Nodge68
Well-Known Member
That's definitely a split, which will leak under pressure.
I did wonder about making a new piston out of something stronger, maybe out 2024-T3 aircraft grade aluminium billet, turned to the correct dimensions.
I did wonder about making a new piston out of something stronger, maybe out 2024-T3 aircraft grade aluminium billet, turned to the correct dimensions.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
The replacement has more 'meat' in the corner edge and a different profile on the edge along with a thicker top and reduced thickness on the top radials to offset the change and make it fit.
Photos are going off to LR HQ as they don't recognise the tech bulletin showing a 2001 year defect. Maybe it was used longer too??
Photos are going off to LR HQ as they don't recognise the tech bulletin showing a 2001 year defect. Maybe it was used longer too??
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
I do wish I'd kept the gearbox parts for my old SE auto.
I'd have been able to do some measuring on the piston, to see if it's possible to make one. The factory piston is obviously cast, and going by the quality, not very well cast.
It's little wonder they fail, when they're clearly made down to a price.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Here's the photos and an outline of what I have done to change the Reverse / High clutch Drum on the outside end of a Jatco JF506E auto box. Fitted to a 2000MY TD4.
First, bought a replacement set of friction rings for both clutches and a new (redesigned) Reverse Piston.
The friction rings are going to be fitted to my donor box Rev/High Drum and then I am exchanging this for the suspect one in the TD4.
The new piston is to compare with the old (when I strip the failed item down) and then I shall use it to raise the design fault with LR (again) and then repair the failed drum with this and replace it back in my donor box ! Hope you are still with me !
First - how to replace clutch rings on the drum.
Remove outer snap ring, lift out and store the reverse rings in order.
Remove inner snap ring, lift out and store the high rings in order.
Then you are left with this, if you want to go further and take the reverse piston out then it involves clamping the remains and taking out another ring but I will come back to this later on the failed drum.
Insert new rings (1.6mm thick) in exactly the same order (friction between steels) in both clutches and replace snap rings.
One completed refurbished drum ready to fit to the vehicle.
Let's now go over to the car - a 2000 MY TD4 Automatic.
First, bought a replacement set of friction rings for both clutches and a new (redesigned) Reverse Piston.
The friction rings are going to be fitted to my donor box Rev/High Drum and then I am exchanging this for the suspect one in the TD4.
The new piston is to compare with the old (when I strip the failed item down) and then I shall use it to raise the design fault with LR (again) and then repair the failed drum with this and replace it back in my donor box ! Hope you are still with me !
First - how to replace clutch rings on the drum.
Remove outer snap ring, lift out and store the reverse rings in order.
Remove inner snap ring, lift out and store the high rings in order.
Then you are left with this, if you want to go further and take the reverse piston out then it involves clamping the remains and taking out another ring but I will come back to this later on the failed drum.
Insert new rings (1.6mm thick) in exactly the same order (friction between steels) in both clutches and replace snap rings.
One completed refurbished drum ready to fit to the vehicle.
Let's now go over to the car - a 2000 MY TD4 Automatic.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
To prepare the car, the gearbox has to be lowered at the nearside end so that the end plate can be removed. After some significant help from Nodge, I decided to try by just removing the battery tray (to access the gearbox mounts), the selector cable (so that it didn't get crushed) and the lower tie bar (so that the assembly would drop as far as possible). The limiting factor is the inner driveshaft joint hitting the subframe as can be seen in the photos - but it can be done if you drop it as far as possible without damaging the inner joint boot.
Remove and tuck selector cable out of the way the other side of the subframe to prevent damage.
Remove the lower tie bar and bolts and put out of the way to allow the engine and box to tilt to one side when lowered.
When you are sure that the gearbox end is supported adequately (I used a transmission jack) then loosen and remove the 4 x gearbox mounts.
Lower, checking for anything going tight - cables etc - until the inner bootie says a very close hello to the subframe !
You then get a better view of the end plate and enough room to unbolt and remove it - see above in the thread for caution on the spring loaded nature of the plate - it comes off with a jolt once the sealant is broken. Gentle prising in the areas where the plate overlaps the box does the job.
Remove, clean (without getting sealant in the box!) I covered the workings with cloth while I did it.
Once inside the outer drum (the one required) just slides off. New drum in, align the notches in the clutches first and slide on, seal and replace end plate.
Don't forget the roller bearings - one each side of the assembly - they can fall off !!
Job done - once all that removed is reinstated and fluid replaced, level checked etc......
Now - let's go and look in the failed drum and take it into about 30 bits !!!
Remove and tuck selector cable out of the way the other side of the subframe to prevent damage.
Remove the lower tie bar and bolts and put out of the way to allow the engine and box to tilt to one side when lowered.
When you are sure that the gearbox end is supported adequately (I used a transmission jack) then loosen and remove the 4 x gearbox mounts.
Lower, checking for anything going tight - cables etc - until the inner bootie says a very close hello to the subframe !
You then get a better view of the end plate and enough room to unbolt and remove it - see above in the thread for caution on the spring loaded nature of the plate - it comes off with a jolt once the sealant is broken. Gentle prising in the areas where the plate overlaps the box does the job.
Remove, clean (without getting sealant in the box!) I covered the workings with cloth while I did it.
Once inside the outer drum (the one required) just slides off. New drum in, align the notches in the clutches first and slide on, seal and replace end plate.
Don't forget the roller bearings - one each side of the assembly - they can fall off !!
Job done - once all that removed is reinstated and fluid replaced, level checked etc......
Now - let's go and look in the failed drum and take it into about 30 bits !!!
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Remove reverse and high clutch plates as above, then compress (I used G clamp and a piece of wood behind the assembly) the inner ring to allow removal of the small central snap ring. It will not come off without compressing the assembly and you will need to compress it on reassembly.
Reverse piston slides out, takes a bit of fiddling as the ATF has a suction effect on it.
You can see some marks - magnified looks like this ....
Also, the high clutch friction rings were burnt and worn. They measured twice as worn as the 80K box rings !! This box has done 31K.
And lastly (for now) the old and new reverse piston design.
Old on the left. I have fitted new sealing rings to the new one on the right.
The new one has a more pronounced profile on the edge and also has a thicker top (in this photo). The 4 x bars have been slimmed on the new one to accommodate the thicker top within the same space.
Tomorrow - fill the car with ATF and road test it !!!
Reverse piston slides out, takes a bit of fiddling as the ATF has a suction effect on it.
You can see some marks - magnified looks like this ....
And lastly (for now) the old and new reverse piston design.
Old on the left. I have fitted new sealing rings to the new one on the right.
The new one has a more pronounced profile on the edge and also has a thicker top (in this photo). The 4 x bars have been slimmed on the new one to accommodate the thicker top within the same space.
Tomorrow - fill the car with ATF and road test it !!!
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
BTW - Reverse and High Clutch RIngs, Replacement reverse piston and next day postage cost £80.
Brilliant service from Vanmatic - Hayes, London.
Sell spares and provide service on most auto boxes. Highly recommended for parts.
Brilliant service from Vanmatic - Hayes, London.
Sell spares and provide service on most auto boxes. Highly recommended for parts.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
New fluid to flush out any burnt clutch dust.
The vanmatic website has great parts lists and pictures.
I ordered 2 x 86.pf.12 reverse friction.
5 x 47.pf.03 high friction.
And a reverse piston. 86.pn.03
Check out the website, good technical sheets on there too.
The vanmatic website has great parts lists and pictures.
I ordered 2 x 86.pf.12 reverse friction.
5 x 47.pf.03 high friction.
And a reverse piston. 86.pn.03
Check out the website, good technical sheets on there too.
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andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Here's the parts list.
They do a drum repair kit but I didn't need the steel bands.
They do a drum repair kit but I didn't need the steel bands.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Good result. Flaring 3rd to 4th sorted. Down changes smoother.
Drives like it should.
Just waiting for ATF to cool to about 35 to 38 deg C then will recheck level and hand it back to the wife.
Had a minor 'wtf' moment as when I first started the car and selected reverse with all the clutches drained etc, it went nowhere for about 3 seconds!!!
Drives like it should.
Just waiting for ATF to cool to about 35 to 38 deg C then will recheck level and hand it back to the wife.
Had a minor 'wtf' moment as when I first started the car and selected reverse with all the clutches drained etc, it went nowhere for about 3 seconds!!!
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you're sorted now Andy. You've paved the way for others to fix this issue too.
It's something I should have got round to doing on my SE, and not doing so affected how much I could sell her for.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Yes it may help others with similar issues.
I have re-written to LR HQ in the hope that they see the lack of a recall as an omission on their part. Sent the tech bulletin and photos of the modification and split. We'll see if they are interested.
I expect Freelanders have been scrapped because of this manufacturing defect!!
I have re-written to LR HQ in the hope that they see the lack of a recall as an omission on their part. Sent the tech bulletin and photos of the modification and split. We'll see if they are interested.
I expect Freelanders have been scrapped because of this manufacturing defect!!
Nodge68
Well-Known Member
Good luck with that.
Just to warn.
LR aren't interested in the many thousands of D3s,4s,5s and RRSs that have suffered crankshaft failure at anything from 10k to 100k miles. It seems they deny there's a problem with the TDV6 engine, but they suffer crankshaft failure in huge numbers.
Matt2000
Member
Great to hear that the problem is fixed, not that I ever had any doubt! I'm going to save all the pictures, study them carefully and then plan my attack. I don't believe that any of this is beyond me apart from not having a way of levelling the vehicle, Hipporamps look great but they're now £130+ to build! Maybe I can beg/steal/borrow someone's workshop lift for a day.
I don't have any faith in LR to deal with quality issues, maybe this will be different though. I do know that I would never buy a TDV6 due to known issues like the one mentioned.
I don't have any faith in LR to deal with quality issues, maybe this will be different though. I do know that I would never buy a TDV6 due to known issues like the one mentioned.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
Why not jack the front, fit axle stands, jack the rear, fit axle stands. Worth buying 4 if you don't have them.
Then all work can be done without moving it. Also, if your drive is not level the axle stands can be adjusted to accommodate this.
Then all work can be done without moving it. Also, if your drive is not level the axle stands can be adjusted to accommodate this.
Matt2000
Member
I was looking up how to jack up a Freelander 1 with a trolley jack but got nowhere, meant to ask somewhere in here but forgot. Can it be done? I have the kit for jacking beam axle Land Rovers but not Freebies. I started looking at portable lifts like this one as I also have an MX-5 that may need brake or suspension work at some point. I don't have a driveway so work would be carried out in a slightly sloped parking space.
andyfreelandy
Well-Known Member
I always jack on the chassis rail sections that run the length of the vehicle about 6 inches behind the sill.
Use a block of wood on the top to prevent damage.
Jacking on subframe with wood protection would also work. Pick a spot near to the suspension mounting.
Use a block of wood on the top to prevent damage.
Jacking on subframe with wood protection would also work. Pick a spot near to the suspension mounting.
