firlandsfarm
Member
Yep had terrible trouble with No. 3 and eventually hit on the rubber tube thought and luckily had the right size.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
If you've read my thread, there is nothing else for me to add , except it is not my 'preferred' battery .Thanks GoldRover but there is some doubt as to what is the 'correct battery'! I have been sold a battery that was claimed by the supplier (and many other suppliers) to be correct but now appears to be under-powered (Type: 019 82Ah CCA 720A). Other suppliers claim the Type:020 is the correct battery (110AH 920A ... I notice from another thread (Here) this was your preferred/current battery a couple of years ago). Rimmer Brothers are offering a "Genuine Land Rover Battery" for the L322 with LR logos etc but it is 'only' 110Ah CCA 750A ... a higher Ah rating than the one I was sold but not much better in terms of total capacity. The Land Rover Handbook for the 4.2 SC L322 only goes as far as to say "Battery type Group 95R, sealed for life" which is non-specific because both the type 019 and type 020 are within that group (and possibly others)! So what is the 'correct battery' ... there doesn't seem to be any agreement and LR themselves sit on the fence.
I'm taking the view that a car (tractor, lorry, bus, excavator) battery is a car etc. battery and what counts is the physical size, the voltage and the Ah and CCA ratings. The 643/644 battery I have bought fits the space and is it more than powerful enough being more than the 020. That it is also used in many heavy duty situations is a plus ... it's tried, tested and respected.
Just been reminded why I decided not to attempt to help with battery issues ever again.
firlandsfarm
Member
Sorry GoldR but I did say "preferred/current battery" because in the thread you did say ... "My battery is 190mmx393mmx175mm" which is the size of an 020, my apologies if I was presumptive.
Why are you reminded of not helping with battery issues ... the subject is not clear and we should all be sharing our experiences.
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Datatek
Well-Known Member
Goldrover (aka vinigar tits) pays to have everything done on her car so is not a fountain of knowledge
gold rover
Well-Known Member
My experience with the L322 battery is written down, plainly and clearly. I managed to share the experience, with those who wish to read it.
Ah well. Sun is shining, weather sweet, must go cut the grass.
you had to go and say it, didn't you!? its raining now and 10 degrees colder than yesterday!Ah well. Sun is shining, weather sweet, must go cut the grass.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
@Datatek, unfortunately your drivel popped up, (unlike your dribble which runs down your face when you speak) before I signed in so had the misfortune to be subject to it.
Let's be clear about a couple of things. Yes I pay to get my work done. One, because unlike you, I can afford to pay to get it done, Two , again, unlike you I didn't run off to a foreign country to live, but still want looked after by this one. I put on the uniform of my Country and fought for her. In doing so I lost full use of my arms, one more than the other, so I have to get the work done by others. Although my money still helps employ people in this country.
So if you think that you are somehow better than me because you can work on a P38, do not understand any vehicle after 2002, and keep bitching, years after you had a strip torn off you.
Then you are greatly mistaken.
I had almost forgotten you exist. I shall be back to that position soon
Let's be clear about a couple of things. Yes I pay to get my work done. One, because unlike you, I can afford to pay to get it done, Two , again, unlike you I didn't run off to a foreign country to live, but still want looked after by this one. I put on the uniform of my Country and fought for her. In doing so I lost full use of my arms, one more than the other, so I have to get the work done by others. Although my money still helps employ people in this country.
So if you think that you are somehow better than me because you can work on a P38, do not understand any vehicle after 2002, and keep bitching, years after you had a strip torn off you.
Then you are greatly mistaken.
I had almost forgotten you exist. I shall be back to that position soon
gold rover
Well-Known Member
Still nice here
Got a nice new petrol bushwhacker to try out. Managed to break the Bosch electric one in under an hour.firlandsfarm
Member
OK, latest update (and my very grateful thanks to all for your continued interest, it's becoming a bit like a book! ). The battery arrived yesterday after a problem with the courier which was resolved courteously and immediately when I emailed the CEO ... I can appreciate a parcel being late but what I cannot accept is when the courier blames the customer for "being out" when I was in all day and the door to the house was wide open to allow air to flow! Anyway that's now on charge to make sure it's fully topped up ... man that battery weighs a ton but then more electricity requires more lead.
The spark plugs ... all spark plugs are out and I'm beginning to wonder if I was sold a pup by a pig who misdescribed the car wantonly. It was described as a rough runner but it's a non-runner chucked together in 5 mins! Let me explain but first an easy question if I may ...
Would I be right to assume there should be a cover over the coils/plugs ... I have a couple of locating pins, positioning lip at the top and a hole possibly for a fixing bolt but that's it, the coils are fully exposed!
I can't find a cover on parts websites so I assume it's a dealer and mortgage job? You will also notice a lack of oil around the plug recesses, I will come on to that later.
All plug recesses had oil, some were bathed in the stuff. I've laid them out in the next pic with their coils (the feeler gauges mark No. 1 cylinder, the front right cylinder sitting as the driver).
So who noticed the coil for No.3? Yeah, not the same. If you are going to use a different (wrong?) coil wouldn't you at least cut the excess of the rubber shield off the bottom! Also the plug in No. 3 was an NGK, all others were Champion. Makes me wonder what the history of No. 3 might hold. Anyway, that's at least one new coil needed but what about the rest? Would being bathed in oil damage a coil. I think in the 'old days' when cars were cars and not computers on wheels some high performance coils were oil filled to aid cooling but probably not to the temperature this oil would have reached in the plug recess and I have no idea of the internal design of such coils. Research on this is confused ... some say oil does not conduct electricity but 'dirty oil' can and others say it can cause plugs to short out. I'm going to replace the plugs anyway (best plugs?) but not sure about the coils, need to find a test for them.
From the point of trying to uncover why it's not starting I looked at the plugs in detail. All plugs bar one had a gap of 40-45 thou which is good but that's the only thing that was! Cylinders 4 and 5 were moderately tight i.e. I had to give my socket drive a slight tug! The rest were either only finger tight or I could undo them by hand with just the leverage of the UJ folded over. Smacks of someone who was working on the car, giving up and then just chucking it back together and makes you wonder what else was "put back" carelessly! One plug was gapped at 32 thou and yes you guessed it, it was the 'rogue' No. 3 cylinder again! All plugs read around 1.5MOhms across the terminal and earth so no obvious fault there but HT can jump where LT can't. Other clues given up by the plugs were ...
No.1 ... Black/Rich and dry (no oil), 'UJ' tightness (see above)
No.2 ... Black/Rich and wet from oil in recess, finger tight
No.3 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.4 ... Dark with no soot and oil from recess, moderately tight
No.5 ... Black/Rich and dry (no oil), moderately tight
No.6 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.7 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.8 ... Black/Rich and wet, 'UJ' tightness (see above)
You can see the amount of oil in some recesses if you notice the dark band on the white porcelain stem. Any ideas where it's come from ... if you look at the left (5-8) bank it's bone dry and while the right (1-4) bank is wet that's mainly from the spillage from the removal of coils and plugs ... above the plug recesses there is very little oil wetness.
I've performed a simplistic test on the coils based on not all 8 will have 'blown' identically. There are 4 terminals to each coil so I thought if I measure the resistance between each terminal (1-2,1-3,1-4, 2-3, 2-4 and 3-4) and see if any vary from the majority. Well they are all the same except ... No.3! 1-2 gave me a reading of around 1.1Kohms for all, 1-4 was around 55Kohms (except No.3 which was 44Kohms) . 2-4 was the same readings and 3-4 was around 13Mohms for all (except, again, No.3 was 15Mohms). The other terminal connects did not produce a reading. I don't know what this proves other than perhaps they are all good or they all have a fault (excluding No.3 from that conclusion!). I will obviously replace No.3 and can then use that as a proven sample to compare against the others. I'm toying with the idea of rigging up an HT test but can't find which of the terminals provide the spark and which provide the signal. My understanding is that the signals use 5 volts whereas I would expect the spark feed to be 12 volts and don't want to feed 12 volts to something that is expecting 5!
The battery benefited from the overnight charge, it is now reading 14.2 volts. I've ordered a compression tester ... can't find my old one and thought I may as well do a test as a car I have no experience of. So when that arrives I will test the cylinders, replace the plugs and coils and try to start her.
). The battery arrived yesterday after a problem with the courier which was resolved courteously and immediately when I emailed the CEO ... I can appreciate a parcel being late but what I cannot accept is when the courier blames the customer for "being out" when I was in all day and the door to the house was wide open to allow air to flow! Anyway that's now on charge to make sure it's fully topped up ... man that battery weighs a ton but then more electricity requires more lead.The spark plugs ... all spark plugs are out and I'm beginning to wonder if I was sold a pup by a pig who misdescribed the car wantonly. It was described as a rough runner but it's a non-runner chucked together in 5 mins! Let me explain but first an easy question if I may ...
Would I be right to assume there should be a cover over the coils/plugs ... I have a couple of locating pins, positioning lip at the top and a hole possibly for a fixing bolt but that's it, the coils are fully exposed!
I can't find a cover on parts websites so I assume it's a dealer and mortgage job? You will also notice a lack of oil around the plug recesses, I will come on to that later.
All plug recesses had oil, some were bathed in the stuff. I've laid them out in the next pic with their coils (the feeler gauges mark No. 1 cylinder, the front right cylinder sitting as the driver).
So who noticed the coil for No.3?
Yeah, not the same. If you are going to use a different (wrong?) coil wouldn't you at least cut the excess of the rubber shield off the bottom! Also the plug in No. 3 was an NGK, all others were Champion. Makes me wonder what the history of No. 3 might hold. Anyway, that's at least one new coil needed but what about the rest? Would being bathed in oil damage a coil. I think in the 'old days' when cars were cars and not computers on wheels some high performance coils were oil filled to aid cooling but probably not to the temperature this oil would have reached in the plug recess and I have no idea of the internal design of such coils. Research on this is confused ... some say oil does not conduct electricity but 'dirty oil' can and others say it can cause plugs to short out. I'm going to replace the plugs anyway (best plugs?) but not sure about the coils, need to find a test for them.From the point of trying to uncover why it's not starting I looked at the plugs in detail. All plugs bar one had a gap of 40-45 thou which is good but that's the only thing that was! Cylinders 4 and 5 were moderately tight i.e. I had to give my socket drive a slight tug! The rest were either only finger tight or I could undo them by hand with just the leverage of the UJ folded over. Smacks of someone who was working on the car, giving up and then just chucking it back together and makes you wonder what else was "put back" carelessly! One plug was gapped at 32 thou and yes you guessed it, it was the 'rogue' No. 3 cylinder again! All plugs read around 1.5MOhms across the terminal and earth so no obvious fault there but HT can jump where LT can't. Other clues given up by the plugs were ...
No.1 ... Black/Rich and dry (no oil), 'UJ' tightness (see above)
No.2 ... Black/Rich and wet from oil in recess, finger tight
No.3 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.4 ... Dark with no soot and oil from recess, moderately tight
No.5 ... Black/Rich and dry (no oil), moderately tight
No.6 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.7 ... Maybe no colour (difficult to tell because oil from recess has discoloured), finger tight
No.8 ... Black/Rich and wet, 'UJ' tightness (see above)
You can see the amount of oil in some recesses if you notice the dark band on the white porcelain stem. Any ideas where it's come from ... if you look at the left (5-8) bank it's bone dry and while the right (1-4) bank is wet that's mainly from the spillage from the removal of coils and plugs ... above the plug recesses there is very little oil wetness.
I've performed a simplistic test on the coils based on not all 8 will have 'blown' identically. There are 4 terminals to each coil so I thought if I measure the resistance between each terminal (1-2,1-3,1-4, 2-3, 2-4 and 3-4) and see if any vary from the majority. Well they are all the same except ... No.3! 1-2 gave me a reading of around 1.1Kohms for all, 1-4 was around 55Kohms (except No.3 which was 44Kohms) . 2-4 was the same readings and 3-4 was around 13Mohms for all (except, again, No.3 was 15Mohms). The other terminal connects did not produce a reading. I don't know what this proves other than perhaps they are all good or they all have a fault (excluding No.3 from that conclusion!). I will obviously replace No.3 and can then use that as a proven sample to compare against the others. I'm toying with the idea of rigging up an HT test but can't find which of the terminals provide the spark and which provide the signal. My understanding is that the signals use 5 volts whereas I would expect the spark feed to be 12 volts and don't want to feed 12 volts to something that is expecting 5!
The battery benefited from the overnight charge, it is now reading 14.2 volts. I've ordered a compression tester ... can't find my old one and thought I may as well do a test as a car I have no experience of. So when that arrives I will test the cylinders, replace the plugs and coils and try to start her.
Attachments
firlandsfarm
Member
I'm new to the forum ... why are you so grumpy?! I simply pointed out that there is no common consensus to what is the correct battery for an L322 4.2 and gave the sources for my opinion and commented that you (seemed to) have an 020. Can't see why you should be grumpy to me, I'm not the cause of any history here.
Datatek
Well-Known Member
Now you know why she is called "vinegar tits"
She has a superiority complex from being in the army Don't ever use the word "Guys" to address folks on the forum of she will explode.
gold rover
Well-Known Member
I am not 'grumpy'. I'm fed up. If you read (as in 'red' not 'reed') the full thread you will see how much experience I shared , and how much trouble I had , to finally get a solution for many of the spurious faults the L322 comes up, due to incorrect battery.
I did it the hard way, for around 3 years, chasing faults, listening to garages, battery suppliers, manufacturers and those on here who can't get past 'well the P38' , sharing every step of my adventures, before my trial and error , gave a nice simple easy answer for L322 owners.
An answer that is still being ignored, when newbies like yourself need to get the battery right before chasing anything else. So yes, I am fed up. But grumpy, nope , you haven't seen me grumpy yet
However, I am going to be grumpy about 45 mins from now , when I reach the nearest village, and catch hold of the village idiot , who sold me a bushwhacker without ancillaries in the (supposedly sealed) box
firlandsfarm
Member
I have only read your comments on the post/thread I linked you to which don't seem to be that intensive ... give me a link to your main thread on the subject for me to look at, maybe life will become clearer. And don't worry about being grumpy, I'm old enough and ugly enough to outgrump anyone ... but you do sound grumpy!I am not 'grumpy'. I'm fed up. If you read (as in 'red' not 'reed') the full thread you will see how much experience I shared , and how much trouble I had , to finally get a solution for many of the spurious faults the L322 comes up, due to incorrect battery.
I did it the hard way, for around 3 years, chasing faults, listening to garages, battery suppliers, manufacturers and those on here who can't get past 'well the P38' , sharing every step of my adventures, before my trial and error , gave a nice simple easy answer for L322 owners.
An answer that is still being ignored, when newbies like yourself need to get the battery right before chasing anything else. So yes, I am fed up. But grumpy, nope , you haven't seen me grumpy yet
However, I am going to be grumpy about 45 mins from now , when I reach the nearest village, and catch hold of the village idiot , who sold me a bushwhacker without ancillaries in the (supposedly sealed) box
firlandsfarm
Member
An addendum to my last car post (not the 'grumpy' ones! ). I thought I would investigate the coil connections and my apologies if this is widely known but I found it interesting.
Firstly let's orientate ourselves. I will refer to the terminals on the coil from left to right as you hold the coil in front of you with the socket facing you. So T1 will be the leftmost, then T2, T3 and finally T4 the rightmost. Now remember the coil will be facing the other way when in the engine so T1 is the rightmost on the plug and T4 the leftmost. OK, that's the difficult bit out of the way!
I turned ignition on and took a voltage reading from T4 to engine earth ... 12 volts.
I then took a voltage reading from T3 to engine earth ... 5 volts. Great got them sussed.
There was no reading from T1 or T2 to engine earth.
I then took a reading from T4 to T2 ... 12 volts. OK, so T2 is an earth return.
So how about T4 to T1 ... 12 volts. OK, so T1 is also an earth return.
I repeated the test for T3 to T2 and T1 seperately and yep, 5 volts for both readings.
So T4 is the 'spark' feed and T3 the signal.
I then expected zero resistance between T1 and T2 (the earth returns) and the engine earth but no ... there was no connection between any of them! That surprised me and I don't have a reason for that.
My next surprise was that both the T4 (12 volt) and T3 (5 volt) terminals remained live when the ignition was in position I and even when turned off, position 0. The terminals did not lose power until the key was physically removed from the ignition switch.
). I thought I would investigate the coil connections and my apologies if this is widely known but I found it interesting.Firstly let's orientate ourselves. I will refer to the terminals on the coil from left to right as you hold the coil in front of you with the socket facing you. So T1 will be the leftmost, then T2, T3 and finally T4 the rightmost. Now remember the coil will be facing the other way when in the engine so T1 is the rightmost on the plug and T4 the leftmost. OK, that's the difficult bit out of the way!
I turned ignition on and took a voltage reading from T4 to engine earth ... 12 volts.
I then took a voltage reading from T3 to engine earth ... 5 volts. Great got them sussed.
There was no reading from T1 or T2 to engine earth.
I then took a reading from T4 to T2 ... 12 volts. OK, so T2 is an earth return.
So how about T4 to T1 ... 12 volts. OK, so T1 is also an earth return.
I repeated the test for T3 to T2 and T1 seperately and yep, 5 volts for both readings.
So T4 is the 'spark' feed and T3 the signal.
I then expected zero resistance between T1 and T2 (the earth returns) and the engine earth but no ... there was no connection between any of them! That surprised me and I don't have a reason for that.
My next surprise was that both the T4 (12 volt) and T3 (5 volt) terminals remained live when the ignition was in position I and even when turned off, position 0. The terminals did not lose power until the key was physically removed from the ignition switch.
ukadamwest
Well-Known Member
Now you know why she is called "vinegar tits"
Noted, guys.
ukadamwest
Well-Known Member
Firlands. Where are you located ?
I have an 06 SC.
For diagnostics you should look no further than GAP IID tool. mine lives in the car. i got mine for 400.
Lets see what happens with new battery and plugs.
If you want part numbers and exploded views go here http://lrparts.ru/engl/
I also have the workshop manual in PDF for the SC. Let me know if you want it
I have an 06 SC.
For diagnostics you should look no further than GAP IID tool. mine lives in the car. i got mine for 400.
Lets see what happens with new battery and plugs.
If you want part numbers and exploded views go here http://lrparts.ru/engl/
I also have the workshop manual in PDF for the SC. Let me know if you want it
Datatek
Well-Known Member
You like to live dangerously LOL. Maybe it's blocked you too
firlandsfarm
Member
I'm in Heathfield, East Sussex. Thanks for the input. I'll check out the GAP and exploded parts diagrams.
Yes would love a copy of the manual thanks ... how do we do that, can I give an email address in some form of private message?
ukadamwest
Well-Known Member
@biketeacherdave isnt that far from you.... well ish
