[2008Freelander]

SOLVED: It was the cam sensor.

2008 FL2, petrol 3.2, battery 13.6V (fully charged), ambient temperature 60°F/15.5°C., sunny dry day

* Cold start fine
* Drive 8km at 40-50 km/h
* Shut off engine, immediate restart is fine
* Shop for 15 minutes. Come out.
* Engine turns over strongly but does not start
* Push button ignition does not allow continual cranking
* Various attempts over 10 minutes
* Then I notice it sounds like it was trying to catch
* Start variations on pumping the accelerator pedal - sometime with starter engaged, others not
* After about ten times, with some in a push button 1-2 and others push 1 and wait, it sounds a bit more like the engine is trying to catch
* One final push sounds as if it is almost there
* Next starts fine, runs normal

This suggests when warm the fuel injection system is not getting enough petrol into the engine. Some threads say vapour lock, but they tend to be Australia, not a subtropical, high-pressure day in New Zealand winter. Others point to the fuel filter and the fuel pump. Checking with the previous owner, she says it only happened once. She had not used the car in months, took it to her mechanic to do the Warrant of Fitness and it would not start. Then 10 minutes later it started fine. No diagnosis, instead she sold me the car (at a price that factored in these issues).

Other suggestions are the crank sensor or cam sensor. Video talk about cam sensor suggests the engine will not run as smoothly. In this case, the engine runs fine as soon as it starts.

I returned home, shut it down for an hour or two, then went out to check OBD codes. By now it is night (cooler) and it started right up. The only two codes are related to air conditioning and infotainment, nothing that would suggest fuel or ignition.

My sense is fuel is not getting to the engine. Something causes starvation after warm run and shut down. It is unclear if trying to start for a few minutes has anything to do with it.

Any thoughts?

 

[Freddie17]

2008 FL2, petrol 3.2, battery 13.6V (fully charged), ambient temperature 60°F/15.5°C., sunny dry day

* Cold start fine
* Drive 8km at 40-50 km/h
* Shut off engine, immediate restart is fine
* Shop for 15 minutes. Come out.
* Engine turns over strongly but does not start
* Push button ignition does not allow continual cranking
* Various attempts over 10 minutes
* Then I notice it sounds like it was trying to catch
* Start variations on pumping the accelerator pedal - sometime with starter engaged, others not
* After about ten times, with some in a push button 1-2 and others push 1 and wait, it sounds a bit more like the engine is trying to catch
* One final push sounds as if it is almost there
* Next starts fine, runs normal

This suggests when warm the fuel injection system is not getting enough petrol into the engine. Some threads say vapour lock, but they tend to be Australia, not a subtropical, high-pressure day in New Zealand winter. Others point to the fuel filter and the fuel pump. Checking with the previous owner, she says it only happened once. She had not used the car in months, took it to her mechanic to do the Warrant of Fitness and it would not start. Then 10 minutes later it started fine. No diagnosis, instead she sold me the car (at a price that factored in these issues).

Other suggestions are the crank sensor or cam sensor. Video talk about cam sensor suggests the engine will not run as smoothly. In this case, the engine runs fine as soon as it starts.

I returned home, shut it down for an hour or two, then went out to check OBD codes. By now it is night (cooler) and it started right up. The only two codes are related to air conditioning and infotainment, nothing that would suggest fuel or ignition.

My sense is fuel is not getting to the engine. Something causes starvation after warm run and shut down. It is unclear if trying to start for a few minutes has anything to do with it.

Any thoughts?

Yes - as per your other post and the advice given, check your camshaft sensors first, before disappearing down bigger rabbit holes! A faulty cam sensor can cause starting issues, especially when the engine is warm.

 

[2008Freelander]

Looks like I'm about to learn how to test a sensor

 

[2008Freelander]

Yes - as per your other post and the advice given, check your camshaft sensors first, before disappearing down bigger rabbit holes! A faulty cam sensor can cause starting issues, especially when the engine is warm.

After reading forums and watching YouTubes, I first removed the Camshaft Sensors and ran voltage tests. Before reporting them, I have some questions because I got some odd results, but think it may be me, not the testing. This is a learning curve for me. The G-Wagon (W460) is analogue and the Honda CR-V just works.

> Are the sensors supposed to be this dirty? I l cleaned them with MAF cleaner.

The wiring diagram suggests the ground is on the end of the plug. On mine, the violet wire is in the middle.

> Am I doing something wrong, or is it the diagram?

One YouTube video says I am supposed to get 4-5V on the VREF and 12V on the OUT.

> Is this correct? If not what readings should I get, and which reading is supposed to go to zero when I wave a steel rod by it?

I'm going to have to run the tests again, because I got odd readings like 337 mV (0.3V)

I connected the multi-meter to the negative terminal of the battery.

> OK?

I've learned a new word - heat soak, that is a condition where the engine warms up, is turned off for 10 minutes and it impacts sensors. It sounds like that is what I am experiencing.

>Does that mean I should first do the tests cold to see if the sensor drops from 5 to 0 when I wave the steel, and then do it again after heat soak?

I am presuming I should be running tests before throwing money at replacement parts.

>Yes?

 

[Freddie17]

No, a cam censor should not look like that!

IIRC, and assuming the petrol is the same principle, back-probing the wires you should find a 12v supply, a signal and a ground. The signal should give around 5v. Your ‘odd’ readings are indicative of a duff sensor. Yours has 2 I believe - have you tried the other? What happens to the volts if you switch them?

I think I’d be replacing the cam sensor(s).

 

[marjon]

After reading forums and watching YouTubes, I first removed the Camshaft Sensors and ran voltage tests. Before reporting them, I have some questions because I got some odd results, but think it may be me, not the testing. This is a learning curve for me. The G-Wagon (W460) is analogue and the Honda CR-V just works.

> Are the sensors supposed to be this dirty? I l cleaned them with MAF cleaner.

View attachment 346205


View attachment 346206


The wiring diagram suggests the ground is on the end of the plug. On mine, the violet wire is in the middle.

> Am I doing something wrong, or is it the diagram?

View attachment 346209

One YouTube video says I am supposed to get 4-5V on the VREF and 12V on the OUT.

> Is this correct? If not what readings should I get, and which reading is supposed to go to zero when I wave a steel rod by it?

I'm going to have to run the tests again, because I got odd readings like 337 mV (0.3V)

I connected the multi-meter to the negative terminal of the battery.

> OK?

I've learned a new word - heat soak, that is a condition where the engine warms up, is turned off for 10 minutes and it impacts sensors. It sounds like that is what I am experiencing.

>Does that mean I should first do the tests cold to see if the sensor drops from 5 to 0 when I wave the steel, and then do it again after heat soak?

I am presuming I should be running tests before throwing money at replacement parts.

>Yes?

View attachment 346210

I was always told if you have a 5v sensor the "ref" is 5v and then the signal that comes out is between 0.x and 4.x volts.
3 wires hall effect the readings will move around depending on revs. How you can get 12v out is a mystery to me .


Now on to your question about the position of you violet wire. Look at your wiring diagram it has those little numbers and although it looks like its on the top it has the plug cavity number 2, so I would say probably correct.

It doesnt need to be clean on the bits you show. the readings are taken from the face of the sensor, maybe somebody was over zelous with the grease when it was put in, It only needs a little lube around the O ring.


Oh I have no idea about FLs.

J

 

[Nodge68]

That engine has had skipped oil changes. It's full of sludge.

 

[2008Freelander]

Today I removed/replaced fuel rail sensor and got a new error code P0183-00. Fuel temperature sensor A circuit input high. Once it generated a check engine light, but not each time. The fault code comes almost immediately on driving.

Odds are the new sensor is bad. But I would like to actually understand what the OBD numbers actually mean.

When I ran the detail report (attached as a PDF), I get 4 pages of readings, but do not know what is normal and what points to the problem.

The original problem is a hot soak issue. Start cold, drive 10km, park 10min, won't start. Eventually it does start. I replaced the MAF, but no change. Next is the fuel sensor, but I got this error. After I sort this, if it still has the hot soak, I'll try cam sensors and then crank sensors.

But I really would appreciate assistance on in what the attached Autel report means... specifically, what reported numbers are within range, and what is out. I have gone through the 3000+ page LR FL2 service manual, but cannot find a page that gives the expected numbers. I've been repairing cars for decades, but am only now encountering digital cars. I expect all these sensors can make a big difference in diagnosis, but only if I can find what the correct readings are supposed to be.

When this is done, I will write it up for others.

UPDATE: I removed the new sensor, reinstalled the old one. No fault code. I then replaced the cam sensors with new, took it on the same run that has resulted in heat soak and it appears to have solved the problem

 

[2008Freelander]

check your camshaft sensors first, before disappearing down bigger rabbit holes! A faulty cam sensor can cause starting issues, especially when the engine is warm.

SOLVED! You were right. I replaced both cam sensors, repeated the same drive where it failed each time before and it fired right up. No fault codes. Thanks!

 

[Freddie17]

SOLVED! You were right. I replaced both cam sensors, repeated the same drive where it failed each time before and it fired right up. No fault codes. Thanks!

Well done. Thanks for updating the forum - the ‘solves’ help others.