ldrego · Oct 11, 2015

I have been working on getting these 3 amigos shut down for ages now with varying success. He replacement of a failing abs sensor has stopped it being permanently on and now it comes on after a random amount of driving. I had a thought that this may be due to a weak battery as another car I own switches off the abs , traction control, rear spoiler etc when the battery has not been charged.
I've popped the battery put and it is a Yuasa 640 with 620cc amps. The car seems to run fine but a voltage reading showed about 12.4 or 12.2 volts. I popped it on a battery reconditioner which breaks down sulphate build ups and then charges it again. I've used this charger on hopeless batteries which were unable to be charged by other units successfully so a win would be good here.
Also to note, the glow plugs on my car were also failing so it may be possible that these were also putting more current requirements? Not sure if that is true. Well here's hoping for 14.4v by tomorrow morning. I will report on. The results shortly.

sierrafery · Oct 11, 2015

If you've got that 12.4v voltage with engine running your charging system is fubar'd not the battery, anyway for a D2 you need a min 100AH/900CCA battery but as long as the alternator doesnt work well it doesnt matter

ldrego · Oct 11, 2015

Interesting that. I have had no real starting problems at all bit that could be because we have had a mild winter last year and a decent summer.
Does anyone else on here run a battery with less than the 900 cca and if so, have you experienced problems eg starting, amigos etc?

sierrafery · Oct 11, 2015

you better concentrate on the rest of my message, no matter what battery you have as long as the 3 amigos are coming on while driving cos then the alternator feeds the systems, i just told what's the required battery power to not let you down not that it's power can affect 3 amigos or something, as long as you can start the car with any battery then it has nothing to do with any dash warnings whartsoever

brian47 · Oct 11, 2015

TBH this is the first time I've ever heard of somebody chasing battery/charging problems because of the '3 Amigos'. The first thing I would advise anybody with that problem, even if it pops up intermittently is get it onto a diagnostic set and read the fault codes.
Doing anything else is just shooting in the dark and can be even more expensive.

ldrego · Oct 11, 2015

brian47 said:
TBH this is the first time I've ever heard of somebody chasing battery/charging problems because of the '3 Amigos'. The first thing I would advise anybody with that problem, even if it pops up intermittently is get it onto a diagnostic set and read the fault codes.
Doing anything else is just shooting in the dark and can be even more expensive.

The diagnostics have pointed to the passenger front sensor and the shuttle valve . The left sensor has been replaced twice. Shuttle valve. Not touched as I had not got round to that and it was quite expensive I believe. Sierraferry had suggested cleaning the electrical contacts at the slabs but again been mega busy with other things whilst I have the weather.
The reason why I thought batteryis simply because two of my other cars shut down the traction control and abs when the battery is low. Sounds plausible then that if the battery on my discovery is weak then it could possibly shut down the traction control etc. I'll give you my honest feedback on whether this has worked but this problem has been with me I one form or another for 6 months and today ... Nothing. I would have expected the lights to have come on at least once today. I have had 6 journeys so far and usually it shows up within 2.

brian47 · Oct 11, 2015

If the diagnostics pointed to "Shuttle Valve Electrical" then in the normal course of events it's the switches on the shuttle valve switch plate assembly or more likely to be the connector to the SVS plate. The connector cannot be repaired or replaced without stripping the whole assembly down. It's highly unlikely to be the actual shuttle valve assembly.

However, the is a well known modification which can be carried out to the SVS plate which can bypass the troublesome connector; cost, a couple of feet of wire, some crimp connectors and a couple of hours, done carefully you don't even have to remove the shuttle valve assembly. Even replacing the switch plate the cost is about thirty quid.

To anybody who has the 3 Amigos show up, either permanently or intermittently whether they have diagnostics or not I would say do the modification first as last and if the symptoms still show up then you can get it onto a diagnostics set to find out what else it could be.

Google "SVS modification" for details. There's also loads about it here on the forum.

sierrafery · Oct 11, 2015

ldrego said:
The reason why I thought batteryis simply because two of my other cars shut down the traction control and abs when the battery is low. Sounds plausible then that if the battery on my discovery is weak then it could possibly shut down the traction control etc..

the highlighted part is complete nonsense... i explained previously why, i'm wondering though how did you conclude this enormity that a low battery can shut down anything while a car is running and the alternator makes it's job, or how do you know that the |cars shut down the TC and abs but not hdc and ebd too?

in a nutshell: for 3 amigos get the SVS fixed if that's the fault code, for low battery check the charging if the battery is not dead

biggles_butler · Oct 11, 2015

Cheapest through to most expensive fixes.
1. Shuttle valves
2. ABS sensors
3. ABS block

That's pretty much it. I recently had the ABS block replaced which cost £2k (fortunately under warranty!). You can carry out the ABS mod for a few quid - but it ultimately depends on what the issue is.
You say they come on during driving - this would suggest a wheel hub/sensor issue rather than the block itself which would be cause the 3 amigos to be on permanently.

ldrego · Oct 11, 2015

Hub was my next bet.

sierrafery · Oct 11, 2015

Why? ... i became really courious now to see some new theory about that after i found out what's the order of fixes

mikerajjers · Oct 12, 2015

I am no expert, but I had the three amigos on intermittently for ages. Hawkeye diagnosed the shuttle valve switch and after a search on youtube there is a good guide. Ordered myself a new switchboard (juts in case) and did the wiring mod. Took a couple of hours and quite easy after watching the video a couple of times. Do bear in mind I have hardly any in depth car maintenance knowledge and I could do it... so I am confident anyone can

ldrego · Oct 12, 2015

Well I can only report what I am finding and since slow charging the battery up and putting it back in, no,3 amigos . I have had these things causing me a problem since I got the car. It may be that a failing battery or alternator could result in the three amigos . I wouldn't rush to poo poo it just because you haven't seen it before. I' would have normally seen the warning lights come on at least per two short journeys.

ldrego · Oct 12, 2015

Thanks a million for the video mike.

sierrafery · Oct 12, 2015

ldrego said:
Well I can only report what I am finding and since slow charging the battery up and putting it back in, no,3 amigos . I have had these things causing me a problem since I got the car. It may be that a failing battery or alternator could result in the three amigos . I wouldn't rush to poo poo it just because you haven't seen it before. I' would have normally seen the warning lights come on at least per two short journeys.

i was just trying to use a constructive sarcasm to lead you on the right track not to offend... if i did i apologise but even the fact that a more charged battery was a benefit sends also to a charging issue, i see that now you improved the theory cos you mentioned failing alternator too not just battery as before and as long as the battery holds the external charging i say again... it can't have any involvment in the 3 amigos cos when the engine is running the alternator MUST take over the whole load as long as there's not some huge drain which ecxeeds it's power but then it should blow a fuse... so IMO even if it appears coincidentally that the battery can cause that there's no logical or technical support for that... though with a LR everything is possible, if you want to get rid of that symptom measure at least the stationary drain and the voltage with engine running and report back

GingerPuss · Oct 12, 2015

My alternator is fine - I measure about 14v at fast idle at battery. The battery is however on its last legs - needs recharging every week. A current discharge test shows only 20ma drain. The battery has crusty deposits around caps where you can top up with distilled water. I have 3-amigos. Diagnostics suggested shuttlevalve which was done ( but no wiring mod). Despite this, 3-amigos return, but will go away after a good run (engine restarted) after battery charged again. If I get stuck in traffic with radio on etc it returns.

sierrafery · Oct 12, 2015

if only the SVS switch pack was replaced and no wiring mod it's not fixed, here's the explanation https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/the-dreaded-three-amigos.284839/#post-3513501 , as long as the alternator is delivering constant 14V i dont see any reason for 3 amigos to come on unless the battery develops some internal short while driving and drains the alternator too much or the diode pack is gone and there's too much sine wave in the current

ldrego · Oct 12, 2015

No offence taken sierraferry. I have got used to your style of posting. ;-) anyway back to the point. Let's say you have failing glow plugs sucking up a whole load of energy , more so then the battery can supply or that the actual battery is not able to produce the correct power output to cope with the drain? Just thinking out aloud here. I think there may be a lot of discos running with a cheap battery which may not fulfil the original specs due to cost savings or as you said the alternator is failing but then the battery would struggle to start the car... My thoughts failing glow plugs and duff battery.

ldrego · Oct 12, 2015

GingerPuss said:
My alternator is fine - I measure about 14v at fast idle at battery. The battery is however on its last legs - needs recharging every week. A current discharge test shows only 20ma drain. The battery has crusty deposits around caps where you can top up with distilled water. I have 3-amigos. Diagnostics suggested shuttlevalve which was done ( but no wiring mod). Despite this, 3-amigos return, but will go away after a good run (engine restarted) after battery charged again. If I get stuck in traffic with radio on etc it returns.

Could you check the specs of your battery and errr... Get a new battery? Would love to know if this sorts it out. Also do your glow plugs work well?

ldrego · Oct 12, 2015

GingerPuss said:
My alternator is fine - I measure about 14v at fast idle at battery. The battery is however on its last legs - needs recharging every week. A current discharge test shows only 20ma drain. The battery has crusty deposits around caps where you can top up with distilled water. I have 3-amigos. Diagnostics suggested shuttlevalve which was done ( but no wiring mod). Despite this, 3-amigos return, but will go away after a good run (engine restarted) after battery charged again. If I get stuck in traffic with radio on etc it returns.

Do you have the smell of diesel in your oil or are you burning oil? Sierraferry I am formulating a thought but it would be interesting to know if ginger puss has similar symptoms. All very exciting.

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