Just one final thought (I can't help me'self 
but I've seen it mentioned on other injector-related threads (mainly Disco ones granted) that the ecu may need programming depending on the codes that are present on the top of the injector?
Just wondered how true that is as I'll obv need to be careful when ordering a new one...
but I've seen it mentioned on other injector-related threads (mainly Disco ones granted) that the ecu may need programming depending on the codes that are present on the top of the injector?Just wondered how true that is as I'll obv need to be careful when ordering a new one...
4x4Dog
Active Member
Nope, TD4 injectors don't need the ECU to be reprogrammed. Any TD4 injector will do.Just one final thought (I can't help me'self
Just wondered how true that is as I'll obv need to be careful when ordering a new one...
Ok so spent a bit more time on the car this evening, doing some more poking about, trial and error etc.
1) Oil level - I may have to re-name the thread. For some inexplicable reason, the oil level now appears to be back to normal (just under max), whereas last Friday evening, it seemed massively overfilled?! Surely there could not be any massively increased pressure in the crankcase to make the level rise, as I only replaced the PCV valve a month or so ago. Anyway, that can only be a good thing, and it affirms my belief that the oil looks and smells fine. It was a good two hours + since the car was turned off so the oil level must be back to normal now.
2) Injectors - with the engine cranking, I disconnected the electric plugs to each to see if there was one that wasn't performing properly, and lo-and-behold, the engine grumbled like a mother trucker when they were disconnected individually. So far so good there, then. Also did a leak back test (ignition on but not cranking, leak back pipe off and clamped) and even after 20 seconds there was barely any leakage from the top of all four injectors.
3) Misfire - looking into this a bit more, I'm not even sure this is a full misfire, if there is such a thing. When stationary, there is no sign of anything amiss when holding the revs at up to 2,000rpm, whereas between 2,000-3,000rpm there is a distinct (but not hugely noticeable) grumble from what sounds more like the exhaust and what sounds like one of the cylinders is missing ever so slightly. But, the effect is nothing like when I disconnected the injector supply above, nowhere near. The fuel pressure sensor has been changed recently too, plus a new wiring harness, so can't (rather shouldn't) be that.
So realising this above, and having had email correspondence from Bob from Diesel Bob UK who has said it doesn't sound like an injector issue to him, and for some reason with the airbag cover off my attention turned to the MAF. This is where I (might) have had a breakthrough.
Going on Nik Rivers' suggestion - http://www.nikrivers.com/freelander-td4/maf-sensor/ - I unplugged the MAF and ran a mile or two down the road. To my surprise, there was an imperceptible difference, possibly zero, on performance, low rev pick-up and power further up the rev range. So now I am wondering if the MAF is either kaput, on its way out or needs some connector cleaning spray.
BUT - I thought I had read somewhere on here that the MAF is essentially redundant if you have blanked your EGR? I have, so wondered if that was true.
To summarise
Be great if anyone has any thoughts on what might be causing the morning 'cough' and smoke and the slight grumble at 2000rpm. The rest of it I'll keep a close eye on, mainly the oil level to be fully sure.
Sorry for taking up half your evening with this...
Thanks in advance
1) Oil level - I may have to re-name the thread. For some inexplicable reason, the oil level now appears to be back to normal (just under max), whereas last Friday evening, it seemed massively overfilled?! Surely there could not be any massively increased pressure in the crankcase to make the level rise, as I only replaced the PCV valve a month or so ago. Anyway, that can only be a good thing, and it affirms my belief that the oil looks and smells fine. It was a good two hours + since the car was turned off so the oil level must be back to normal now.
2) Injectors - with the engine cranking, I disconnected the electric plugs to each to see if there was one that wasn't performing properly, and lo-and-behold, the engine grumbled like a mother trucker when they were disconnected individually. So far so good there, then. Also did a leak back test (ignition on but not cranking, leak back pipe off and clamped) and even after 20 seconds there was barely any leakage from the top of all four injectors.
3) Misfire - looking into this a bit more, I'm not even sure this is a full misfire, if there is such a thing. When stationary, there is no sign of anything amiss when holding the revs at up to 2,000rpm, whereas between 2,000-3,000rpm there is a distinct (but not hugely noticeable) grumble from what sounds more like the exhaust and what sounds like one of the cylinders is missing ever so slightly. But, the effect is nothing like when I disconnected the injector supply above, nowhere near. The fuel pressure sensor has been changed recently too, plus a new wiring harness, so can't (rather shouldn't) be that.
So realising this above, and having had email correspondence from Bob from Diesel Bob UK who has said it doesn't sound like an injector issue to him, and for some reason with the airbag cover off my attention turned to the MAF. This is where I (might) have had a breakthrough.
Going on Nik Rivers' suggestion - http://www.nikrivers.com/freelander-td4/maf-sensor/ - I unplugged the MAF and ran a mile or two down the road. To my surprise, there was an imperceptible difference, possibly zero, on performance, low rev pick-up and power further up the rev range. So now I am wondering if the MAF is either kaput, on its way out or needs some connector cleaning spray.
BUT - I thought I had read somewhere on here that the MAF is essentially redundant if you have blanked your EGR? I have, so wondered if that was true.
To summarise
- starts fine but on cold start-up, takes a few seconds to clear its throat (5-10 secs maybe) accompanied by a pretty big belch of whitey-blue smoke, which also clears after the same few seconds. After this, runs fine. Possible injector issue, despite my findings above?
- slight 'misfire' or 'grumbling' as mentioned above 2-3k rpm - I am still wondering if this is a slightly dirty injector nozzle or something?
- MAF seems to have no difference when unplugged, though as above not sure if it is redundant when EGR is bypassed? Unsure if faulty MAF will display any of these issues above that I am experiencing
- I THOUGHT that the oil level was rising again last weekend, but now it seems to read between min and max on the dipstick. Fu*k knows what's gone off there, but seems that is no longer an issue.
- Coolant level does go down slowly, but I think this is a small leak somewhere in the coolant system as opposed to head gasket. The car is showing no other symptoms of HFG whatsoever (no oil in coolant and vice versa, no steam out of exhaust, no increased running temps etc, no mayo around expansion tank or oil filler cap)
- General running of the car, other than first few seconds each morning, is spot on. MPG is very good, expect 40+, power is decent especially since EGR was blanked.
Be great if anyone has any thoughts on what might be causing the morning 'cough' and smoke and the slight grumble at 2000rpm. The rest of it I'll keep a close eye on, mainly the oil level to be fully sure.
Sorry for taking up half your evening with this...
Thanks in advance
redwood
Active Member
Let's say you switch your engine off, pop the bonnet and check your oil level you will find it spot on for argument sake, go and make a cuppa and re-check the oil level and I bet your bottom dollar that the oil level has gone up. Why you may ask yourself, because it takes a couple of minutes for all the oil in the head to eventually work it's way down into the sump.
As for the misfire over 2000rpm will probably be an injector, you can do all the leak off tests you like but it will not show up some faults, don't get them all repaired just buy a new one and try swapping it around until you find you no longer have the fault. (hopefully)
As for the misfire over 2000rpm will probably be an injector, you can do all the leak off tests you like but it will not show up some faults, don't get them all repaired just buy a new one and try swapping it around until you find you no longer have the fault. (hopefully)
Thanks redwood - re: the oil though, that's what I'm saying, when i checked last night it was fine, whereas on Friday night it seemed much higher on the dipstick. Not a bit higher - MUCH higher. So, last night I checked after my little tinkering session, and then about 2hours later before bed to ensure all the oil had fallen back into the sump as you said, and it was pretty much spot on the max. mark where I had left it back in November. Very odd, but it is what it is.
So now, my next plan of action is to buy some electrical connector spray cleaner and see if that helps the MAF, as I just thought it was weird how, when unplugged last night, there was no discernible difference in performance whatsoever. But again, I don't know if the EGR being blanked has any bearing on this (???)
Also, diesel Bob who I mentioned above tests injectors from £15+VAT each so I think it's worth pinging them off to him to test in due course and see if there is something up with one.
So now, my next plan of action is to buy some electrical connector spray cleaner and see if that helps the MAF, as I just thought it was weird how, when unplugged last night, there was no discernible difference in performance whatsoever. But again, I don't know if the EGR being blanked has any bearing on this (???)
Also, diesel Bob who I mentioned above tests injectors from £15+VAT each so I think it's worth pinging them off to him to test in due course and see if there is something up with one.
davidsmith1307
Well-Known Member
Careful, you may trigger another 'What does the MAF do, EGR etc?' sh1tstorm.
According to RAVE the MAF (+others) is used "to determine the correct fuel quantity to be injected into the cylinders. It is also used as a feedback signal for the EGR system"
If your MAF is stuffed then your fuelling will be stuffed too.
According to RAVE the MAF (+others) is used "to determine the correct fuel quantity to be injected into the cylinders. It is also used as a feedback signal for the EGR system"
If your MAF is stuffed then your fuelling will be stuffed too.
I know i saw the one the other day that kicked off somewhat - but sh1tstorms aside, there must be a right and a wrong answer, it can't be both.
Looking at these other threads though where people have the slight misfire at 2000rpm+ and greyish/white smoke, looks unlikely it in injector related.
hmmmm
Looking at these other threads though where people have the slight misfire at 2000rpm+ and greyish/white smoke, looks unlikely it in injector related.
hmmmm
davidsmith1307
Well-Known Member
If unplugging the MAF makes no difference then I suggest you DO need a new one as your fuelling will be all over the shop. Not cheap though.
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
The MAF does have an influence on fueling. Not only to the actual quantity of fuel delivered but also in the way it's delivered. The TD4 has multiple injection stages per firing stroke. The fuel delivery is split into pre and main stages. The amount of fuel delivered in each stage can be altered and the time at which it's injected is also altered using signals from various sensors including the MAF. So if the MAF isn't given a decent signal, the ECU doesn't know what to do, hence it doesn't run the engine correctly.
Ignore anything anyone says to the contrary.
The MAP is an important part of the data used to fuel the engine
Ignore anything anyone says to the contrary.
The MAP is an important part of the data used to fuel the engine
Yeah stinks of diesel, then clears after 10 seconds or so like so many other people seem to be having.
106k now so she's getting on - I am thinking £100 or so to get the injectors fully tested might be a good shout. Thing is, on the other threads so many people are having the same issue as me and have changed/overhauled their injectors but to no avail...
106k now so she's getting on - I am thinking £100 or so to get the injectors fully tested might be a good shout. Thing is, on the other threads so many people are having the same issue as me and have changed/overhauled their injectors but to no avail...
It's just one of those things in the cold weather ... a little overfuelling happens to the best of us ...
If you think an injector check is worth it ... fine ... it'll pay back in the long run as you know they're right ...
davidsmith1307
Well-Known Member
106k is just run in! Many 10s of thousands of miles to go if you keep up with maintenance!
