She's giving me the eye, and I may have a date with her soon, but I'm still in two minds...



Here's the spec...

Land Rover Defender 90 300 Tdi Hard Top
Purchased in July 2009 full service history – 73920 miles to date 75312 (11/13)
Rebuilt (nut & bolt) 2011/ 12 using Marshland galvanised chassis


Engine, gearbox & transferbox
Original 300Tdi engine, gearbox & transferbox
New Allard large intercooler and silicone hoses fitted during rebuild
New electric radiator fan and X-eng fan thermostat housing controlled from dashboard
New timing belt fitted and idle pulley (spec) fitted during rebuild
Southdown snorkel fitted
Straight through side exit exhaust Partially Stainless steel


Chassis & Suspension
Marshland galvanised chassis fitted 2011/12 and internally waxoyled, complete with new polybushes
New chassis number provided and stamped to comply with DVLA (docs to prove)
Galvanised tubular front turrets
Pro-comp front shocks 2012
New diesel tank during rebuild 2012
2 off new track rod ends 2013
NATO hitch to rear


Axles & Brakes
Original front & rear axles with extended breathers
Grooved and drilled discs rear
New wheel bearings to rear axle 2012
Diff guards
New wheel bearing to O/S front 2013
New swivel seals and bearings 2013


Body
Replacement rear tub 2010 with powder coated body cappings
Re-skinned rear door and repaired frame work 2010
Bulkhead removal bar to improve driver seat travel
Replacement Stainless Steel chassis to body bracket during rebuild
New windscreen rubber and front window runners during rebuild
New door handles and locks during rebuild
Full panel respray during rebuild
Chequer plate to wing tops and bonnet
New door hinges and pins


Interior
Bucket seats
CD & CB Radio to Raptor style dash
2 off 12v sockets
2 off batteries with X-Eng split charging system
Secure spare wheel storage
Sports steering wheel
Fire extinguisher and seat belt knife
Oil pressure gauge to dash




Extras
16” wide offset modular wheel with Insa Turbo Special Track Tyres (inc spare) with wide wheel arches
Winch bumper (2 off SS swivel eye anchor points) and 9500lb winch (inc. 2 off remote controls) fitted with synthetic rope.
External cab roll cage fitted with 4 off spot lights
Steering guard
Rock sliders


Now then questions......


How easy is it to invisibly fill holes in the roof and wings if I take off that hideous roll cage? How easy is it to knock out the odd dent?


Those extended wheel arches.... is it easy to replace them with standard arches if I decide to put regular wheels back on it, or is the wing cut/adjusted fitting the wide ones?



What is the advantage of a wider wheelbase anyway and is it worth spoiling the visual perfection of the standard defender silhouette to achieve it?



She'd need a towbar, do they make a detachable jobbie I can take off easily for laning? Best adjustable height one? How much?


Sound proofing - she's got no knickers on how much can you get headlining, carperts etc, or whatever other sound proofing can you have and how much does that cost to do a proper job?


Personally I think the seller has devalued it by adding the useless roll cage (there's no bars inside it's just a bolt on) and the offset wheels. She's a beauty under all that chav glitter :lol: I've got pics of the rebuild etc. proper job.



If I have her I'd need a towbar, spare wheel carrier, and new A/Ts all round straight away, she's already starting to look expensive and we've not been out on a first date yet!


I want a 90 mainly as a work truck, towing vehicle, weekend laner, and winter road truck. I'd like to take it overland to Africa for my 50th in 2015 rough camping for a laugh


I'm struggling to value this, if I add the cost of the bits I need to use it to the asking price it seems way too much, on the other hand quality nut n bolt rebuilds don't seem to come up all that often.


Any thoughts much appreciated chaps.


Pumpy

I say buy it

Looks great, buy it

Offset wheels make them abit more stable and planted on the road especially if your towing. Just sell the insa turbos and get some 33x12.5 ATs or keep the insas on spare rims for laning


Arches will have holes drilled in the wings and the wing and tub trimmed underneath if fitted properly. Leave them on, I think they look pretty good.
A proper carpet and sound-deadening job can be pretty expensive but it'll be lovely to drive afterwards when all done.

would it be worth having the instas on off set rims for laning? If I have them as spares for laning I'll need them on some rims, so might as well have it right...

as the bank balance drops more before my very eyes.....:lol:

Probably as they are abit bigger than standard wheel size so if on standard off-set rims, they'll rub the radius arms at full lock. Wider track is never a bad thing when laning anyway as it lowers your center of gravity.

If you can afford it, your best bet is to probably leave those rims and tyres as is and use them for laning and then buy a AT wheel and tyre package.

Something along the lines of these of the 10x15 or 10x16 -32ET wheels here
Tyres Direct

And something like 33x12.5R15s or 295-305/75-70R16 All terrains.


Could use a narrower 8" rim too with 265/75s or something but you'll probably need spacers then for it to sit right. I'd go for a 10x15 and 33x12.5 though if it was me as I think they'd look best on it

id say that "chav glitter" is there because its been used for off roading which is a very un chavy sport. Plus i have them ofset wheels and i like the roll cage but chav i am not!

Looks like a nice landy id say buy it! or ill buy it

Pumpy said:

How easy is it to invisibly fill holes in the roof and wings if I take off that hideous roll cage? How easy is it to knock out the odd dent?

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Probably difficult enough, the problem is going to be that if you do fill it you will then need to prep and paint the areas. I would probably chemically bond something like a thin piece of aluminium to the inside, then put a thin skim of filler into it, fill it well, sand it out and spray, but that might be quite a lot of work. Other option would be to chemically bond something to the inside, then just rub some sikaflex or similar (not silicone) into the holes to seal them up. On the blue sections you may want to use a black sika. Or drill all the holes out to a slightly larger size so they are ALL equal, and buy some grommets?

Pumpy said:

Those extended wheel arches.... is it easy to replace them with standard arches if I decide to put regular wheels back on it, or is the wing cut/adjusted fitting the wide ones?

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Yes, but you will probably have fixing holes needing sorted.

Pumpy said:

What is the advantage of a wider wheelbase anyway and is it worth spoiling the visual perfection of the standard defender silhouette to achieve it?

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A little more stable, but lets be honest, millions of LR's work just fine they way they were built. The additional wheelbase increases the turning circle and also puts additional strain on the wheel bearings.

Pumpy said:

She'd need a towbar, do they make a detachable jobbie I can take off easily for laning? Best adjustable height one? How much?

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Yes this can be done, look on eBay for pricing, or fit a small hitch plate that doesn't protrude downward that much.

Pumpy said:

Sound proofing - she's got no knickers on how much can you get headlining, carperts etc, or whatever other sound proofing can you have and how much does that cost to do a proper job?

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Sounds noisy! It's costing me about £60 in 12mm closed cell foam with a self adhesive backing, I am also making my own foil/foam sandwich which cut costs significantly and works very well, that requires insulation foil and a can or 3 of durable (high temp, moisture resistant etc.) spray glue. A 6m roll of 3mm neoprane rubber which was about £20 for things like the boot floor, then 4mm marine ply on top of that with carpet bonded to it, which makes carpet boards with wrap around edges so I can have a nice carpeted back but it's fully removable for throwing wet dogs, logs, coal etc in the back. I will also make the foot wells up like this. I'd say about £200 all in to do a good job, that's me using local products, good auto carpet etc.

Pumpy said:

Personally I think the seller has devalued it by adding the useless roll cage (there's no bars inside it's just a bolt on) and the offset wheels. She's a beauty under all that chav glitter :lol: I've got pics of the rebuild etc. proper job.

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Yes I agree, but a lot of people like that sort of thing. I have a custom front bumper and my custom interior and that's it for me! You will be able to sell all the other stuff easily.

Pumpy said:

If I have her I'd need a towbar, spare wheel carrier, and new A/Ts all round straight away, she's already starting to look expensive and we've not been out on a first date yet!

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Why do you need to do all these things immediately? I can understand you may need a towbar quickly if you tow a lot, but could you not wait till you had sold some stuff and got some more funds to do it all?

Pumpy said:

I want a 90 mainly as a work truck, towing vehicle, weekend laner, and winter road truck. I'd like to take it overland to Africa for my 50th in 2015 rough camping for a laugh

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Sounds like a plan.

Pumpy said:

I'm struggling to value this, if I add the cost of the bits I need to use it to the asking price it seems way too much, on the other hand quality nut n bolt rebuilds don't seem to come up all that often.

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Not good at this, I know what my rebuild 300tdi is worth, but that doesn't mean I would get it.

Yep, Doubt a Chav would be going out buying Insa Turbos unless he just liked the thread print when parked on his lawn

Only thing I wouldn't be that keen on is the headlight gaurds really.

this is the hitch I have on mine and I find it brilliant and have done the guts of 10000 miles towing stuff with it. I had a dixon&bate adjustable drop plate but was acting like an anchor getting caught on everything when offroading

Receiver Hitch Def 90/110/130 up 1998

Just be careful though as using a Receiver hitch with a drop-plate isn't actually type approved but you might be ok if its pre-98.

Mine isn't as its a '03 but there isn't type approval on towing over here yet so I'll take my chances for the time being
Think Safari equip were suppose getting theirs type approved however

discomania said:

A little more stable, but lets be honest, millions of LR's work just fine they way they were built. The additional wheelbase increases the turning circle and also puts additional strain on the wheel bearings.

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Your not changing the wheelbase, its the track your changing and I would disagree to be honest. My 110 has just a good a turning circle with 33x12.5 tyres on -32 offset rims as a 110 on standard wheels and both have the lock-stops adjusted properly.
It has a tighter turning circle than my Dads standard Disco 2 as well. A 90 will be better again so I couldn't see where the problem would be.

Sure, you could probably get a tighter turning circle again with the really narrow 6.5x16" rims and tiny tyres but they both look crap especially on that Defender as well as wouldn't be as stable towing or as good green-laning.

discomania: top reply your soundproofing sounds genius! Another £200 on the spend list...

I was considering getting the tires locally when I pick it up, it'll be a 250 mile trip home, with no steering damper it gets steering wobble at 60mph with the mud tires on don't fancy sitting at 55mph all the way home, but it'll work out cheaper if I do.

DaveM-sport: cheers for that!

5 off 10 x 15 rims £250
5 off General Grabber A/Ts £650

I had a look at the Southdown drop down tow plate, looks like a good bit of kit, but adds another £250

won't get much change from £200 for a swing away spare wheel carrier so I can actually use the load space

£1650 so far then... and I still need an alarm....

Err is it me but I can't see a price. Looks pretty good but I'd put an alarm top of the shopping list

Yep, it can add up very quickly!

I spent about 4-5K on my 110 since I got it last winter but I can't do much else to it really now other than a full rebuild with galvanised chassis if it ever needs one in years to come

Depending on the price of the 90, it wouldn't be bad considering what you'll have for that money and you'll have wheels and tyres for both on and offroading which is a big bonus.

A steering dampener will help alot really no matter what wheels are on it. The Terrafirma RTC one seems to be good.

Add some balance beads to the tyres too to get rid of any wobbling or vibration from them.

It's N reg, 95/6 wants 7k

but yeah it will last me 20yrs or more so I'm getting used to the idea...

You can get that hitch cheaper elsewhere

SteNova said:

You can get that hitch cheaper elsewhere

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cheers mate, just looking for ballpark numbers atm, this was more an exercise in adding up the bits I need, with the cost of the vehicle, to then go and compare what else is on the market for the total.

I've not seen owt for 9k better than this will be after I finish spending 2k on it

DaveM-sport said:

Your not changing the wheelbase, its the track your changing and I would disagree to be honest. My 110 has just a good a turning circle with 33x12.5 tyres on -32 offset rims as a 110 on standard wheels and both have the lock-stops adjusted properly.
It has a tighter turning circle than my Dads standard Disco 2 as well. A 90 will be better again so I couldn't see where the problem would be.

Sure, you could probably get a tighter turning circle again with the really narrow 6.5x16" rims and tiny tyres but they both look crap especially on that Defender as well as wouldn't be as stable towing or as good green-laning.

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Those tyres on it WILL increase his turning circle, if he put some smaller more road biased tyres on it, his turning would be decreased because those tyres WILL hit the radius arms (although if the bump stops are set up properly it won't but by doing this the lock has been reduced) sooner than a smaller road tyre.

discomania said:

Those tyres on it WILL increase his turning circle, if he put some smaller more road biased tyres on it, his turning would be decreased because those tyres WILL hit the radius arms (although if the bump stops are set up properly it won't but by doing this the lock has been reduced) sooner than a smaller road tyre.

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+1, noisy and wont help wheel bearing life either!

Smaller tyres will look rubbish with those arches though

I still fail to see how smaller tyres will give a noticeably better turning circle than say a set of 33x12.5s on 10x15 -32ET rims.
Main reason is because my lockstops are almost fully wound in and only just about rub the radius arm at full lock so I can't actually get much more lock even if I had smaller tyres on them.

I actually did have the stops wound in fully but only had to bring them back out a few thread again due to fitting castor-correction radius arms that were a good bit wider than standard arms.

Before fitting these, the tyres were about 10mm away from the arms on full lock with the lockstops in as far as they could go. Only way of getting more lock would be to remove the lockstop studs


Bearing for Defenders are cheap anyway I've done 20K this year in mine with only replacing the fronts once and tightening the rears.

Now, if you had 35s, that's a completely different story


7K is definitely to the higher end of 90 prices but given the gear on that one and if everything else is in good order, it may not be too much in the long run. Unless you'd be happy with a completely standard one in good condition for a few grand less, it still seems good value.

The winch and winc bumper would cost the bones of 1000 quid to buy. I was the same when I was buying mine. Added up the cost of the parts on the one I really wanted and to get them for a standard one, it nearly added up to the asking price of the one I bought and the cost of a good standard one wasn't much less anyway so it was a no-brainer. Only trouble was I was broke for a few months then and the temptation to still add more stuff to put my own stamp on it was too much

DaveM-sport said:

Smaller tyres will look rubbish with those arches though

I still fail to see how smaller tyres will give a noticeably better turning circle than say a set of 33x12.5s on 10x15 -32ET rims.

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Thats why you have no lock issues. The rest of us mostly run around on standard ET, -6 is it? i can never remember.

I have seen your motor, and very nice it is, but its not for everyone as some like the OP want a workhorse and a tow car.

If you widen the track with either wider rims or spacers then you will wear and stress CV's, bearings etc quicker. Fact, thats physics.

If the OP wants to use it for towing then 12.5 tyres are not going to be great for fuelling or road noise. The Gearing will be effected also, you will be dropping down gears on hills etc as there won't be the torque available.

You don't need massive tyres or extreme tread tyres(ins a turbos, simex etc) for laning. In fact I'm a fan of not using them as in the wrong hands they can unnescessarily cause damage to lanes.

It sounds like the OP needs some AT's more or less a standard size or maybe some 265/75/16 to give it a little wider look.

Great stuff chaps, I'm not overly concerned with fuel economy I only did 2500 miles last yr, the diff between 30mpg & 28mpg is only 6 gal on the yr. and my current vehicle is a 3.0l V6 petrol shogun so it's going to seem cheap anyway, specially the tax Course I hope to do more miles on the lanes in it.

nah, sod practicalities like fuel economy, it's got to look right :lol:

I hope my wife doesn't see this thread, last time I mentioned spending I said I was looking around the 5k mark ound: