S

Singr07

Active Member
Hi friends I need some advice on my Defender 90 300tdi conversion with LT77 gearbox. Recently it has developed a judder while in reverse gear. But moving it forward or driving otherwise has no issues. It would be great if someone could please shed some light on this issue.

I have spoken to a technician over the telephone and he is suspecting the clutch is on its way but I’m going to see him in 2 weeks time. I’m worried if a mechanic takes it apart and finds other issues like Gearbox output spline, some sort of transfer box issues as well as Clutch then it will cost me hell of the money.

Or I’m thinking to fix it my self. I did replaced a LOF master cylinder last year which worked well. Previously I have replaced a galvanised bulkhead myself, but don’t have any experience to replace any clutch. I have seen some clutch replacement tutorials on YouTube but can’t find a step by step guide. I don’t have a car ramp. Can this job be done at home on a normal floor ground? If I remove the Transfer box first then gearbox after. What sort of tool would be required?

Or if someone knows who could replace the clutch for me at a reasonable cost near to Sandwell then it would be great. I would appreciate any help.

Thanks
 
A judder in reverse only is something one can live with for a bit [ I did for about two years ] Using low box when reversing can help.
It is possible to check gearbox output spline without removing either gearbox or transfer box.
Plenty of how to videos on the tube, although for later model "funrover" does a good one using basic tools.
I would say though, not a starter job for new mechanic at least not without help.
 
Singr07 said:
Hi friends I need some advice on my Defender 90 300tdi conversion with LT77 gearbox. Recently it has developed a judder while in reverse gear. But moving it forward or driving otherwise has no issues. It would be great if someone could please shed some light on this issue.

I have spoken to a technician over the telephone and he is suspecting the clutch is on its way but I’m going to see him in 2 weeks time. I’m worried if a mechanic takes it apart and finds other issues like Gearbox output spline, some sort of transfer box issues as well as Clutch then it will cost me hell of the money.

Or I’m thinking to fix it my self. I did replaced a LOF master cylinder last year which worked well. Previously I have replaced a galvanised bulkhead myself, but don’t have any experience to replace any clutch. I have seen some clutch replacement tutorials on YouTube but can’t find a step by step guide. I don’t have a car ramp. Can this job be done at home on a normal floor ground? If I remove the Transfer box first then gearbox after. What sort of tool would be required?

Or if someone knows who could replace the clutch for me at a reasonable cost near to Sandwell then it would be great. I would appreciate any help.

Thanks
Click to expand...
If the judder only happens in reveres my first port of call would be to inspect, clean and adjust the handbrake before tearing the gearbox apart to get to the clutch
 
Singr07 said:
Or I’m thinking to fix it my self. I did replaced a LOF master cylinder last year which worked well. Previously I have replaced a galvanised bulkhead myself, but don’t have any experience to replace any clutch. I have seen some clutch replacement tutorials on YouTube but can’t find a step by step guide. I don’t have a car ramp. Can this job be done at home on a normal floor ground? If I remove the Transfer box first then gearbox after. What sort of tool would be required?
Click to expand...

If you replaced the bulkhead yourself then you will have the skills to replace a clutch. in terms of special tools to do it yourself on a driveway you will need the clutch alignment tool (although people claim you can do it with a suitable sized socket I prefer the correct tool), and you will need an engine crane. the list below will sound daunting but every job is just a nut and bolt job. last time I did my clutch it took me about 6 hours start to finish but i have done it before and everything just unbolted so there was no fighting seized fixings. there are two methods to change the clutch either move the engine or move the gearbox. I prefer moving the gearbox as there are then no fluids to worry about. there should be some good write ups online as I followed one the first time I did the job.

Access:
The steps are (from memory so apologies if I miss something out):
remove driver and passenger floor panels
remover gearbox tunnel
remove both prop shafts from transfer box (i remove entirely)

Remove transfer box:
disconnect handbrake cable
- I have a disc brake conversion on my handbrake so i remove this entirely, not sure if it is required to remove the handbrake on the standard drum setup -
disconnect transfer box linkage
disconnect transfer box breather
support transfer box with engine crane and strap through the passenger door (can be done with a jack)
unbolt transfer box chassis mount
unbolt transfer box to gearbox (bolts are different lengths use a card template to remember the exact position)
wiggle transfer box backwards to clear stud and shaft
lower to the ground and move out of the way
- I find the easiest way to remove and refit the transfer box is to just bench press it it onto my chest rather than use a jack or engine crane but the crane is definitely the safest and least effort way to do it -

Remove gearbox:
unbolt gear lever
unbolt transfer box lever
disconnect gearbox breather
support gearbox with engine crane and strap through the passenger door
unbolt gearbox chassis mount
remove bellhousing nut/bolts
wiggle gear box backwards to clear studs and shaft
- if just changing the clutch you can just move the gearbox back far enough to be able to give you access rather than remove it completely form the vehicle -

change the clutch:
Unbolt the clutch cover form the flywheel
remove the bronze bush from the end of the crank shaft
- there are various suggested methods of trying to hydraulic it out with grease etc but I have never had any success with that and tend to break it out very carefully with a small and very sharp chisel -
gently tap in a new bronze bush
fit clutch alignment tool through new clutch plate and into crank shaft
bolt up new cover plate
remove little plastic clip holding release bearing to release fork
remove release bearing
remove clutch fork
inspect (i recommend replacing with HD) the clutch fork
cable tie little plastic clip holding rod to the end of the fork for extra security
inspect the clutch for ball bolted to the gearbox and replace if grooved

That is then the clutch changed for a new one and refitting everything else is then, in true haynes fashion the reveres of removal. getting the gearbox lined up to just slide back onto the engine can be a pain, do not force it just keep altering the angle of the box relative to the engine and the height of the engine crane. it can also hep to jack up the back of the engine a little to help things line up. when everything is lines up it just slip in with relatively little force.

I may well have missed a step or two but the main ones are certainly there. it is a slow and heavy job but is not difficult and once again if you swapped a bulkhead yourself already then you have all the required skills to swap a clutch even if you do not have al of the tools.
 
Last edited:
dag019 said:
If you replaced the bulkhead yourself then you will have the skills to replace a clutch. in terms of special tools to do it yourself on a driveway you will need the clutch alignment tool (although people claim you can do it with a suitable sized socket I prefer the correct tool), and you will need an engine crane. the list below will sound daunting but every job is just a nut and bolt job. last time I did my clutch it took me about 6 hours start to finish but i have done it before and everything just unbolted so there was no fighting seized fixings. there are two methods to change the clutch either move the engine or move the gearbox. I prefer moving the gearbox as there are then no fluids to worry about. there should be some good write ups online as I followed one the first time I did the job.

Access:
The steps are (from memory so apologies if I miss something out):
remove driver and passenger floor panels
remover gearbox tunnel
remove both prop shafts from transfer box (i remove entirely)

Remove transfer box:
disconnect handbrake cable
- I have a disc brake conversion on my handbrake so i remove this entirely, not sure if it is required to remove the handbrake on the standard drum setup -
disconnect transfer box linkage
disconnect transfer box breather
support transfer box with engine crane and strap through the passenger door (can be done with a jack)
unbolt transfer box chassis mount
unbolt transfer box to gearbox (bolts are different lengths use a card template to remember the exact position)
wiggle transfer box backwards to clear stud and shaft
lower to the ground and move out of the way
- I find the easiest way to remove and refit the transfer box is to just bench press it it onto my chest rather than use a jack or engine crane but the crane is definitely the safest and least effort way to do it -

Remove gearbox:
unbolt gear lever
unbolt transfer box lever
disconnect gearbox breather
support gearbox with engine crane and strap through the passenger door
unbolt gearbox chassis mount
remove bellhousing nut/bolts
wiggle gear box backwards to clear studs and shaft
- if just changing the clutch you can just move the gearbox back far enough to be able to give you access rather than remove it completely form the vehicle -

change the clutch:
Unbolt the clutch cover form the flywheel
remove the bronze bush from the end of the crank shaft
- there are various suggested methods of trying to hydraulic it out with grease etc but I have never had any success with that and tend to break it out very carefully with a small and very sharp chisel -
gently tap in a new bronze bush
fit clutch alignment tool through new clutch plate and into crank shaft
bolt up new cover plate
remove little plastic clip holding release bearing to release fork
remove release bearing
remove clutch fork
inspect (i recommend replacing with HD) the clutch fork
cable tie little plastic clip holding rod to the end of the fork for extra security
inspect the clutch for ball bolted to the gearbox and replace if grooved

That is then the clutch changed for a new one and refitting everything else is then, in true haynes fashion the reveres of removal. getting the gearbox lined up to just slide back onto the engine can be a pain, do not force it just keep altering the angle of the box relative to the engine and the height of the engine crane. it can also hep to jack up the back of the engine a little to help things line up. when everything is lines up it just slip in with relatively little force.

I may well have missed a step or two but the main ones are certainly there. it is a slow and heavy job but is not difficult and once again if you swapped a bulkhead yourself already then you have all the required skills to swap a clutch even if you do not have al of the tools.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your efforts to prove great details writing, really appreciated. I might ask few more questions when I will start on it. Do you know how far gearbox moves back when unbolted from engine? And does the Slave clutch cylinder needs to be fitted before or after marrying with engine? I have to find an Engine Crane first. May god gives me the strength and courage. Thankfully I have few mates who can give me hand
 
Clutch slave fitted after but the rod can be fitted to fork, some use plastic tie to ensure it remains in place.
Another way of moving gearbox is using a large trolly jack.
Not done this myself but some make a frame/support that fits between jack and box, seen metal and wooden.
 
It really is easy enough doing it the engine out way, also makes refitting easy as you have the weight of the engine pushing input shaft home.
No need for alignment tools, mk1 eyeball is just fine.
I think 300 engine is further forward than 200, so you might not even need to lift the floor plates and trans tunnel.
Gearbox out is a bloody dirty job, props bolts can be a right sod.
 
Singr07 said:
Thanks for your efforts to prove great details writing, really appreciated. I might ask few more questions when I will start on it. Do you know how far gearbox moves back when unbolted from engine? And does the Slave clutch cylinder needs to be fitted before or after marrying with engine? I have to find an Engine Crane first. May god gives me the strength and courage. Thankfully I have few mates who can give me hand
Click to expand...
I said I would miss something, the slave needs to be removed form the bell housing but can be kept plumbed in so you don't need to rebleed.
On my 200tdi with lt77 from memory I can move the gearbox back about a foot and rest the bell housing on the gearbox crossmember (crossmember needs to be removed if you want to remove the gearbox completely). It is far enough back that there is plenty of space to work.
 
Gearbox about to be moved back with a crane through the passenger door. looks like i did this the quick way and didn't even remove the transfer box. although that would explain the ratchet strap as the transfer box moves the weight off centre and means it wants to twist.

IMG_0350.jpeg
 
Hi thanks for the great idea to replace the clutch while hanging on the Crane. My Defender has 300tdi conversion done by previous owners and don’t even has a serial number on the Transfer box apart from a sticker stating ratio 1.40.

I was thinking to remove the transfer box separate to the gearbox for various inspection reasons and try to fix any faults at the same time (oil leaks and the conditions of the LT77 output shafts).

I’ve watched a Trailer Box episode on the YouTube which stressed a Transfer box problem inherited with a old type of input gear without any drill holes which cause the poor lubrication and kills the splines of the output shaft on LT77. However someone has mentioned that LT77 output shaft splines condition could be inspected by removing the OTP cover. Also on the Transfer box casing a steel sleeve could be machined to eliminate the oil leak.

Other issue it had is, when I drive it off on cold start with some gas then it makes a clunk noise and slight clunk when changing gears. I wasn’t sure if move it off in a wrong way or that’s how Defender drives. So I took it to one of the technician couple of months ago to drive it around he said everything is working good. When I drive it off on a cold start without any gas then it don’t make that clunk so confusing. May be clutch is causing that clunk too. I have booked an appointment for another inspection and see what he say.
 
Singr07 said:
Hi thanks for the great idea to replace the clutch while hanging on the Crane. My Defender has 300tdi conversion done by previous owners and don’t even has a serial number on the Transfer box apart from a sticker stating ratio 1.40.

I was thinking to remove the transfer box separate to the gearbox for various inspection reasons and try to fix any faults at the same time (oil leaks and the conditions of the LT77 output shafts).

I’ve watched a Trailer Box episode on the YouTube which stressed a Transfer box problem inherited with a old type of input gear without any drill holes which cause the poor lubrication and kills the splines of the output shaft on LT77. However someone has mentioned that LT77 output shaft splines condition could be inspected by removing the OTP cover. Also on the Transfer box casing a steel sleeve could be machined to eliminate the oil leak.

Other issue it had is, when I drive it off on cold start with some gas then it makes a clunk noise and slight clunk when changing gears. I wasn’t sure if move it off in a wrong way or that’s how Defender drives. So I took it to one of the technician couple of months ago to drive it around he said everything is working good. When I drive it off on a cold start without any gas then it don’t make that clunk so confusing. May be clutch is causing that clunk too. I have booked an appointment for another inspection and see what he say.
Click to expand...
Have you investigated the hand brake drum as @dag019 suggested? This would be an excellent initial thing to do and could well turn out to be the issue.
I've got a 300Tdi, rebuilt the whole vehicle, rebuilt the engine and replaced the clutch. If I was thinking about replacing the clutch again the gearbox out method would be tempting, but I'm sure I'd go engine out method when it came down to it.
Your other clunking issue could well be your A frame ball joint, which is mounted on the rear axle. Or possible a failing prop shaft UJ. Do the easy stuff first, given the age of your Landy it may need doing anyway.
 
Al2O3 said:
Have you investigated the hand brake drum as @dag019 suggested? This would be an excellent initial thing to do and could well turn out to be the issue.
I've got a 300Tdi, rebuilt the whole vehicle, rebuilt the engine and replaced the clutch. If I was thinking about replacing the clutch again the gearbox out method would be tempting, but I'm sure I'd go engine out method when it came down to it.
Your other clunking issue could well be your A frame ball joint, which is mounted on the rear axle. Or possible a failing prop shaft UJ. Do the easy stuff first, given the age of your Landy it may need doing anyway.
Click to expand...
If all the floor screws are in relatively good condition that's the way I prefer. Drive it up onto some blocks and there's decent room to get underneath to lower each box onto your chest. I then roll over and let the box down onto an old skate board.
 
Clonk when taking up drive with an old truck as well as A frame joint can be just wear in the diff and splines in axle caps and also worn UJ's. Taking the clutch out gently each time one changes like when setting off is kind to an old system.
 
tottot said:
Clonk when taking up drive with an old truck as well as A frame joint can be just wear in the diff and splines in axle caps and also worn UJ's. Taking the clutch out gently each time one changes like when setting off is kind to an old system.
Click to expand...
if it is not the a frame ball joint I would replace the drive flanges. They are cheap and easy to do and even if there is other play in the doffs etc they tend to have the noisier play and are a known and deliberate wear point. When refitting but a good load of grease into the rubber cap so the splines stay lubricated.
 
Singr07 said:
Hi friends I need some advice on my Defender 90 300tdi conversion with LT77 gearbox. Recently it has developed a judder while in reverse gear. But moving it forward or driving otherwise has no issues. It would be great if someone could please shed some light on this issue.

I have spoken to a technician over the telephone and he is suspecting the clutch is on its way but I’m going to see him in 2 weeks time. I’m worried if a mechanic takes it apart and finds other issues like Gearbox output spline, some sort of transfer box issues as well as Clutch then it will cost me hell of the money.

Or I’m thinking to fix it my self. I did replaced a LOF master cylinder last year which worked well. Previously I have replaced a galvanised bulkhead myself, but don’t have any experience to replace any clutch. I have seen some clutch replacement tutorials on YouTube but can’t find a step by step guide. I don’t have a car ramp. Can this job be done at home on a normal floor ground? If I remove the Transfer box first then gearbox after. What sort of tool would be required?

Or if someone knows who could replace the clutch for me at a reasonable cost near to Sandwell then it would be great. I would appreciate any help.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I don't see any good reason clutch judder from a worn clutch would only occur in reverse?
Maybe live with it for a while, see if it gets worse/starts to happen when pulling away forwards, before biting off clutch replacement.
The suggestions already given about handbrake, A frame, and driving members are all worth trying, and much less hassle than changing a clutch.
If you do end up changing it, I prefer the engine out method, mainly because I like standing more or less upright on my feet more than lying on the floor.
 
I had a series 2a that juddered only in reverse, don't know why but after a couple of years a new clutch was needed and judder went away.
 
Hi everyone I have moved the Diff shifter to left right to make sure it’s in neutral and magically the judder in reverse has gone. Does anyone have any idea why did that happened at the first place?
 
lynall said:
It really is easy enough doing it the engine out way, also makes refitting easy as you have the weight of the engine pushing input shaft home.
No need for alignment tools, mk1 eyeball is just fine.
I think 300 engine is further forward than 200, so you might not even need to lift the floor plates and trans tunnel.
Gearbox out is a bloody dirty job, props bolts can be a right sod.
Click to expand...
Hi Lynall thanks for your advice. My defender has a 300tdi conversion so engine has fitted very close to the bulkhead
 
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