C

Coffeemonster

Member
Hi everybody, I have a question for the hive mind. I have an '04 Freelander 1 with the Td4 engine, love it to bits, its very reliable having done 134k - but, being retired and on a pension I'm finding it a bit thirsty. Currently I'm getting about 32mpg with premium diesel, maybe 34-35 on a motorway run

I was idly looking on Ebay and saw a Freelander 2 Td4e which has had the rear propshaft removed and the seller claims it will do 48mpg on a run, and this of course with an an engine capacity thats 10% bigger than mine. Emphasis on the word 'claims'. I'm not going to buy it - I know my car very well and any secondhand car is a gamble as to what you get, especially on eBay. But it started me thinking - I don't go off-road and I don't really need the 4-wheel drive. What if I had the rear propshaft removed to convert my car to 2-wheel drive? Does anybody know:

1) What would be the likely realistic benefit in fuel consumption?
2) Are there any downsides other than losing the 4-wheel drive?
3) Roughly what would be the cost of having the work done, because there's obviously a cost/benefit consideration. (I'm 76, too old to be skulking around under a vehicle and waving spanner at something I only vaguely understand).

I'll put a crash helmet on, to be ready for the bricks thrown by the purists...
 
Good questions, interestingly my TD4 auto (the worst) does 39 to 40 mpg on a run.
So, maybe worth getting the VCU on the 4 wheel drive checked for tightness. A simple test is to reverse with full lock and see if the vehicle stops. If so it is too tight and needs a replacement VCU. There is a one wheel up test that will confirm it, search for the pinned links.

To answer your questions:
1. None unless the VCU is too tight. You only save the weight of the VCU and propshaft removal, so nothing.
2. Vehicle stability and insurance will be invalid unless you advise them but many will reject as non standard. No 4WD for winter safety.
3. Remove propshaft and VCU is about 1 hours work, so check labour costs but 50 to 100 quid. You could sell the propshaft for about that !!

Take your crash helmet off, we are a great bunch with just a couple.of exceptions that you may have noticed !!

Welcome to the forum
 
First off my Freelander 2 TD4 will do 45 MPG on a steady 65 MPH run. I'd expect the FL2.e to do a bit more more than mine, being it's an economy model.

Now to answer your questions.
1) In a word, no. There's such a small gain by removing the propshaft it's almost unmeasurable. Any economy gains are going to be due to the removal of 25 Kg of weight, not disabling the AWD system itself.
2) Possibly, as many insurance companies consider it a notifiable modification, and can increase the policy cost as a result.
3) It's about 30 minutes work to remove the propshaft, although if it's working correctly, it's 30 minutes wasted.
 
Coffeemonster said:
Hi everybody, I have a question for the hive mind. I have an '04 Freelander 1 with the Td4 engine, love it to bits, its very reliable having done 134k - but, being retired and on a pension I'm finding it a bit thirsty. Currently I'm getting about 32mpg with premium diesel, maybe 34-35 on a motorway run

I was idly looking on Ebay and saw a Freelander 2 Td4e which has had the rear propshaft removed and the seller claims it will do 48mpg on a run, and this of course with an an engine capacity thats 10% bigger than mine. Emphasis on the word 'claims'. I'm not going to buy it - I know my car very well and any secondhand car is a gamble as to what you get, especially on eBay. But it started me thinking - I don't go off-road and I don't really need the 4-wheel drive. What if I had the rear propshaft removed to convert my car to 2-wheel drive? Does anybody know:

1) What would be the likely realistic benefit in fuel consumption?
2) Are there any downsides other than losing the 4-wheel drive?
3) Roughly what would be the cost of having the work done, because there's obviously a cost/benefit consideration. (I'm 76, too old to be skulking around under a vehicle and waving spanner at something I only vaguely understand).

I'll put a crash helmet on, to be ready for the bricks thrown by the purists...
Click to expand...
Dunno how much fuel economy improvement you'd see from removing the props - but it will be small - unless the car has other transmission issues.

From you're point of view, probably the biggest benefit from removing the props would likely be to lower the chances of having expensive repair bills. With the props installed, and if not checked/maintained perfectly (ie VCU and tyre health) you run the ricks of expensive bills.

Removing the props significantly lowers the chances. Obviously at the cost of reducing the car's capability in slippery conditions.

Miner's been 2WD for 10 years and boringly reliable with no significant bills. Obviously that can't be guaranteed.
 
Thanks for those answers guys. I did wonder if some of this extra fuel economy came from a lower drag on the engine but it sounds as though this isn't the case. I had the VCU changed for a new GKN unit when I got the car six years ago at 90k so I'd be surprised if its on the way out. And I'm surprised to learn that the Freelander 2 has better fuel economy than the 1 given that its the same engine bored out to a 10% bigger capacity. Mind you, I habitually do 70 on a motorway or where else permitted, and maybe that extra 5mph has a bigger effect than I'd expect.

Nodge, is your FL2 an auto or a manual? If I were to change mine for a 2 I'd like an auto...
andyfreelandy said:
Good questions, interestingly my TD4 auto (the worst) does 39 to 40 mpg on a run.
So, maybe worth getting the VCU on the 4 wheel drive checked for tightness. A simple test is to reverse with full lock and see if the vehicle stops. If so it is too tight and needs a replacement VCU. There is a one wheel up test that will confirm it, search for the pinned links.

To answer your questions:
1. None unless the VCU is too tight. You only save the weight of the VCU and propshaft removal, so nothing.
2. Vehicle stability and insurance will be invalid unless you advise them but many will reject as non standard. No 4WD for winter safety.
3. Remove propshaft and VCU is about 1 hours work, so check labour costs but 50 to 100 quid. You could sell the propshaft for about that !!

Take your crash helmet off, we are a great bunch with just a couple.of exceptions that you may have noticed !!

Welcome to the forum
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, and thanks for the welcome - although I've been here for a few years now...
 
Coffeemonster said:
Hi everybody, I have a question for the hive mind. I have an '04 Freelander 1 with the Td4 engine, love it to bits, its very reliable having done 134k - but, being retired and on a pension I'm finding it a bit thirsty. Currently I'm getting about 32mpg with premium diesel, maybe 34-35 on a motorway run

I was idly looking on Ebay and saw a Freelander 2 Td4e which has had the rear propshaft removed and the seller claims it will do 48mpg on a run, and this of course with an an engine capacity thats 10% bigger than mine. Emphasis on the word 'claims'. I'm not going to buy it - I know my car very well and any secondhand car is a gamble as to what you get, especially on eBay. But it started me thinking - I don't go off-road and I don't really need the 4-wheel drive. What if I had the rear propshaft removed to convert my car to 2-wheel drive? Does anybody know:

1) What would be the likely realistic benefit in fuel consumption?
2) Are there any downsides other than losing the 4-wheel drive?
3) Roughly what would be the cost of having the work done, because there's obviously a cost/benefit consideration. (I'm 76, too old to be skulking around under a vehicle and waving spanner at something I only vaguely understand).

I'll put a crash helmet on, to be ready for the bricks thrown by the purists...
Click to expand...
There probably would be a small gain in mpg. But I'd doubt anything significant tbh. How many miles are you doing a month/year?

The mpg on our Td4 improved after having the VCU done. Have managed over 40mpg on a run. And running about this month (bit off roading, short journeys and driving hard) it has done 33-34mpg.

As for the figures.

I think diesel is about £1.60'ish a litre or nearly £7.30 gallon.

If say you are doing 6000 miles a year. Or 500 miles a month.

If we say you are seeing a 33mpg overall, that is 15.16 gallons/month or £110.67/month.

IF you got a 10% mpg improvement to 36.3mpg that would be13.78 gallons or £100.69/month. So a £10/month saving.

Not saying you wouldn't see more, but I'd need convincing you'd see more than 10% gains. Even 20% would only be about £20/month. I know over a year it adds up. But the difference isn't huge.

If you are doing more like 20,000 miles a year. Then yes, a 10-20% mpg improvement would be more noticeable. Although it might just be easier to simply do less miles in this case.

:)
 
I have the same Fl2 as nodge just different colours. The fuel economy is fab on my manual. Even running rich it still gave me 28mpg. For the vehicles I've had that was always the average and the 2 it's very conservative on fuel use. However every tak full it gets I put some Wynn's in it to keep things clean and running right.
With removing the prop I see more disadvantages of it than anything you can gain.
 
Coffeemonster said:
Thanks for those answers guys. I did wonder if some of this extra fuel economy came from a lower drag on the engine but it sounds as though this isn't the case. I had the VCU changed for a new GKN unit when I got the car six years ago at 90k so I'd be surprised if its on the way out. And I'm surprised to learn that the Freelander 2 has better fuel economy than the 1 given that its the same engine bored out to a 10% bigger capacity. Mind you, I habitually do 70 on a motorway or where else permitted, and maybe that extra 5mph has a bigger effect than I'd expect.

Nodge, is your FL2 an auto or a manual? If I were to change mine for a 2 I'd like an auto...

Thanks for that, and thanks for the welcome - although I've been here for a few years now...
Click to expand...
The Freelander 2 doesn't have the same engine as the FL1.
The FL1 TD4 is from BMW, called the M47R which was good when it was first developed.
The FL2 TD4 is from PSA (Peugeot/Citroën/Ford) called the DW12, it's much more advanced and more powerful being a later design.
The better fuel economy is down to several factors, better aerodynamics (dispite it's larger dimensions), higher gear ratios, and the more powerful, more fuel efficient engine.
Mine is a manual, but the automatic gives similar economy on the motorway, slightly less road town. Rumour has it that the most powerful version of the FL2 (the SD4) has the best economy.
 
Coffeemonster said:
Hi everybody, I have a question for the hive mind. I have an '04 Freelander 1 with the Td4 engine, love it to bits, its very reliable having done 134k - but, being retired and on a pension I'm finding it a bit thirsty. Currently I'm getting about 32mpg with premium diesel, maybe 34-35 on a motorway run

I was idly looking on Ebay and saw a Freelander 2 Td4e which has had the rear propshaft removed and the seller claims it will do 48mpg on a run, and this of course with an an engine capacity thats 10% bigger than mine. Emphasis on the word 'claims'. I'm not going to buy it - I know my car very well and any secondhand car is a gamble as to what you get, especially on eBay. But it started me thinking - I don't go off-road and I don't really need the 4-wheel drive. What if I had the rear propshaft removed to convert my car to 2-wheel drive? Does anybody know:

1) What would be the likely realistic benefit in fuel consumption?
2) Are there any downsides other than losing the 4-wheel drive?
3) Roughly what would be the cost of having the work done, because there's obviously a cost/benefit consideration. (I'm 76, too old to be skulking around under a vehicle and waving spanner at something I only vaguely understand).

I'll put a crash helmet on, to be ready for the bricks thrown by the purists...
Click to expand...
Mine (TD4 Auto) is currently 2wd with the propshafts etc all removed and I'm getting roughly 38mpg on long runs, so as I understand not any better than 4wd.

I bought mine like this but am planning on returning it to 4wd next year at some point.
 
My 2.0L TD4 wouldn't get any where near 38mpg unless I pushed it off a cliff........now funnily enough......

Actually if my turbo has been acting up for a while that would probably explain the poor fuel economy.
 
Nodge68 said:
Oh yes. I missed that bit.
Premium diesel makes no noticeable difference in MPG on my FL2, so there's no point in spending the extra money on it.
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean it isn't true for other diesels though. And as you highlighted above, the FL2's engine is not the same as the one in the FL1. There are also other benefits to the premium diesel too.

That said, I haven't personally run the FL1 on premium diesel myself. But I have used the Shell V-Power diesel in the past and vehicles did appear to run smoother on it. And in the case of a Pug 106 diesel I did notice better mpg too.
 
the way i see it, premium diesel cetane number is the same as regular, so it wont burn any differently, nor will it have any extra energy per litre of fuel, so it can't give you more bang
it can't help with cleaning out the EGR or manifold as any extra detergent is already burnt at this point
it may help keep the pump/injectors clean but i dont think anyone has been able to confirm it will clean or otherwise improve performance on already gummed up parts
there can be added lubricant which might make an engine sound smoother
 
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