N

Neptune94rrc

Member
Hi hoping someone can advise me please.
94 range rover classic 3.9v8 auto.
Started and moved out of my garage yesterday morning ist time it had been started in a month. Left running for e few mins. It turned over e few times before firing whichvwas unusual but i put fown to stale fuel as it has been unused for a while.
Anyway it started and moved, but yesterday evening when came to put it away it wouldnt start. Quick check as it was dark. No spark.
So thus morning i check my Rave cd and ran through the voltage tests.all ok with the exception of
Test between battery +ve and coil -ve with ign off. I measured battery voltage Rave suggested i should see 0v. With ign on i measured 0.1v .

Is this significant ?

Thanks
 
When this happens to me
The first thing I try is starter fluid in the intake to see if it hits
If no
It’s a spark problem
If yes a fuel problem
If spark problem
I then replace cap an rotor
I would think it’s the cap and rotor
 
Neptune94rrc said:
Thanks. It definitely a spark issue. No spark from plug leads or from coil lead to disi cap.
Click to expand...
Do u have an immobiliser as part of your security system? Start testing and don’t guess and replace parts unnecessarily.
To start with installed a temporary link between battery + to coil + and see if the engine starts.
 
^^^^What discool says.

If you do pull the rotor arm off be sure to press down on the reluctor - the star shaped thing under the rotor - as you pull or you can disengage the auto advance/retard mech in the bottom of the dizzy & it won't run at all. To check turn the rotor arm with your fingers, When released it should go smartly back to its original position.
Don't use the rotor arms with the metal bit riveted to the plastic.
 
I Do have the factory fit immobiliser. I believe it is only set from the remote for central locking which i never use.

Have done some more investigation this afternoon. Fuel pump runs for 2 seconds when ignition is first switched to position 2. I checked the plugs after cranking and all are dry.

So am guessing that there must be a link from the coil to the ECU so that if theres no spark, it doesnt over fuel and flood or may be visa versa.

Not sure what to do next but, i think i may order a replacement ignition amp as its the cheapest part to start swapping out.
 
Of all the many things that will cause a non-start most of them don't suddenly occur. If it's been running & now spinning over but won't fire I'd start with the immobiliser.
 
This happens from time to time.

Lets get some stuff out of the way first. If there is no spark you might not get fuel because the ecu won't fire the injectors if it doesn't get a run signal which comes from the coil.

I doubt it is the immobiliser because the engine turns over.

Try listening for the relays before starting. The relays are under the drivers seat. Turn the key to the ignition "on" position and listen carefully for the main efi and fuel pump relays, you should hear them one after the other, you could also put your hand on the relays and feel for them operating. The loss of one or other relay will stop the fuel injection working. BTW you will hear a third relay - this is the one for the ABS system.

Pop the dizzy cap check for condensation - give a wipe out and a spray with WD40. Pop the rotor arm off and give it a clean. Now, remove the king lead from the top of the dizzy, get somebody to crank the engine while you hold (with insulated pliers) the end of the king lead close to a good ground - you should get a stream of fat sparks. If not then the problem could be the ignition amplifier.

The other part of the ignition system that might cause no sparks is the pick up inside the dizzy. I've not had one die but I suppose it is possible. It does the same job as points in an old style dizzy so if it doesn't work, the LT field doesn't collapse to trigger the HT pulse. The pick-up needs to have a small air gap, 0.2mm IIRC, this can be set by using a piece of paper folded in half used as a feeler gauge to set clearance.

If you get good sparks then re-attach the king lead and see what happens. If no fire then suspect rotor arm.

If you get to a point you have sparks and fuel but still no start, mark the position of the distributor then slacken the dizzy clamp and turn the dizzy to advance the ignition timing, this should get it fired, once it has been warmed through, return the ignition timing to where it should be.

HTH
 
classic kev said:
Pop the dizzy cap check for condensation - give a wipe out and a spray with WD40. Pop the rotor arm off and give it a clean. Now, remove the king lead from the top of the dizzy, get somebody to crank the engine while you hold (with insulated pliers) the end of the king lead close to a good ground - you should get a stream of fat sparks. If not then the problem could be the ignition amplifier.

If you get good sparks then re-attach the king lead and see what happens. If no fire then suspect rotor arm.
Click to expand...
Bear in mind my warning about rotor arm removal.
If you get good sparks with the end of the king lead near a good earth repeat with the rotor arm fitted & holding the end of the king lead a few mm above the centre of the rotor arm. If you get good sparks the rotor arm is defective & the current is earthing through it.
 
I had this problem, just once, with my 3.5efi.
Just cranked over & over, so I left it alone for a couple of days then got a neighbour to listen for the fuel pump running (or not) whilst I cranked the engine. I felt such a plonker because as soon as I turned the key the bloody thing fired up & I've never had the same problem again o_O
NB: re. classic kev's advice, I don't know about LR's immobiliser spec. but I have had cars whose IMB allowed the engine to crank but not fire.
 
classic kev said:
This happens from time to time.

Lets get some stuff out of the way first. If there is no spark you might not get fuel because the ecu won't fire the injectors if it doesn't get a run signal which comes from the coil.

I doubt it is the immobiliser because the engine turns over.

Try listening for the relays before starting. The relays are under the drivers seat. Turn the key to the ignition "on" position and listen carefully for the main efi and fuel pump relays, you should hear them one after the other, you could also put your hand on the relays and feel for them operating. The loss of one or other relay will stop the fuel injection working. BTW you will hear a third relay - this is the one for the ABS system.

Pop the dizzy cap check for condensation - give a wipe out and a spray with WD40. Pop the rotor arm off and give it a clean. Now, remove the king lead from the top of the dizzy, get somebody to crank the engine while you hold (with insulated pliers) the end of the king lead close to a good ground - you should get a stream of fat sparks. If not then the problem could be the ignition amplifier.

The other part of the ignition system that might cause no sparks is the pick up inside the dizzy. I've not had one die but I suppose it is possible. It does the same job as points in an old style dizzy so if it doesn't work, the LT field doesn't collapse to trigger the HT pulse. The pick-up needs to have a small air gap, 0.2mm IIRC, this can be set by using a piece of paper folded in half used as a feeler gauge to set clearance.

If you get good sparks then re-attach the king lead and see what happens. If no fire then suspect rotor arm.

If you get to a point you have sparks and fuel but still no start, mark the position of the distributor then slacken the dizzy clamp and turn the dizzy to advance the ignition timing, this should get it fired, once it has been warmed through, return the ignition timing to where it should be.

HTH
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for the comprehensive reply.
I did all those tests. Fuel pump runs for approx 2-3 seconds when ignition is switched on . No spark from the king lead and no fuel getting to the plugs.

Will check the other relays but I have ordered a new amplifier as it seems to be the link between fuel delivery and spark.

Does anyone know which colour leads go from amplifier plug to distributor ? I'd like to check for broken wires.

Blue which is connected to the -ve side of coil is a direct link to 1 of the pins blac/white resistance measures mega ohms to another terminal can't find the 3rd - i'm guessing it goes to the ecu ?

A wiring diagram would be really handy if anyone knows where i could get hold of one from .
 
norseman said:
Of all the many things that will cause a non-start most of them don't suddenly occur. If it's been running & now spinning over but won't fire I'd start with the immobiliser.
Click to expand...
Thanks i wish could but i have no idea how to check it or where to find the information. Rave has no details that i could find.

Any info would be much appreciated
 
Western Slope Rover said:
When something similar happened to my '93 LSE it turned out to be the coil at fault.
Click to expand...
Thanks the coil will be 2nd on the list to swap . I have found a brand new lucas coil that i ordered but did'nt use on a previous v8.
Is this interchangeable with the bosch unit ?

Coil specs seem non existent these days !
 
norseman said:
I had this problem, just once, with my 3.5efi.
Just cranked over & over, so I left it alone for a couple of days then got a neighbour to listen for the fuel pump running (or not) whilst I cranked the engine. I felt such a plonker because as soon as I turned the key the bloody thing fired up & I've never had the same problem again o_O
NB: re. classic kev's advice, I don't know about LR's immobiliser spec. but I have had cars whose IMB allowed the engine to crank but not fire.
Click to expand...

This would be my worst nightmare! Never knowing why and waiting for it to happen again.
 
Neptune94rrc said:
Thanks the coil will be 2nd on the list to swap . I have found a brand new lucas coil that i ordered but did'nt use on a previous v8.
Is this interchangeable with the bosch unit ?

Coil specs seem non existent these days !
Click to expand...
I'd try it. The one I purchased here in the States was an aftermarket coil from O'Reilly's and it's been working for years.
 
Last edited:
O.K. then, if you jump over in to the V8 engines section and do a search for ignition tests you should find a whole load of threads and posts about ignition problems, misfires and no start.

Don't forget that it may not be a component fault - check wiring and connectors. The connectors that go on to the coil terminals go hard and brittle and corrode over time. It could be the case there is a duff connector, if the connectors look green or the wires are hard and brittle, cut the wires back to sound, flexible and clean copper, put on new spade connectors and re-attach.

Check the connections to the ignition amplifier and if it gets really drastic, open the loom and check the condition of the splice for the 12v feed to the ignition amplifier and the coil as they are common.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
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