Hi All. I posted a while ago in the Defender section, looking for some guidance on which to go for (coming back to Landys after having a IIa 20-odd years ago). The one thing that stood out was that Defenders are rather expensive at the moment. I've been looking at lots of ads and eBay auctions since then, and it seems that the other Land Rover models go for quite a bit less, given similar age/condition/miles. For example, 4K for a Defender, or 2K or so for the others.

Quite a big difference, and worth considering for me, since I'm not looking for an out-and-out off-roader. To summarise my expected use: winter driving for when my MR2 can't hack the slippy stuff, getting out and about to do landscape photography, maybe the odd weekend away camping. I'd expect most driving to be on farm track type stuff, maybe some light off road (mainly to get off the farm tracks so I don't block access for others), and some mild wading/fording. Having said that, I still feel that I'd like some off-road ability that goes beyond my likely use - nice to have a bit in reserve.

I assume all of the Land Rover models can handle this sort of use, which leaves me in a state of not really knowing what to go for. I'd like the fuel consumption to be reasonable - 30mpg is fine, 20mpg is not fine. I think that means a diesel engine. My thoughts on the non-Defender models folllow - comments and guidance appreciated.

Freelander. Been looking at these for a while, and it seems that the cheaper ones are the 1.8 petrol, and they're a bit thirsty compared to the TD4. These seem to be more a 4WD car with decent ground clearance. They look pretty, but I have misgivings about the lack of a transfer box (and the feeling that I'd be putting too much trust in a bunch of fancy electronics), and I'm not too sure about the mechanicals - seems that the 4WD splitter-gubbins is prone to failure if not looked after. What are they like for reliability, and is the off-road ability limited?

Discovery. Seems to be plenty around for about 2K or so, but I often wonder if the older/cheaper ones are likely to have trouble with rust. Visually, I don't find them appealing - it's like a cross between a Defender and a Range Rover and doesn't really work. However, a clean non-rusty and reliable one is not beyond considering. Is the rust really a problem? How are they for reliability?

Range Rover. Hadn't considered these at first because I had always perceived them as expensive to buy and run. However, there are a fair few older ones with diesel engines, and something like this might suit. I don't know much about them, other than the lower tailgates rust. Are there any other bits that rust? Which engines are worth considering? Any reliability issues?


Cheers.

Forget the petrol Freelanders completely.

Diesels are better but transmission failures are common and expensive to rectify.

Discoveries are good but earlier models will suffer rust but you should get a mint td5 for £2k.

rangies are comfy but fraught with electrical and suspension problems. over all I'd say go disco for cost, comfort and ease of repairs/reliability

redhand, what about a rangey classic? no electric issues, no suspension issues if you get one with coils, and you can get an absolutely mint one for 2k

that would be my choice. like you i dont really like discos, at least not standard ones

The reason defenders are dearer is precisely because they are cheaper to keep in a usable condition ,extend life in financialy viable way , less steel so less rust probs, (disco more steel more rust) , simpler construction (range rover more bells and whistles , electronics to fail) Freelander , not so capable , but in reality most people dont need the extra capability anyway.
From what you list discovery would be most suitable, as it is with most people. JMHO ,

Isn't a classic Rangey getting a bit long in the tooth, such that major mechanicals might need work/replacment?

Regarding Discos, there's a 1997 300TDi manual near me for 2K, several months MOT, 100K miles. Looks clean in the photos. Is that worth a look?

Regarding Defenders, opinion in my thread in the Defender section was that they're going for silly money just now - overpriced. So, my thinking is to get something else and either use it until Defender prices drop, or maybe keep it for a year or two while I save up for a better Defender.

Defender...for men who can afford them.

Discovery..for men who like defenders but who buy a top condition discovery rather than a bottom condition defender.

Freelander...for men who like other mens bottoms, go to discos and use conditioner.

Range Rover... no idea what they want apart from AA emergency cover.

couldnt have put it better myself

redhand said:

Discoveries are good but earlier models will suffer rust but you should get a mint td5 for £2k.

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Could you? Where from?

From what you said, you probably don't need a Defender. Excellent off-road, not so great on road. Some may argue with this, but that's what it's intended to be! The Discovery or the Freelander TD4 will do the job. Both have potential issues which you would need to keep an eye on though.

If you decide that the Freelander class meets your needs, you may want to take a look at the Nissan X-Trail as well. It is more reliable than the Freelander and not too expensive. I'm not sure if it's equally capable off road though. That said, I've only come across positive reviews about it. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the Freelander. (Though, the diesel engines are more reliable)

redhand said:

Discoveries are good but earlier models will suffer rust but you should get a mint td5 for £2k.

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Are you sure? I couldn't find many decent TD5's (without excessive mileage) for much less than £4k.

RichM said:

the Nissan X-Trail as well. It is more reliable than the Freelander and not too expensive. I'm not sure if it's equally capable off road though. That said, I've only come across positive reviews about it. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the Freelander. (Though, the diesel engines are more reliable)

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Perfectly capable - both Hippos and my X-Trail were fine across Salisbury on the SLUTS newbie run, although low ground clearance can be an issue. Off road bits are available, but need to be imported from around the world. With GG AT2's - perfectly competant for the occasional sortie.

Dont buy an early doozil tho - thats the bad one - but it does have a bigger boot.

RichM said:

From what you said, you probably don't need a Defender. Excellent off-road, not so great on road. Some may argue with this, but that's what it's intended to be! The Discovery or the Freelander TD4 will do the job. Both have potential issues which you would need to keep an eye on though.

If you decide that the Freelander class meets your needs, you may want to take a look at the Nissan X-Trail as well. It is more reliable than the Freelander and not too expensive. I'm not sure if it's equally capable off road though. That said, I've only come across positive reviews about it. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the Freelander. (Though, the diesel engines are more reliable)



Are you sure? I couldn't find many decent TD5's (without excessive mileage) for much less than £4k.

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Ya looking in the wrong place, stay away from dealers forecourts.

carpy said:

redhand, what about a rangey classic? no electric issues, no suspension issues if you get one with coils, and you can get an absolutely mint one for 2k

that would be my choice. like you i dont really like discos, at least not standard ones

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I got the impression he was looking for something a bit newer with £2k to spend.

redhand said:

Ya looking in the wrong place, stay away from dealers forecourts.

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I've looked everywhere for ages, cant find one for less than 4k either! Where are these magical places redhand?

xeon said:

I've looked everywhere for ages, cant find one for less than 4k either! Where are these magical places redhand?

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Try Ebay & Pistonheads forum. or autotrader but avoid he trade ads. there's a nice 2001 td5 disco auto on ebay £2k with 13hrs to go. stick a few on ya watch list. and see what they fetch.

xeon said:

I've looked everywhere for ages, cant find one for less than 4k either! Where are these magical places redhand?

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I only paid £3.5k for my 110 TD5 csw on ebay.

ratty said:

I only paid £3.5k for my 110 TD5 csw on ebay.

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bargain! middle of the night or something was it?

redhand said:

but you should get a mint td5 for £2k.

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Ill have 2 please

Had a look at the Disco I mentioned above. I can't say I was impressed. Both bumpers need some work - the front has been clipped by something, and a bracket is bent, and the rear is bent upwards at one end (and also has what looks like some fairly heavy surface rust). The rear door still opens, though. There are also some minor rust spots on the body. There are three along the rear edge of the loading bay, just inboard of the bumper (one has rusted through to a half inch hole). There is another small hole near the bottom when you open the nearside passenger door (at the bottom of the leading edge of the wheel arch). There were a couple of plates that had been welded onto the trailing surface of the front wheel arches (both sides, welded from inside the engine bay). Lifted the rear carpet and had a look at the loading bay - most of it seemed good, but at each edge near the wheel arch, it looked a bit rough (not rusty, and not bubbling paint). Some tapping with a blunt metal object indicated a slight dulling of the sound compared to the surrounding metal. From what I could see, the chassis looks okay - some surface rust here and there, and some flakey paint, but all looks structurally fine.

Didn't get a chance to drive it (not insured), but looked at wheels while moving steering back and forth - no hint of play. Low range works, the diff lock light comes on, and the brakes stopped it over the foot or so I covered to check low and high range. The one mechanical misgiving I had was that the transfer box control was very, very stiff. Diff lock was easier to operate, but was maybe still a tad stiff (but I have no reference point). Transfer box stuff was done with engine running and clutch pedal down.

Engine sounded fine, and started right away from cold. Interior bits and bobs look decent. Doors all open and close okay, electric windows all work. Both headlamps had condensation in them. Didn't try any lights, and didn't think to rev the motor to check for smoke. Seller says clutch and cam belt have been done recently (last few thousand miles), and rear body mounts have been renewed. Has 5 Disco alloys and 4 very good General Grabbers. Was asking 2K, but willing to take 400 quid off, and happy to arrange short term insurance to sort out a test drive. It has decent tax and MOT (several months for both).

My overall impression was that the mechanicals are better than the body (test drive notwithstanding). Mileage isn't too bad at 100K, but part of me says there's too much rust - I have a fear that I'll spend money getting it cleaned up, only to find new rust next year. I also find myself wondering if I could get a Defender in similar condition for not much more.

Is it worth 1600 quid, or should I keep looking? If I spend the 400 quid price drop on repairs (and assuming the transfer box stiffness is okay), will it be worth 2K at the end of it?

xeon said:

bargain! middle of the night or something was it?

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No. It actually ended in the middle of the afternoon on a saturday. I couldn't believe it when i won it.

It did have it's problems as I soon found out.

Still a bargain though.