Shane2jz

New Member
So, I am newly signed up on here, but have been a lurker for a few years and have had some great info, so many thanks for that!

A few months back I bought a 04 TD4 with a known fault. The seller said it was a poor starter and had been for years. When runs it sounds and pulls fine, but it takes quite a bit of cranking and eventually fires upon a couple and then picks up on all 4,blows a bit of white unburnt fuel smoke and then will be fine, until next time you come to start it. Almost like its losing fuel from the system and takes the cranking to re-prime.

My code reader tells me there are no codes stored, but sadly doesnt give me fuel pressures.

Rear LP pump and filter changed
Wiring to HP pressure sensor sorted
Initially a replacement o ring on the FPR, and then a brand new FPR as I convinced myself this was the issue. On the sense pin of the HP FP sensor I have about 0.5v at ign on, 1.25v idle, but 3V at 3k rpm, this led me to the fpr, but no different now changed.

I did a leak off test on the injectors too, and although not brilliant, by no means did I suspect this was the issue, none of them are chucking out loads of fuel and more or less the same. I have had number one injector out as needed one for my wife's car as one of hers was really heavily leaking off. Subsequently stripped and cleaned this in an ultrasonic bath and put it in mine and this injector is the one now with least leak off. Incidentally, I should add that her's started fine even with this injector in, but ran quite lumpy, the nozzle was down to about 2 and a bit jets when tested before cleaning.

Would welcome any suggestions or what to look at next. I do have a scope and know how to use it, I should also mention I have scoped the feed to the FPR and that looks fine. The 3v at 3000rpm is now making me feel I may have a problem with the HP pump, I hope not. I can see it has been replaced at some point already, but not recently. Also note that it has had a new starter at some point in its life,probably down to the long term fault requiring lots of cranking.
 
Did you check glow plugs first?
Thanks for the quick reply Kev. Its 24C here, and I can drive 30 miles stop, and try to restart within a minute or so and it doesn't start again. I will be honest, I bought it in winter and always assumed it was the glow plugs, but even on the hottest day and when the engine is up to temp, the problem is still there. Also, the sensor voltage is double what I have read on here that it should be, suggesting its not the glowplugs.
 
That is an odd one, I wouldnt even expect the fuel to drain back that quickly
 
I'll admit I dont have intimate knowledge of the M47. Does your code reader do live data? Not sure if INPA (which does live data) can be got to work on the FL.
How many miles has the engone done?
 
I'll admit I dont have intimate knowledge of the M47. Does your code reader do live data? Not sure if INPA (which does live data) can be got to work on the FL.
How many miles has the engone done?
I have INPA, will give it a shot. No I have several code readers and apart from one called proscan which doesnt show live date to any detail, none of them talk to the ecu. 140,000 ish
 
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I would check the live data while cranking it over. You're looking for around 10,000kpa when cranking, and around 25,000kpa at idle.
 
I would check the live data while cranking it over. You're looking for around 10,000kpa when cranking, and around 25,000kpa at idle.
Thanks, will have to try and find something that will read it better than what I have at the moment. "easyOBD11 with the proscan hard wired reader lets me have quite a bit of live data, but none of it related to fuel, the fuel section reports data not available
 
Ours does the same thing but only from time to time and can do it when it is hot or cold might do it once a week when cold and once a month when hot, because it is not all the time it is hard to get to bottom of it, I get the same white smoke but think that is just the fuel that has not burnt burning off so would be interested if you got to the bottom of it, I think it is air getting in somewhere and letting fuel back to tank or the start of the pump going but this is only my guess, I will have to try and find a bit of time to have a play
 
Ours does the same thing but only from time to time and can do it when it is hot or cold might do it once a week when cold and once a month when hot, because it is not all the time it is hard to get to bottom of it, I get the same white smoke but think that is just the fuel that has not burnt burning off so would be interested if you got to the bottom of it, I think it is air getting in somewhere and letting fuel back to tank or the start of the pump going but this is only my guess, I will have to try and find a bit of time to have a play
Thanks, I will do. I clamped the return side in the engine bay to eliminate that run and made no difference. Air getting in can be a real problem and have had many tussles with older Mercedes vans and cars, but not convinced thats the issue with mine. I did substitute the fuel pressure sensor with a pot and wound the sense leg down to a couple of volts while it was running and I got a loud clunk and it stalled. After a few moments of panic thinking it had hydraulically locked, plugged the sensor back up and it started fine. Oddly on a single occasion it caught me out and it did start almost instantly, only thing that was different that day was that it was parked at a slight angle with the engine higher than the tank, which sort of goes against the draining back theory. I also replaced both sections of rubber hose between the HP pump and the hard lines whist I had the FPR out as one of them was very squishy.
 
Thanks, I will do. I clamped the return side in the engine bay to eliminate that run and made no difference. Air getting in can be a real problem and have had many tussles with older Mercedes vans and cars, but not convinced thats the issue with mine. I did substitute the fuel pressure sensor with a pot and wound the sense leg down to a couple of volts while it was running and I got a loud clunk and it stalled. After a few moments of panic thinking it had hydraulically locked, plugged the sensor back up and it started fine. Oddly on a single occasion it caught me out and it did start almost instantly, only thing that was different that day was that it was parked at a slight angle with the engine higher than the tank, which sort of goes against the draining back theory. I also replaced both sections of rubber hose between the HP pump and the hard lines whist I had the FPR out as one of them was very squishy.
Have you tried starting it with the front jacked up? might be interesting but can not see why it would make any difference could understand it if it started with the back end higher, who knows?
 
A quick follow up to let you know its fixed...yay!

I tried to get INPA to run with no success and borrowed another coder reader from a mate who has a Jag thinking it may read the fuel pressures, but it read everything else other than the fuel pressures.

Although I had done a leak off test and was happy, obviously that wasn't conclusive. I had been watching and bagged a set of 4 Rover 75 injectors from ebay for a mere 55 quid and its 100% cured. Injectors 2 and 4 had been suffering a bit of blow by at the seals and were a pig to get out, in the end I had to resort to whipping off the solenoids on both and using the slide hammer to extract them. Re-cut the seats, and dropped the replacements in. Took a while to fire up afterwards but has since been great. Was 16c here this morning and it started instantly. I am guessing (and am no injector expert) that although the leak off looked ok that one or more of the injectors was not holding fuel when the engine wasn't running.

Been using the old girl today and all is good. Although I tried to open the passenger side window for the first time and it just whirs and click with the glass going nowhere. Will strip that tomorrow.

Thanks for the ideas/suggestions etc.
 
Th
A quick follow up to let you know its fixed...yay!

I tried to get INPA to run with no success and borrowed another coder reader from a mate who has a Jag thinking it may read the fuel pressures, but it read everything else other than the fuel pressures.

Although I had done a leak off test and was happy, obviously that wasn't conclusive. I had been watching and bagged a set of 4 Rover 75 injectors from ebay for a mere 55 quid and its 100% cured. Injectors 2 and 4 had been suffering a bit of blow by at the seals and were a pig to get out, in the end I had to resort to whipping off the solenoids on both and using the slide hammer to extract them. Re-cut the seats, and dropped the replacements in. Took a while to fire up afterwards but has since been great. Was 16c here this morning and it started instantly. I am guessing (and am no injector expert) that although the leak off looked ok that one or more of the injectors was not holding fuel when the engine wasn't running.

Been using the old girl today and all is good. Although I tried to open the passenger side window for the first time and it just whirs and click with the glass going nowhere. Will strip that tomorrow.

Thanks for the ideas/suggestions etc.
Thanks for letting us know that is interesting, for I thought my injectors are okay but like you say must have been leaking back might keep a look out for a set and try the same if ours starts to get worse great you got it sorted without breaking the bank
 

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