Brookstain

Member
Hi all,

I finally got round to fitting some 2" lift shocks, and have purchased some rather meaty 235/85/R16 tyres.

They've come off a Range Rover and are currently on a set of steel wheels. The seller thinks they will rub quite a lot.

My question is... what offset wheels would be best with such tall tyres? What setup do people run on such tyres with a 2" lift?

Many thanks, Jack.
 
I, and others, run 235/85R16s on standard suspension with no lift at all and no issues with rubbing. So long as the wheels you have are std offset you'll have no problems.
 
Hi all,

I finally got round to fitting some 2" lift shocks, and have purchased some rather meaty 235/85/R16 tyres.

They've come off a Range Rover and are currently on a set of steel wheels. The seller thinks they will rub quite a lot.

My question is... what offset wheels would be best with such tall tyres? What setup do people run on such tyres with a 2" lift?

Many thanks, Jack.
It really is quite saddening to see such things like this posted... again and again and again on Land Rover forums...

1. There is NO such thing as 2" lift shocks FFS!!!!! Do you people do **** all research when you go and buy crap??? Just so you have no ****ing clue what it does or why you fitted it?? :rolleyes:

2. Wheel offset generally has nothing to do with overall tyre height.


Do you even know what wheel offset means?



As to your question, it depends entirely on what you are wanting to achieve. Wheel offset is about where the centre line of the rim is located in relation to the hub flange plate.

Different width wheels will need a different offset to be located in the same place. But you may want to move a rim in or out bound depending on what you are wanting to achieve.

A wider track will allow more steering and less rubbing on the radius arms. And to a point will help prevent rubbing the inner arches and body.

A wider track will also run the risk of sticking the wheels outside the body, which is illegal (see Construction & Use regs, not the MoT.... for details). Wheels sticking out further will throw more mud and dirt up the side of the vehicle, and may cause more rubbing on the outer bodywork. As well as have an effect on steering and bearing loads.

Different width rims will seat the tyre differently and alter how the sidewall sits.

As a rule steel wheels are stronger, more durable and less prone to damage than alloys off road.
 
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I, and others, run 235/85R16s on standard suspension with no lift at all and no issues with rubbing. So long as the wheels you have are std offset you'll have no problems.
On a Discovery?

Certainly not true of a D1, and I would be surprised if you could fit a 32" tall tyre on a D2 without rubbing. If it's a Chelsea Tractor or 'Mall Crawler'... then maybe, but not if you plan to off road it.
 
Thanks MrIFan, hopefully now that she's raised up I will have enough clearance on the arch to run the slightly higher profile.

As for your rather kind reply 300bhp/ton... yes I know what offset is, and besides lift block/spacers, how else do you lift a Disco? The shocks I have fitted are definitely higher...? I didn't bother doing research as I bought the shocks and tyres off a friend who removed them from his Range Rover. You're answer hasn't helped at all... I was merely wondering what offset I would need for that size tyre, so that it doesn't poke out and rub the arch, and so that it doesn't rub the radius arms.
 
Hi all,

I finally got round to fitting some 2" lift shocks, and have purchased some rather meaty 235/85/R16 tyres.

They've come off a Range Rover and are currently on a set of steel wheels. The seller thinks they will rub quite a lot.

My question is... what offset wheels would be best with such tall tyres? What setup do people run on such tyres with a 2" lift?

Many thanks, Jack.

Why?

As you are obviously a novice, why not stay with standard until you get used to it ? After a while you will probably find it is more than suited to your needs.
 
Thanks MrIFan, hopefully now that she's raised up I will have enough clearance on the arch to run the slightly higher profile.

As for your rather kind reply 300bhp/ton... yes I know what offset is, and besides lift block/spacers, how else do you lift a Disco? The shocks I have fitted are definitely higher...? I didn't bother doing research as I bought the shocks and tyres off a friend who removed them from his Range Rover. You're answer hasn't helped at all... I was merely wondering what offset I would need for that size tyre, so that it doesn't poke out and rub the arch, and so that it doesn't rub the radius arms.

Shock absorbers don't raise a vehicle. Springs do. But as above, why bother?
 
Thanks MrIFan, hopefully now that she's raised up I will have enough clearance on the arch to run the slightly higher profile.

As for your rather kind reply 300bhp/ton... yes I know what offset is, and besides lift block/spacers, how else do you lift a Disco? The shocks I have fitted are definitely higher...? I didn't bother doing research as I bought the shocks and tyres off a friend who removed them from his Range Rover. You're answer hasn't helped at all... I was merely wondering what offset I would need for that size tyre, so that it doesn't poke out and rub the arch, and so that it doesn't rub the radius arms.
I think you are getting yourself confused a little tbh.

You might have raised the static standing height of the vehicle, i.e. when it's sitting on level ground.

But what do you think happens off road when the suspension gets compressed?

If the tyres would have hit the body without a 2" lift, then as soon as the suspension is compressed by 2", they will, surprise surprise hit the body.


As for your question on how to lift....

There is a link in my sig that you might find help ;)

But in brief.... there are many ways. And lots of reasons. Lifting to fit taller tyres however is probably a poor reason. Unless the tyres are extreme.

However, never in a million years will shocks give you a 2" lift. They just don't work in that way.


And as for the rim, it depends what you are wanting to do with the vehicle and your intended use. However to get good steering lock, you will have some rubbing somewhere and will likely need to trim the body.

BTW, for reference, are we talking D1 (3 or 5 door) or D2?
 
I am raising it as I own a cottage in the middle of nowhere in Exmoor, and with he current setup, it's a tad lower than I'd like at a few points. Grip is my main issue on the tyres I am running, and to run the meaty tyres I have bought - I simply wouldn't have enough room on the standard setup. One of the rear shocks needed replacing anyway, and for £250 for the new shocks, springs, tyres and wheels I really couldn't go wrong.

Visually it is quite obvious that these springs are a fair bit bigger than the standard springs - so I am struggling to understand your point in how this won't raise the truck?

Surely if I am 2" higher, then I will have 2" more to compress when off-road than if I was on a 2" lower setup? I know it may not be a true 2" lift, but it sure as hell looks higher.

Its a 300tdi '95 5 door.
 
I'm no expert on lifting the Disco, but from everything I've read, there's only one way if the vehicle is already on steel springs and that's to fit higher springs instead. If it's a D2 and on windy-springs then lift blocks will have to be used.
Installing a 2" lift will cause the shockers to work "off centre", resulting in 2 inches more being available in the compression and 2 inches less in the extension modes. This is the reason why the 2" lift shock absorbers should be used, but they're about as much use as a chocolate fireguard unless the springs have been lifted first.
I've asked numerous times in the past, "Why buy a perfectly capable vehicle and then go and screw up the handling by fitting a big lift and big knobbly tyres which will also screw up the turning circle too"? Just 'cos you think that it looks "manly". So far nobody has been able to give me a satisfactory answer.
Raising the body doesn't increase the ground clearance that much either, just the approach and exit angles. Ground clearance is largely a factor of wheel diameter.
 
All points noted, and understood as they were before I raised it.

The tail of my vehicle hits quite a bit, and the diffs are rather low when plodding through some very deep ruts I have to drive when visiting my cottage. Therefore I wanted to raise the body, and the tyre size, to give a little more clearance at the rear and on the diffs.

It sounds like you're all saying its a bad idea. What I shall do is wait a couple of weeks and come back with an honest update.

If it's crap i'll admit it's crap. I'm fairly sure that if anything is to worsen my Landy, it'll be the tyres.

Thanks for the input from everyone so far - I'll leave my noob questions off of the forum now.
 
On a Discovery?

Certainly not true of a D1, and I would be surprised if you could fit a 32" tall tyre on a D2 without rubbing. If it's a Chelsea Tractor or 'Mall Crawler'... then maybe, but not if you plan to off road it.

You must get surprised an awful lot then! You're telling other people to do their research and then you chelp off without even a rudimentary search of my previous posts!
Had you taken a second to check you would have seen that my "Chelsea tractor" D2 regularly leads green lane days in the Peak District, and happily runs 235/85/16 BFG ATs (which start life as 33" not 32") without any rubbing issues on standard suspension.

To be fair I should have mentioned I was talking about a D2 but I'd just been browsing D2BC.co.uk and brain was still in D2 mode. 235/85/16 probably will rub on a D1 without a camel cut.
 
You must get surprised an awful lot then! You're telling other people to do their research and then you chelp off without even a rudimentary search of my previous posts!
Had you taken a second to check you would have seen that my "Chelsea tractor" D2 regularly leads green lane days in the Peak District, and happily runs 235/85/16 BFG ATs (which start life as 33" not 32") without any rubbing issues on standard suspension.

To be fair I should have mentioned I was talking about a D2 but I'd just been browsing D2BC.co.uk and brain was still in D2 mode. 235/85/16 probably will rub on a D1 without a camel cut.
Yes I do get surprised a lot.

But I'm not now, or ever going to waste my time searching for another users posts, just to see what vehicle they might have been abstractly referencing. Neither your sig or your avatar give any clue to what vehicle you may own.

I am surprised that you can really fit 235/85R16's on a stock D2 and use it off road with no rubbing. A 235/75R16 however I can believe.

On a D1 I do know that they will not fit, they will rub the front bumper end caps and crumple the rear of the rear arch. Nor will they simply fit straight on most classic Range Rovers.

And sorry to point this out, but a 235/85R16 is no where near 33" tall. If you do the maths they are to the numbers 31.73" tall. But most 'new' tread tyres will actually fall short of this by maybe an inch. Some remoulds get close to 32" however, but never over it.
 
Best advise I could give you, as we live off the metaled road, is to fill the ruts in :)
I may have to do this Disco1BFG..! It's quite a long track that's quite far from the nearest concrete road - but it may be worthwhile.

For now however, I may just continue to prepare my Disco for as much as possible. After all, is that not what it's all about?
 
+1
I've just checked the figures by @300bhp/ton and mine came out as 31.72835 inches diameter. I concur that there's no way that could be even misread as 33 inches not even if they're grossly over-inflated.
 
I may have to do this Disco1BFG..! It's quite a long track that's quite far from the nearest concrete road - but it may be worthwhile.

For now however, I may just continue to prepare my Disco for as much as possible. After all, is that not what it's all about?
You ain't goin' to get too many visitors to your cottage unless you do fill in the ruts a bit! Not even the postie is going to get to you in his van. :D
 
I am raising it as I own a cottage in the middle of nowhere in Exmoor, and with he current setup, it's a tad lower than I'd like at a few points. Grip is my main issue on the tyres I am running, and to run the meaty tyres I have bought - I simply wouldn't have enough room on the standard setup. One of the rear shocks needed replacing anyway, and for £250 for the new shocks, springs, tyres and wheels I really couldn't go wrong.

Visually it is quite obvious that these springs are a fair bit bigger than the standard springs - so I am struggling to understand your point in how this won't raise the truck?

Surely if I am 2" higher, then I will have 2" more to compress when off-road than if I was on a 2" lower setup? I know it may not be a true 2" lift, but it sure as hell looks higher.

Its a 300tdi '95 5 door.

Ok, so here goes... :)

A spring is not a shock and a shock is not a spring ;)

A spring may well lift a vehicle, but a shock never will. I assumed you probably fitted lift springs as well, although you hadn't mentioned this.

As for off road.

1. I'd actually be surprised if a stock Disco isn't more than fine for the use you are describing. But that's by the by.

2. A stock Disco actually uses the same length springs, shocks and axle movement as a stock Defender does. This means it rides pretty heigh in standard trim. Higher than almost all other production 4x4's....

3. The things that make this appear less on a Disco are:
a) The long front and rear over hangs
b) A bigger body with smaller wheel arches (meaning less gap between the tyre and the arch)
c) Stock Disco's normally run 28-29" tall tyres. So from the hub to the ground is generally less than on a Defender, which will normally run 31-32" tyres.

3. A 235/85R16 is a standard fitment tyre for a Defender. This means if you fit them to a Disco you'll get the same sort of ground clearance as a stock Defender. Which frankly, unless you are doing extreme off roads events, is more than sufficient for almost any other off road use. You still have the longer overhangs to deal with however.

The stumbling block is, the body is usually in the way to fit the bigger tyres.

4. So the answer is to move the body out of the way a bit. There are lots of ways of doing this.

a) My preferred route, trim the arches. This means it keeps everything else stock and retains all the good design parts with no compromises.

b) A body lift. This is where you lift the body up from the frame. Often a cheap way to lift a vehicle, but can be a PITA to fit. And sometimes looks a little odd.

c) A suspension lift. Which will lift the entire vehicle up. This is the most common choice and probably the most compromised.

5. Most suspension lifts are done by fitting a HD (heavy duty) spring. At rest they don't compress as much and give you the lift. The trouble is, a stiff spring will ride like crap on the road. And off road will be less compliant and will want to resist flex and articulation.

6. Many HD springs are also short, so they don't extend well, so off road fall out of the upper spring seat. Meaning you need to solve this new issue. And are often lead to the belief that you are getting more travel.

7. Longer shocks can give you more down travel, but you really need a suitable spring to make the most of this. And stock upper mounts can actually reduce travel. Also with HD springs what you may find is, the vehicle will want to lift a wheel more readily.

8. Ultimately this means the majority of lifted Disco's actually perform worse off AND on road than a standard vehicle. Which is really quite an achievement.

9. A suspension lift will also change the pinion angles of the props and may cause binding.

10. A suspension lift also changes the caster angle of the front hubs, which can make the steering wooly and will highlight and exaggerate knackered steering components.


Now I'm not saying don't do this. But it is well understanding the changes you are making, what effect they will have and if they are actually going to meet your needs or not.

My personal preference is to keep a vehicle riding as low as possible. This keep the CoG low and the vehicle more stable. Then trim the body to get the tyres to fit. As for suspension, you want it compliant for the task at hand and want to retain up travel as well as down travel.

As for rims. A 235 will fit on a 6.5 - 8J rim comfortably. Depending on the exact tyre and how you want them to sit on the rims. Off road it is often good to go for a narrower rim to get a square or bulging side wall, as this will offer the rim additional protection. A wide rim might give a somewhat 'stretched' look.

As for offset, it will depend on the rim in question. A 6.5 and an 8j rim with the same offset will result in the inner and outer edges of the rim being in different places.

Steering lock is limited by the tyre hitting the radius arm, rim that moves the tyre more out bound will help here. But you quickly will find the tyres will stick out of the arches.

A 235/85R16 will foul the front bumper end caps and maybe even the front bumper. So you'll need to solve this in one way or another. It might clear better with the lift, but off road under compression you may find yourself with issues.

At the rear you'll need to trim the rear of the rear arch. This is known as the Camel Cut.... because it will hit the tyre under compression. Wider and bigger offset rims more so.

To this end, you may even want to run different offset rims front to rear.
 
You ain't goin' to get too many visitors to your cottage unless you do fill in the ruts a bit! Not even the postie is going to get to you in his van. :D
That is very true! The cottage has been in our family for 60+ years, and it doesn't have electricity or running water let alone a need for the postie to make it down in a van!

It's propa' out in the country you see.
 
After all, is that not what it's all about?

Not in my opinion. Sorry, but, the standard vehicle is the best compromise. If you alter it, you will loose out. And....., by the time you've spent, (wasted IMHO), all that money, you could have filled in the ruts quite a few times. And don't forget than any non standard stuff must be notified to your insurance company too.... which can be a real ball ache...
 

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