Baloney999

Active Member
The internet, blogs, and social media, have been a rich source of criticism of the ‘New’ Defender, and the majority of comments have focused on how it doesn’t look like the old Defender, despite the fact that it has not been fully unveiled; or that it won’t have the same utilitarian qualities as its predecessor, or even perhaps that it won’t break down often enough!

It is always difficult to please all of the people all of the time… but some of the comments have been emotive and quite unjust, so let’s go back to the beginning and examine what the new model really represents, and see if Land Rover can fit the bill with its new model.

When the Rover Group introduced the Land Rover originally, it met a business need and the needs of its customers; a utilitarian, go anywhere vehicle which could be adapted for multiple applications. Over time, as new technology came along, the technology was quickly introduced to the range. Ok, the Series Land Rover retained its leaf springs until the arrival of the Defender, but in terms of the product range, innovations were researched, developed and incorporated as soon as practically possible. A coil spring Range Rover was introduced, later, the concept of coil springs was incorporated into the design of the Discovery which was introduced to match an increasing market for sports utility vehicles. Even then, Land Rover was leading the market as most of the competitors in that class were still using leaf springs in the rear of their trucks.

Then came the Defender, incorporating the suspension system used in the Range Rover and Discovery and then later, using the newly developed Td5 engine which used the latest engine technology for reliability, economy and power. Again, Land Rover later demonstrated their concept of using all technology and engineering across the model range by using the Td5 engine in the Discovery Series 2 together with the steadily developing air spring technology and ACE system for cornering stability.

In time, we saw the introduction of new models: the Range Rover Sport, new Discovery and Range Rover models, the Range Rover Evoque, all of which built on the technology of their predecessors to create a model fit for the market it was aimed at, and for the first time in its history, Land Rover began to make a profit! In the introduction of the Velar we then saw an engineering development that will have a significant impact on the model that follows, at least for those of us that noticed. The Velar was offered with air suspension, or ‘conventional’ coil springs. Building on the development of dynamic damping systems which had been included in the Range Rover model range, Land Rover were now able to offer two sophisticated suspension systems within one model. (They had previously offered rear air spring, or fully coil options on the Discovery 2 which was perhaps an indication of where things were going but they were able to fully realise it in the production of the Velar).

Which now leaves us with the new Land Rover model, not the ‘New Defender’, because as I hope I have illustrated, as much as the die-hard Defender defenders would like it, no model stands alone at Land Rover. They have been producing the best 4X4XFAR for over 70 years in a variety of forms, each tailored for its particular market, and in each case incorporating the technical innovations of its predecessor. The New Defender is no different, and the challenge for Land Rover was to use the engineering and technical knowledge they had gleaned from 70 years of development into a new rugged off-road vehicle (which, in the vast majority of cases will be used primarily as a car); the latest Land Rover, rather than the ‘New Defender’.

The old Defender is not the Land Rover that we should measure this new model against because the Defender was built for another world in another time. The Defender we knew does not represent Land Rover, it represented Land Rover as the latest version of a go-anywhere vehicle when it was introduced, but not now. The Land Rover we need now has to be built for now.

So what can we expect from the New Defender when it is formally introduced? First, we can expect it to incorporate all the technological innovations developed from the other models, for example, from the new engine factory: an efficient, powerful power unit. From the Velar: a choice of air suspension, or coil springs. From the Defender: a rugged frame, capable of withstanding hard knocks and unyielding terrain. Also from the Defender, options to simplify the vehicle systems to allow the vehicle to operate in remote locations (such as the production of 300Tdi export versions of the Defender until 2007). From the Defender 130: a properly engineered extra-long wheelbase version. From the Discovery 1: an interior design tailored for the vehicle’s intended use, such as overhead storage. These are just some of the things we can expect. When it is revealed, I am sure we will see many other features that can be directly linked to recent models.

All that will be packaged in a design which reflects not only the lineage but also the development of the marque so it will not look like a Defender because it is not the replacement for the Defender, it will look like what it is; the latest Land Rover. A vehicle to meet the needs of the market it is aimed at, just like every other Land Rover ever produced. It will look like a Discovery, a Range Rover, an Evoque, a Velar, because they are Land Rover.
 
Eloquently put, you should work for the JLR PR department.

I fear your logical and completely rational explanation will be misunderstood by many.

The new ‘Defender’ is unique in many ways, not least because of its unrefined icon status. As a vehicle it did not evolve over time like Range Rover or Discovery, so anything newly introduced as next generation is a departure from the familiar.

I like new for what it represents , I also like the heritage for what that gave us.

I hope it’s as successful as JLR anticipate.
 
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Like many or a few here the Last Defender ended on the production. To make a new version that doesn't have the hallmarks of the past one is just proving, JLR are just pandering to corporate ideals and not practicality of the purpose of Defenders et al Series for Farmers and military.
 
@slomofo, he he! Thanks for the compliment, I just wanted to challenge the defend the Defender or die brigade. I'm a Landy Fan not a Defender fan. I have my eye on a nice 88" Series 2 at the moment...
 
I personally don't have an issue with the new Land Rover and having a TD5 90 and Velar in the household both are great in their own ways. I think the issue is that Land Rover are clearly marketing the new model on the success of the old Defender and therefore, people are going to naturally compare them!! So to that point... if I damage the wheel arch on my existing 90, I simply take it off and replace on my own driveway. If I did the same on the new model (based on pic's seen and could be provided wrong) I'll be taking it back to LRJ for major bodywork. Therefore, they are two very different beast and should not be compared too or marketed in relation to each other.

Yes the new model may be very capable off-road (as are all the models in the LRJ stable) and it may even be more so than the Defender, but its durability and easy of repair (not to mention the cost of such repairs) means it will never match the success of the series/ 90/110s and Defenders in the same way in that arena because people just wont want to risk damaging something that is already expensive to buy and even more so to repair!! don't see many Velars, RR's and New Disco's green-laning!! So it (like the others) will be limited to tarmac, pulling caravans and the school runs... and that is probably way so many people are not fans, because it will not be a Defender other than in name.
 
As said, a very eloquent & informative narrative that I enjoyed reading … thank you for posting.
I've neither the funds or the desire to purchase any of todays JLR products, regardless of whether my needs were for work or play so the new model holds zero interest for me. In my humble opinion JLR would be better served by designing/building vehicles that could at least equal the reliability of main-stream vehicles, then if that proves impossible, to have the spares back-up to meet the demands of warranty claims that shouldn't arise in the first place … but of course that is not what 'marketing' is all about.
For the sake of JLR's extensive workforce I hope the new model is a success, even if it (will be) overpriced & overrated.
 
Yup, it's a Land Rover ok

66753549_10157306294269801_6915920141481934848_n.jpg
 
The internet, blogs, and social media, have been a rich source of criticism of the ‘New’ Defender, and the majority of comments have focused on how it doesn’t look like the old Defender, despite the fact that it has not been fully unveiled; or that it won’t have the same utilitarian qualities as its predecessor, or even perhaps that it won’t break down often enough!

It is always difficult to please all of the people all of the time… but some of the comments have been emotive and quite unjust, so let’s go back to the beginning and examine what the new model really represents, and see if Land Rover can fit the bill with its new model.

When the Rover Group introduced the Land Rover originally, it met a business need and the needs of its customers; a utilitarian, go anywhere vehicle which could be adapted for multiple applications. Over time, as new technology came along, the technology was quickly introduced to the range. Ok, the Series Land Rover retained its leaf springs until the arrival of the Defender, but in terms of the product range, innovations were researched, developed and incorporated as soon as practically possible. A coil spring Range Rover was introduced, later, the concept of coil springs was incorporated into the design of the Discovery which was introduced to match an increasing market for sports utility vehicles. Even then, Land Rover was leading the market as most of the competitors in that class were still using leaf springs in the rear of their trucks.

Then came the Defender, incorporating the suspension system used in the Range Rover and Discovery and then later, using the newly developed Td5 engine which used the latest engine technology for reliability, economy and power. Again, Land Rover later demonstrated their concept of using all technology and engineering across the model range by using the Td5 engine in the Discovery Series 2 together with the steadily developing air spring technology and ACE system for cornering stability.

In time, we saw the introduction of new models: the Range Rover Sport, new Discovery and Range Rover models, the Range Rover Evoque, all of which built on the technology of their predecessors to create a model fit for the market it was aimed at, and for the first time in its history, Land Rover began to make a profit! In the introduction of the Velar we then saw an engineering development that will have a significant impact on the model that follows, at least for those of us that noticed. The Velar was offered with air suspension, or ‘conventional’ coil springs. Building on the development of dynamic damping systems which had been included in the Range Rover model range, Land Rover were now able to offer two sophisticated suspension systems within one model. (They had previously offered rear air spring, or fully coil options on the Discovery 2 which was perhaps an indication of where things were going but they were able to fully realise it in the production of the Velar).

Which now leaves us with the new Land Rover model, not the ‘New Defender’, because as I hope I have illustrated, as much as the die-hard Defender defenders would like it, no model stands alone at Land Rover. They have been producing the best 4X4XFAR for over 70 years in a variety of forms, each tailored for its particular market, and in each case incorporating the technical innovations of its predecessor. The New Defender is no different, and the challenge for Land Rover was to use the engineering and technical knowledge they had gleaned from 70 years of development into a new rugged off-road vehicle (which, in the vast majority of cases will be used primarily as a car); the latest Land Rover, rather than the ‘New Defender’.

The old Defender is not the Land Rover that we should measure this new model against because the Defender was built for another world in another time. The Defender we knew does not represent Land Rover, it represented Land Rover as the latest version of a go-anywhere vehicle when it was introduced, but not now. The Land Rover we need now has to be built for now.

So what can we expect from the New Defender when it is formally introduced? First, we can expect it to incorporate all the technological innovations developed from the other models, for example, from the new engine factory: an efficient, powerful power unit. From the Velar: a choice of air suspension, or coil springs. From the Defender: a rugged frame, capable of withstanding hard knocks and unyielding terrain. Also from the Defender, options to simplify the vehicle systems to allow the vehicle to operate in remote locations (such as the production of 300Tdi export versions of the Defender until 2007). From the Defender 130: a properly engineered extra-long wheelbase version. From the Discovery 1: an interior design tailored for the vehicle’s intended use, such as overhead storage. These are just some of the things we can expect. When it is revealed, I am sure we will see many other features that can be directly linked to recent models.

All that will be packaged in a design which reflects not only the lineage but also the development of the marque so it will not look like a Defender because it is not the replacement for the Defender, it will look like what it is; the latest Land Rover. A vehicle to meet the needs of the market it is aimed at, just like every other Land Rover ever produced. It will look like a Discovery, a Range Rover, an Evoque, a Velar, because they are Land Rover.
Ere wot about Freelander's?

Coil suspension was put on the 90 int 1984 and 110 int 1983. Before the defender ;)
 
Ere wot about Freelander's?

Coil suspension was put on the 90 int 1984 and 110 int 1983. Before the defender ;)
Ah yes, the Freelander... Could that not be considered a mini test-bed for the L322? Introduced before the L322 and the first Land Rover to do away with the ladder-frame chassis?

I take your point on the 90/110 but as virtually only the engine changed eventually, I always think of them as pre-production Defenders.
 
Even though I love landrovers and have done since I was a kid 50 odd years ago, I don't think landrovers of any kind are the best 4x4x far any more. I'm sad to say it but I think that title now belongs to Toyota. If I was a farmer or in some other occupation that relied on a rugged, reliable 4x4, I would buy a Toyota.

Col
 
Ah yes, the Freelander... Could that not be considered a mini test-bed for the L322? Introduced before the L322 and the first Land Rover to do away with the ladder-frame chassis?

I take your point on the 90/110 but as virtually only the engine changed eventually, I always think of them as pre-production Defenders.
The freelander set the design criteria for all future lr's. Independent suspension with no chassis. They have all followed the trend as they knew it made sense. ;)
 

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