I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half of the
gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25 degree up
slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.

5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow. I got to
the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did better
going back on it's own tire tracks.

How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.

Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will not be trying
my wife's Grand Caravan 4wd.

Carry tire chains ... the weather might be great going in, but if it starts
to snow heavy while yer there ...

As another poster said, weight is key as well as tires. I have a
Tacoma...with my snowmobile in the back, its solid in slipperly conditions
and makes for good weight to get through snow. Although not necessary for
deep snow. Tires I find are key for deep snow...narrow tires that cut
through it and easier for the engine to turn. I find wide tires make me slip
all over the place and strains my truck trying to get though it.

As for a big V8 and wide tires, can't speak to that.

"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FTrHe.2844$cg.1763@news02.roc.ny...
> I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half of the
> gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25 degree up
> slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>
> 5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow. I got to
> the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did better
> going back on it's own tire tracks.
>
> How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
> snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>
> Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will not be
trying
> my wife's Grand Caravan 4wd.
>
>

There are so many variables that no one could give you an authorative
answer. Tires, differentials (locking, limited slip, open?), chains,
driving skills, clearance all add up.

The only vehicle that is stated as being able to do what you want is
an Hummer H1 (NOT AN H2!) but there are bound to be many that can also
chug it up.

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:14:29 GMT, "toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half of the
>gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25 degree up
>slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>
>5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow. I got to
>the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did better
>going back on it's own tire tracks.
>
>How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
>snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>
>Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will not be trying
>my wife's Grand Caravan 4wd.
>

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:00:54 -0400, Peter D. Hipson
<phipson@deletethisword.darkstar.mv.com> wrote:

>There are so many variables that no one could give you an authorative
>answer. Tires, differentials (locking, limited slip, open?), chains,
>driving skills, clearance all add up.


This is the best answer I've read. I've taken my F-250 in over a foot
of snow without problems on some occassions and then struggled with
4-6 inches at other times. Lots of variables!

That being said, a typically equipped F-250 will do better in the snow
than a typically equipped RAV 4.

Matt
99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

My buddy's Rav4 had it's transfer case replaced this past
winter after the gears got stripped from driving in the
snow/ice. Interesting how the tranny held up better than
the TC.

"Matt Mead" <mdmead@DELETETHIScharter.net> wrote in message
news:i14ve191ioj2o6djo98t5m5as9m31u53n1@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:00:54 -0400, Peter D. Hipson
> <phipson@deletethisword.darkstar.mv.com> wrote:
>
> >There are so many variables that no one could give you an
authorative
> >answer. Tires, differentials (locking, limited slip,
open?), chains,
> >driving skills, clearance all add up.
>
>
> This is the best answer I've read. I've taken my F-250 in
over a foot
> of snow without problems on some occassions and then
struggled with
> 4-6 inches at other times. Lots of variables!
>
> That being said, a typically equipped F-250 will do better
in the snow
> than a typically equipped RAV 4.
>
> Matt
> 99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

"toller" wrote:
>I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half of
>the
>gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25
>degree up
>slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>
>5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow. I
got
>to
>the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did
>better
>going back on it’s own tire tracks.
>
>How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
>snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>
>Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will not be
>trying
>my wife’s Grand Caravan 4wd.

There is no set rule here on snow depth because it depends alot on the
nature of the snow. If it is a light powdery snow, you should be able
to get through 2 to 3 feet of it but if it is the heavy wet stuff in
can suck down even a big truckwhen it packs under the axles nad the
bigger you are the harder you are to get unstuck. Also the grades you
have is some cause for concern in snow and icy with a heavy truck too
once you loose traction and start to slide. Personally I would
reocmmand something in the middle. The RAV4 is not really a trail
blazing vehical and the truck is not a perfect solution either. I
would suggest a vehical maybe a little bigger than the RAV4 with more
tire and undercarrage clearance and enough wheel well clearance to be
able to use tire chains if it get ugly or you get trapped because
chains can take you places that no tire can dream of in ice and snow.
In a used vehical, a 2001 and early Cherokee (now discontinued) would
be a pretty good choice for this with good clearance and proven
offraod performance and yet not too terrible to extract/dig out if you
get stuck. Last winter after a 16+ plus snowfall I was running my
plow truck on a simular lane to clear it and even though I had 4
studded snow tires and a good bit of ballast, I lost traction on a
incline and slide in slow motion into a slight ditch. Between the
condition of snow and ice and grade I could not get out and another
4x4 could not budge me. (I should have put my chains on first but I
though I did not have them with me either but I found out later that I
did have them with me) I flagged down a back hoe and he was able to
pull be out on the ice and snow covered lane with a long chain that
kept him in a flat area.

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"Brad P" wrote:
>As another poster said, weight is key as well as tires. I have a
>Tacoma...with my snowmobile in the back, its solid in slipperly
>conditions
>and makes for good weight to get through snow. Although not necessary
>for
>deep snow. Tires I find are key for deep snow...narrow tires that cut
>through it and easier for the engine to turn. I find wide tires make
>me slip
>all over the place and strains my truck trying to get though it.
>
>As for a big V8 and wide tires, can’t speak to that.
>
>"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:FTrHe.2844$cg.1763@news02.roc.ny...
>> I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half
>of the
>> gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25
>degree up
>> slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>>
>> 5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow.
>I got to
>> the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did
>better
>> going back on it’s own tire tracks.
>>
>> How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
>> snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>>
>> Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will
>not be
>trying
>> my wife’s Grand Caravan 4wd.
>>
>>

One more note, if you try to plow your way in and out, do not try it
without tire chains with grades and I would not do it either on a long
lane like that without a Vee Plow if you are new to this because with
a striaght plow when you have it angled, it can push you off the road
if you suddenly hit some deep heavy snow. You also want a trip edge
plow (all Fisher plows are and Fisher, Western and Meyer diamond vee
plows are too) because a trip edge plow is etremely well behaved on a
rough gravel lane and with the Boss Vee plows being the worst plow
there is for use on surfaces that are irregular and have edges/rocks
to catch on. (many a Boss Vee plow owner has bent and broken cutting
edges and more on impacts when Vee’ed, it can be so bad that one
aftermarket company makes polyurethane replacement cutting edges than
give on impact)

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"Peter D. Hipson" wrote:
>There are so many variables that no one could give you an authorative
>answer. Tires, differentials (locking, limited slip, open?), chains,
>driving skills, clearance all add up.
>
>The only vehicle that is stated as being able to do what you want is
>an Hummer H1 (NOT AN H2!) but there are bound to be many that can
also
>chug it up.
>
>

I would not be so bold, the Hummer was not designed with snow in mind
and all that extra weight is not a asset climbing grades in snow.
Neither is its high CG. It would get smoked by lighter vehicals with
good tires.

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"Matt Mead" wrote:
>
>
>That being said, a typically equipped F-250 will do better in the
snow
>than a typically equipped RAV 4.
>
>Matt
>99 V-10 Super Duty, Super Cab 4x4

Not on ice and pickups as rear end light with can make matter worse
going up and down slick hills. I have a 4x4 89 burb that is such a
tank in snow I rarely use 4wd in it in snow.

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On 4 Aug 2005 20:38:38 -0400, SnoMan <UseLinkToEmail@AutoForumz.com>
wrote:

>
>I would not be so bold, the Hummer was not designed with snow in mind
>and all that extra weight is not a asset climbing grades in snow.
>Neither is its high CG. It would get smoked by lighter vehicals with
>good tires.

You can be bold... However, having had both for many years, I can tell
you that the Hummer is excellent in snow. CG doesn't affect snow
performance, but ground clearance does (Once your undercarriage starts
to plow snow, its all over for you. The Hummer's almost smooth, 17"
clearance pushes virtually no snow at all.

"Peter D. Hipson" wrote:
>On 4 Aug 2005 20:38:38 -0400, SnoMan
><UseLinkToEmail@AutoForumz.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>I would not be so bold, the Hummer was not designed with snow in
>mind
>>and all that extra weight is not a asset climbing grades in snow.
>>Neither is its high CG. It would get smoked by lighter vehicals
>with
>>good tires.
>
>You can be bold... However, having had both for many years, I can
tell
>you that the Hummer is excellent in snow. CG doesn’t affect snow
>performance, but ground clearance does (Once your undercarriage
starts
>to plow snow, its all over for you. The Hummer’s almost smooth,
>17"
>clearance pushes virtually no snow at all.

What works on the flat and level and what works on icy snow covered
hills and grades is a different matter. I have pushed snow for 20
years plus in a lot of different vehicals of differents sizes and
weights and with tractors and loaders too. I make it a point to
"master" snow and the different types of it. I have lived with it
too at temps of 50 below as well and in blizzards. A Hummer would not
be a good choice for his needs and would be nasty to extra when he did
get stuck and you can get stuck without even dragging your
undercarriage when the snow is right. A very heavy vehical in okay if
you are basically on the flat and level in snow but throw in a long
lane with steep grades and it is no longer the prime choice here, I
know first hand. One year I could not make a grade on a snowy lane
that I was not dragging on without chains, even though I had 4
studded nasty snow tires at 9000 lbs yet a jeep cherokee without studs
and with good tires made it with little effort. For his needs he needs
more than a RAV4 (which was never really meant for that) but less than
a Hummer or a big 4x4 pickup if he is just trying to break trail.

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"" wrote:
> I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first
> half of the
> gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has
> 25 degree up
> slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>
> 5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of
> snow. I got to
> the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it
> did better
> going back on it's own tire tracks.
>
> How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged
> for
> snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>
> Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will
> not be trying
> my wife's Grand Caravan 4wd.

it doesnt sound like hes trying to plow a new road through artic
tundra, just make it through a possible 6in-1ft of snow. Chains on an
F250 should do that w/o much problem. make sure you got some weight in
the back (atleast a few hundred over the axles). then to be safe get
yourself a pullpal and a good strong rope, pullbar, sand/kitty litter,
and a shovel. keep moving and if u get stuck dont dig yourself in,
stop spinning the tires right away and start using your supplies. but
outside of chains you only need a few $ worth of supplies to be ok
($5-20), and less than $500 to be fully equipted with anything you may
need.

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"xmirage2kx" wrote:
>it doesnt sound like hes trying to plow a new road through artic
>tundra, just make it through a possible 6in-1ft of snow. Chains on an
>F250 should do that w/o much problem. make sure you got some weight
in
>the back (atleast a few hundred over the axles). then to be safe get
>yourself a pullpal and a good strong rope, pullbar, sand/kitty
litter,
>and a shovel. keep moving and if u get stuck dont dig yourself in,
>stop spinning the tires right away and start using your supplies. but
>outside of chains you only need a few $ worth of supplies to be ok
>(-20), and less than 0 to be fully equipted with anything you may
>need.

Better off with a lighter vehical the size of a Jeep cherokee or the
like with good clearance and wheel well room for chains if it is bad.
It is a lot either to get a 3o00 to 4000 lb vehical going again in
snow that a 6000 to 9000 lb one when you get hung up.

Ive spend a lifetime driving in the Backroads of N.M. on Regular
Pickups and 4x4s and all kinds of Trucks Chevy, Dodges, Fords and the
Best Security for Getting out of Bad Places is a Long Handled Shovel I
never leave home without one its great for killing Rattlesnakes. Water,
matches,Flashlight are very important and a good Accurate Pistol my
preference is a 22 LR single Action Cowboy Style they are the most
Accurate for Shooting Rabbits or even bringing down a deer if you were
to Break down out in the Middle of Nowhere. If there are any Dry Cholla
Cactus around the small dry branches make excellent Candles at night if
you get a Flat and if you put several together you can make a Torch and
the little holes in the side give it air and keep it lit even the wind
has a Problem blowing it out. Of Course A good Sleeping Bag and plenty
of water is a must and a good knife and Dagger. A good Tool Box with
Tools and Hammer dont hurt either. I use a ski pole as a Walking Stick
and it has come in Handy for hiking and rustling the plants in front of
you to keep from getting Snake bit and to kill Snakes and even for
protection from Bad People who you might just happen to Encounter out in
the middle of nowhere. To me Traveling alone in the mountains is
Second Nature. Read my Website on here its outdated now since then i
have found the Exact area where the Heberer Lorius will be found and
some important evidence to Solving this Great Mystery. LUPE from
the Center of N.M.


http://community.webtv.net/PintadaKid/THELONGWALK
I COMPLAINED BECAUSE I HAD NO SHOES UNTIL I MET A MAN WHO HAD NO FEET.
EL PINTADA KID ..... LUPE

On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 18:40:07 -0600, PintadaKid@webtv.net (Lupe
Esquibel) wrote:

> I use a ski pole as a Walking Stick
>and it has come in Handy for hiking and rustling the plants in front of
>you to keep from getting Snake bit and to kill Snakes and even for
>protection from Bad People who you might just happen to Encounter out in

Ah, yes, that dreaded snow snake. They kill hundreds every year! <rbg>

I prefer a shotgun to a shovel for snake hunting...

"toller" <toller@yahoo.com> writes in article <FTrHe.2844$cg.1763@news02.roc.ny> dated Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:14:29 GMT:
>I have a cottage about a mile off the paved road. The first half of the
>gravel road has 25 degree down slopes and the second half has 25 degree up
>slopes. It can have several feet of wet Northeast snow.
>
>5 years ago I tried taking a Rav4 4wd in with about 6" of snow. I got to
>the midpoint, but it just spun on the uphill. Fortunately it did better
>going back on it's own tire tracks.
>
>How would a Ford F250 4x4 do? I have access to a 1995 rigged for
>snowplowing. What depth of snow could it reliably handle.
>
>Needless to say, I know nothing about 4x4s, except that I will not be trying
>my wife's Grand Caravan 4wd.

Sorry for the late reply, but it seems nobody has addressed the hill issue.

A 25-degree slope is huge. You need a coefficient of friction of at least
46 to be able to stop on the downslope. I don't think you'll get that
without chains. Don't try it without chains unless you have a straight run
afterwards where you can decellerate.

For the upslope, you simply need to get a running start. If you make it
halfway up the hill, you need to go sqrt(2) times faster on your next try.
(sqrt(2) = 1.414).

So, how high are the hills on each end?
1/2 * m * v^2 = m * h * g

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

"Spud Demon" wrote:
>
>
>For the upslope, you simply need to get a running start. If you make
>it
>halfway up the hill, you need to go sqrt(2) times faster on your next
>try.
>(sqrt(2) = 1.414).
>
>So, how high are the hills on each end?
>1/2 * m * v^2 = m * h * g
>
>-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
>The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

Not that simple because it does not factor in rolling resistance and
drag. It assume a zero fricton incline. It is these varibles that turn
simple equations into not so simple ones. Good thinking though.

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