incompetent

Well reading their document The Greater London Low Emission Zone Charging Order 2006 it specifically only references "Compression Ignition Engines" i.e. Diseasels in each of the tables for compliant/non-compliant levels of "particulate Emissions". These Particulate Emissions are measured in g/Km and if you are under the set limit you are compliant.

My CoC says 0 on the "particulate" g/Km so that suggests I am compliant according to their table and their rules.

So its rather confusing.

This is what mine said when I submitted it, but they still declined !!

After reading through the charging order I would say you wouldn't pass, while they do mention compression ignition engines technically both petrol and diesel are compression its just with petrol the compression is gained via spark and diesel particulates are entirely different from nOX which I believe is what they actually want to know.

However if you look at the table for after 2012 in theory the p38 because of weights would fall under the 3rd line meaning the limit should be 0.10 rather than the 0.08 they are saying as the limit. Which yours is still above admittedly unless they actually want HC in which case you would be within the 0.10 limit according the the table.

That's how I'm interpreting it anyway, I would say regardless they are probably not placing the P38 in the right weight class most of the time when people are going to them and giving them a somewhat stricter limit and so could be worth pointing out that it should be under the right weight class.

DanClarke said:

Well reading their document The Greater London Low Emission Zone Charging Order 2006 it specifically only references "Compression Ignition Engines" i.e. Diseasels in each of the tables for compliant/non-compliant levels of "particulate Emissions". These Particulate Emissions are measured in g/Km and if you are under the set limit you are compliant.

My CoC says 0 on the "particulate" g/Km so that suggests I am compliant according to their table and their rules.

So its rather confusing.

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This may well be out of date. Not sure. But there is definitely a NOx limit of 0.08 g/km for ULEZ for petrols

pwood999 said:

This is what mine said when I submitted it, but they still declined !!

View attachment 286357

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Yours should have passed. I would appral

Khemitude said:

After reading through the charging order I would say you wouldn't pass, while they do mention compression ignition engines technically both petrol and diesel are compression its just with petrol the compression is gained via spark and diesel particulates are entirely different from nOX which I believe is what they actually want to know.

However if you look at the table for after 2012 in theory the p38 because of weights would fall under the 3rd line meaning the limit should be 0.10 rather than the 0.08 they are saying as the limit. Which yours is still above admittedly unless they actually want HC in which case you would be within the 0.10 limit according the the table.

That's how I'm interpreting it anyway, I would say regardless they are probably not placing the P38 in the right weight class most of the time when people are going to them and giving them a somewhat stricter limit and so could be worth pointing out that it should be under the right weight class.

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I looked at it that way too and saw this:

"PART 1 EMISSIONS STANDARDS FOR LOW EMISSION VEHICLES 1.——(1) Subject to paragraph (2) a vehicle meets the standards set out in Table 1 if— (a) the vehicle is certified by the appropriate national approval authority as having been manufactured to satisfy the EC emissions standard specified for that vehicle in column (e) of the Table; (b) the vehicle has been adapted, by means of an exhaust after-treatment system or otherwise, so that the limit values for the emission of particulate matter specified for the vehicle in column (f) would not be exceeded during the appropriate test or tests specified in column (g) of the Table; or (c) in respect of all other vehicles, the limit values for the emission of particulate matter specified for the vehicle in column (f) would not be exceeded during the appropriate test or tests specified in column (g) of the Table."

The table specifies weight classes for vehicles of "max Mass" & "Reference Mass" and the P38 (as built) has a Reference Mass of 2200Kg and max permissible mass (laden) of 2750Kg. I think this puts the vehicle in row 3 and as Class M2.
All that is required of the vehicle is to comply with Euro3 emissions standards and emit 0.1g/Km (or less) of Particulate matter. And the Rover supplied CoC says "0".

Well Euro 3 came into being ion Jan 1st 2001 and my vehicle was built before then so it surely cannot apply?
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What is Euro 3 emission standard?

Euro 3 (EC2000)

Applies to all new cars registered from 1 January 2001. Benefits: Introduced separate limits for hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxide emissions for petrol engines, and a separate nitrogen oxide limit for diesel engines. Euro 3 emissions limits (petrol) CO: 2.30g/km HC: 0.20g/km NOx: 0.15g/km.
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So my P38 fails a standard that was created AFTER the vehicle was made.

I think you are over complicating this. The standards are set out here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ul... are:,minibuses and other specialist vehicles

Euro 4 for petrol on Nox. That's it.
If your car meets the Euro 4 NOx limit of 0.08g/km your golden.

Yours is same as mine Dan and I got a pass

Ours was exported to Australia when new and then re-imported via Ireland and finally to England whereupon it was listed as 'land rover' unknown' It means we don't pay Sadist Khan's £12 per day ULEZ despite it being a 3 litre turbo diesel, makes no sense! But we are happy!

nevillen said:

Ours was exported to Australia when new and then re-imported via Ireland and finally to England whereupon it was listed as 'land rover' unknown' It means we don't pay Sadist Khan's £12 per day ULEZ despite it being a 3 litre turbo diesel, makes no sense! But we are happy!

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Export to Ireland and back then! A whole new industry!