tom1979

tom1979

Well-Known Member
Full Member
hi all I have a TD5 defender 90 (2000/10p) with a generic chip upgrade and allisport intercooler (also 1.2 ratio gears and 33" wheels). It's always had a bit of black smoke which I put down to the "blind tuning" but recently noticed it's really quite bad, as some cyclists down in Dorset found out this weekend o_O Also currently have a warped manifold.

I remember a few years we wondered if the wastegate rod was actually moving and we found it was quite stiff but eventually got it moving with some lubricant and mole grips, thought job done. Question is, would a stuck or sticky wastegate cause excessive black smoke? How much should it move by hand and how easy should it be?

It drives fairly well (nothing to compare to) and on a run from Bedford to Dorset this weekend maxed out at 88mph. This is fine if we had a flux capacitor and wanted to go back in time but thought with the disco gearing it would get up higher than that (admittedly I wouldn't really want it to!)

Interested to know about the wastegate rod. May be nothing to do with it

Cheers
 
Anyone? I have disconnected the rod and as in the attached photo part B is nice and loose but the rod (A) will not move unless I stand in front of the engine using molegrips and my body weight to move it.

TD5 Wastegate by Tom Cross, on Flickr
 
B should move very freely. A should be quite stiff as inside the "head" theres a spring/diaphragm that controls the boost level. You should be able to move it with some force and mole grips but it shouldnt be loose either.

Black smoke is an imbalance of fuel and air. Most likely down to your "blind tune", that said check all your boost hoses are solid without cracks or splits (dads RR just split a boost hose and its currently rolling coal!), check the intercooler is intact as well.

As for the manifold I went for one of these should prevent it from warping again, use some copper flashed nuts to refit with, they will help if you ever need to remove it again. Also be prepared for sheered studs, very common and very hard to remove properly!
 
They are pretty stiff but you should be able to move it with moles, take care not to bend the rod or damage the actuator they are quite expensive.
The best test is if you can get a source of compressed air and a pressure regulator( I know not everyone has this) if you disconnect the small rubber pipe which connects into the delivery hose of the turbo couple the air supply to the actuator and slowly up the pressure you can see it operate and get some idea of the pressure when it starts to open.
 
raywin said:
They are pretty stiff but you should be able to move it with moles, take care not to bend the rod or damage the actuator they are quite expensive.
The best test is if you can get a source of compressed air and a pressure regulator( I know not everyone has this) if you disconnect the small rubber pipe which connects into the delivery hose of the turbo couple the air supply to the actuator and slowly up the pressure you can see it operate and get some idea of the pressure when it starts to open.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the thin pipe that goes to the actuator?
 
bankz5152 said:
B should move very freely. A should be quite stiff as inside the "head" theres a spring/diaphragm that controls the boost level. You should be able to move it with some force and mole grips but it shouldnt be loose either.

Black smoke is an imbalance of fuel and air. Most likely down to your "blind tune", that said check all your boost hoses are solid without cracks or splits (dads RR just split a boost hose and its currently rolling coal!), check the intercooler is intact as well.

As for the manifold I went for one of these should prevent it from warping again, use some copper flashed nuts to refit with, they will help if you ever need to remove it again. Also be prepared for sheered studs, very common and very hard to remove properly!
Click to expand...

I was just going to get it skimmed and use decent bolts, hopefully it can't warp any more than it has! It's got an Allisport intercooler about a year old
 
tom1979 said:
Do you mean the thin pipe that goes to the actuator?
Click to expand...
That's the one, its actually controlling the delivery pressure of the turbo by feeding it into the actuator, when the pressure gets to a point where it overcomes the spring then it starts to move pushing the rod (A) forward and operating the gate (B) , this then lets the exhaust gas bypass the turbo and reduces the driving force
 
Thanks what kind of pressure should it have? Just thinking may even the compressor turned right down might be too much for it what you do reckon?

Mine is MUCH tighter than this:
 
Last edited:
To test it I hooked into my compressor and used a pressure regulator fitted with a gauge so I could slowly raise the pressure and see when it opened, my compressor has a regulator on one of the outlets, but I had a better one which was useful.
My TD5 boosts up to just over 1 bar I fitted a gauge by teeing into the little pipe and replacing my clock with a boost gauge, you can clearly see the gauge start to flutter at about 1.2 bar and then it drops back a fraction, its helpful to know how the turbo is behaving.
 
Old actuators used to build up sludge inside cos the boost which goes into them is not clean then get sticky, even if it seems to be working well a very old one is not 100% good anymore so IMO the best is to fit a NEW one cos it's not very expensive http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rove...5-Waste-Gate-Actuator-for-Turbo-/252863494529 or if you can afford this one https://www.forgemotorsport.com/Adj...Defender_or_Discovery_TD5--product--1033.html , expensive but makes a difference, i have it and the boost curve is much smoother.... i cut my old one in half out of curiosity after i replaced it a while ago, too bad i didnt take pics to show you a reall mess

then you can rest your mind in this area for a while
 
sierrafery said:
Old actuators used tu build up sludge inside cos the boost which goes into them is not clean then get sticky, even if it seems to be working well a very old one is not 100% good anymore so IMO the best is to fit a NEW one cos it's not very expensive http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rove...5-Waste-Gate-Actuator-for-Turbo-/252863494529 or if you can afford this one https://www.forgemotorsport.com/Adj...Defender_or_Discovery_TD5--product--1033.html , expensive but makes a difference, i have it and the boost curve is much smoother.

then you can rest your mind in this area for a while
Click to expand...

I didnt find the Forge made much of a difference on my TD5, if anything it came on boost slightly slower
 
maybe it works better together with the modulator but my impression was of noticeable improvement.... did you adjust it to max allowed?
 
sierrafery said:
Old actuators used to build up sludge inside cos the boost which goes into them is not clean then get sticky, even if it seems to be working well a very old one is not 100% good anymore so IMO the best is to fit a NEW one cos it's not very expensive http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rove...5-Waste-Gate-Actuator-for-Turbo-/252863494529 or if you can afford this one https://www.forgemotorsport.com/Adj...Defender_or_Discovery_TD5--product--1033.html , expensive but makes a difference, i have it and the boost curve is much smoother.... i cut my old one in half out of curiosity after i replaced it a while ago, too bad i didnt take pics to show you a reall mess

then you can rest your mind in this area for a while
Click to expand...
First time I have seen the cheap one, I looked in the past but no luck.
Might even do mine now just to have a better on on there.
 
well its working but 20psi seems a bit on the high side I have attached a chart from my Nanocom when I tested mine, pressure shown is absolute so need to deduct 1 bar to get gauge pressure

upload_2017-7-18_15-42-28.png
 
I don't have the exact number the spring is progressive so it needs to start moving just below 15psi and move fully forward at about 20 psi, maybe someone has checked it more recently than I have and might have some numbers from a newer actuator.
 
raywin said:
I don't have the exact number the spring is progressive so it needs to start moving just below 15psi and move fully forward at about 20 psi, maybe someone has checked it more recently than I have and might have some numbers from a newer actuator.
Click to expand...

That sounds about what it was so I think I can rule out the wastegate, although now they're available separately and quite cheap I might get one as a spare
 
tom1979 said:
hi all I have a TD5 defender 90 (2000/10p) with a generic chip upgrade and allisport intercooler (also 1.2 ratio gears and 33" wheels). It's always had a bit of black smoke which I put down to the "blind tuning" but recently noticed it's really quite bad, as some cyclists down in Dorset found out this weekend o_O Also currently have a warped manifold.

I remember a few years we wondered if the wastegate rod was actually moving and we found it was quite stiff but eventually got it moving with some lubricant and mole grips, thought job done. Question is, would a stuck or sticky wastegate cause excessive black smoke? How much should it move by hand and how easy should it be?

It drives fairly well (nothing to compare to) and on a run from Bedford to Dorset this weekend maxed out at 88mph. This is fine if we had a flux capacitor and wanted to go back in time but thought with the disco gearing it would get up higher than that (admittedly I wouldn't really want it to!)

Interested to know about the wastegate rod. May be nothing to do with it

Cheers
Click to expand...
black smoke indicates unburnt fuel ie rolling Coal
.you could disconnect actuator and tie the gate shut with a piece of wire then test drive mind you this will be max boost just to rule out the black smoke issue does it get worse or better
or disconnect signal line to the actuator.. I tend to like to disconnect and tie the gate open and closed and test
also a faulty EGR system can also allow black smoke

remove air filter and test drive to rule out a faulty air filter media that may of been damaged by water does the black smoke get worse or better

boost gauge helps allot

without the correct tool you cant test injectors for any compensation ,,, I normally stay away from chips and remaps from experience from work... software issues and updates are needed frequently ..unsure why this is they must fall out of calibration during there life span or they learn new things that cant be erased (hard reset )

I also have a warped manifold replaced the gasket many times and drill out broken manifold studs this is common due to the fact the manifold wasn't heat treated when manufactured (our driving is now heat treating the material )
so once the warp they need to be machined flat
I have found that some landriuser engines use the same shape in gasket (individual gaskets ) they are way way thicker than the waver thin TD5 gasket and they are using a better material
all I had to do was to open one of the stud holes slightly on the new gaskets up to now they are working good ...its been well over 2 years that I had to work on my manifold

but I geuss it all come to how much black smoke to have some fun
 
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