kanecvr

Member
Hello everyone!

I recently bought our 2nd freelander, a 2004 TD4 5 door Sport with 180k miles on it - the car was originally RHD, it came from the UK, and the previous owner had it converted to LHD at a specialist shop.

The issue I'm having with it is it won't go into 5th gear. At 110 kph it's still in 4th gear, and revs are very high.... tried to switch into 5th in manual mode at the same speed (110kph) and the instrument cluster will display 5th gear but revs stay the same. The gearbox isn't slipping and gear changes are very smooth in all other gears.

What could be wrong? Has anyone else had this issue?
 
You need a decent scan tool but I'd suggest checking the solenoid for 5th gear is actuating.

As a shot to nothing, change the ATF - if it's past it's date and it's too "thin" or if it's too hot (oil cooler problems / hot climate?) then the pressure would be too low etc etc.

Without scanning it / testing it - you're never going to know so your only other option is investigate.....
 
Ok so I finally got around to my wife's TD4 - the one mentioned in this thread. Didn't start with the gearbox, there were other things I had to fix first - namely the fuel tank support bracket was rotted out and I had to rebuild it, since a new one cost more then I'm willing to spend (at least in my country) and the ones I've found at salvage yards were barely any better.

bd.jpeg fixing.jpeg good1.jpeg

Then I replaced all the exhaust supports (the rubber ones) and the clamp holding the muffler to the exhaust since it was also rotted out and the muffler was dangling around. Since I had to remove the rear subframe to get the fuel tank out I also cleaned all the rust off said subframe and gave it a coat of feruginol (local rust removing compound), primer and high gloss black.

good 2.jpeg

Now back to the main issue - the gearbox won't go into 5th. Apart from that, I noticed after driving the car for a day that revs are very high and it shifts late into the rev range (3000-3500rpm) as if it was in sport mode, and it shifted rather violently, especially when cold. Now we have a 2nd freelander, a 2000 non facelift, also a TD4 automatic, with 370k km on it but very well maintained - that one shifts at 1500-2000 rpm when driving around town normally or 2500-3000rpm when flooring it - so the late shifting my wife's facelift is probably not ok right?

After I spoke to a friend who owns 2 TD4 non facelifts and works at a land rover indy shop, I checked the gearbox selector cable (all fine) and then warmed the car up to check gearbox oil level. He mentioned that with the gearbox oil at 35-45C, I should go trough the gears holding each for about 3 seconds, then put the car in park and with the engine running remove the overfill bolt near the selector cable bracket.

I was expecting low oil levels, especially since I found ATF dripping from the side of the transmission housing, but to my surprise oil was pouring out like it was a regular drain plug. So far I removed 1.9L of ATF and it keeps coming with a steady stream. At this point my friend said the gearbox was probably grossly overfilled with ATF (fluid looks new) witch would explain the leak at the side of the gearbox and why it would rev so high before shifting. After removing said 1.9L of oil I took the car for a test drive and surprise - it shifts correctly now! While driving slow it shifts at 1600-1700RPM, and if I press on the accelerator a bit harder it will shift at 2000-2500rpm - just like our other freelander. Gear shifts are also perfectly smooth now.

Problem is - still no 5th gear. At one point while driving the car seemed to switch into 5th (revs went down from 2500 to 2000 rpm at 80kph (50mph) and went up again a second later...

So letting ATF drain from the oil level plug definitely improved things, but I'm reluctant to drain any more... The manual says to drain from the level plug until very little to no oil comes out from it - I'm still getting a steady 3-4mm thick stream of ATF, despite draining 1.9L.... What are your thoughts? Should I continue to drain oil until little or no ATF comes from the level check plug? Could 5th not work due to overpressure in the gearbox due to too much ATF witch damaged the solenoid for 5th gear? Is there any danger in draining trough that plug until no oil comes out? I'm asking because I think whoever put ATF in this gearbox did not pay attention, saw 8.5L mentioned in the manual and put 8.5L in despite it only taking 3.5-4 when changing the oil (due to part of it being contained in the valves and torque converter)....
 
Hello. Remember to drain with the engine running.
First: leave oil level
Second: test the connections of the pineapple as indicated in this forum.
youtube]VTmdkDuKZ6A
Third: fifth solenoids (1 and 4) and maybe also the torque converter lockup (8).
For the lock to act, it depends on the speed of the vehicle and the position of the throttle valve.

upload_2022-1-25_18-28-30.png
 
Hello. Remember to drain with the engine running.

I did, the car was running and in Park. ATF temperature hovered between 32 and 48C.

First: leave oil level

Sorry, I don't exactly understand this phrasing - what do you mean by leave oil level?

Second: test the connections of the pineapple as indicated in this forum.

I take it the "pineaple" is the valve block? Is it accessible without having to take the gearbox covers off? How do I test the solenoids? Just apply 12V?

Third: fifth solenoids (1 and 4) and maybe also the torque converter lockup (8).
For the lock to act, it depends on the speed of the vehicle and the position of the throttle valve.

I drove the car back from my garage (about a 10km drive) and I now believe the car shifts into 5th - you can feel it shifting on a smooth road, particularly noticeable is downshifting from 4th to 5th - thing is there is no RPM decrease - in fact the RPMs seem to increase by 200-300rpm when it switches into 5th. The cluster clearly displays 5th when in manual mode....

Could it be that the converter lock is not engaging due to (still) too much ATF in the gearbox, causing an excess of oil pressure?

I'll try to remove more ATF from the overfill plug tomorrow, until very little or any oil comes out, then take it for another drive. If that doesn't make it lock, I'll check the "pineapple" and then proceed to remove all the ATF from the drain plug (not the overflow plug), measure how much came out, and fill the gearbox back up with 3.5 to 4L of ATF....

I was kind of hoping someone encountered this issue before and knew where I should look... I have little to no experience dealing with these cars (land rover freelaneder) - I only ever serviced and modified my BMWs witch are much easier to deal with due to their longitudinally mounted engine / transmission and F/R layout...

What I wanted to note is that I had a similar issue with my e65 7 series... the gearbox (ZF 6HP) was overfilled, and it was slipping in all gears. No check engine, and 6th gear would sometimes not lock - it would shift to 6th, revs would go down (the 730d has much longer gearing and it was clearly noticeable) but it would slip in 6th like crazy. It helps a lot that the ZF 6HP has an overfill valve on the side, something the Jatco apparently does not have. I did an oil and filter change on the car myself, cleaned out all the solenoids and the mecatronic assembly, reassembled everything and it runs like a dream - no permanent damage... I'm kind of hoping there is a similar issue here, but the more I read about these Jatco slush-boxes the more it worries me.
 
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The method to check the jatco auto oil level is on this fred:

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/jatco-automatic-gearbox.69336/page-3

With the engine running on tick over you will get a slight dribble from the jatco's level plug. When you add more oil to the filler, the dribble will increase to a flow, then reduce to a dribble once the additional oil has run out. At this point the level it correct. Fit the level plug and washer.

The auto oil level doesn't need to be absolutely perfect. Near enough is ok, by doing it using the above method.

MNkPShY.jpg

P4051811 MNkPShY

The leak from the side may be auto oil sat on top of the gearbox where the metal array of grids are. Especially the part of the auto that goes under the engine. If you over fill it by a lot then auto oil will p*ss out the air vent on the top of the auto. The air pipe is a small L shape metal pipe that sticks out the top.

If you have gear section problems then:

Makes sure the LED's next to the gearbox lever illuminate correctly, depending on the location of the gearbox lever.
Check the dash display reads correct at the same time.

To check the wiring harness follow the instruction in the video below:

resistance video = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmdkDuKZ6A
 
With the engine running on tick over you will get a slight dribble from the jatco's level plug. When you add more oil to the filler, the dribble will increase to a flow, then reduce to a dribble once the additional oil has run out. At this point the level it correct. Fit the level plug and washer.

The auto oil level doesn't need to be absolutely perfect. Near enough is ok, by doing it using the above method.

yeah that's what I did but even after removing 1.9L it's still pouring out. Guess I'll have to keep draining via the level plug until it turns into a dribble.

The leak from the side may be auto oil sat on top of the gearbox where the metal array of grids are. Especially the part of the auto that goes under the engine. If you over fill it by a lot then auto oil will p*ss out the air vent on the top of the auto. The air pipe is a small L shape metal pipe that sticks out the top.

That was my guess as well, since the gearbox is grossly overfilled.

If you have gear section problems then:

Makes sure the LED's next to the gearbox lever illuminate correctly, depending on the location of the gearbox lever.
Check the dash display reads correct at the same time.

To check the wiring harness follow the instruction in the video below:

resistance video = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmdkDuKZ6A

No gear selection trouble. The car seems to go trough all gears - selecting gears is not an issue. The problem is 5th. In Drive it's like there is no 5th gear - I get ~2400RPM at 80kph, ~2800 at 100kph, and so on, like 5th is missing. When I switch to manual mode, selecting 5th over 80kph will either slightly increase RPM instead of decreasing due to a gear change or no reaction whatsoever, despite the cluster saying the car is in 5th gear. When I downshift back into 4th there's a tiny "push" that feels like a gear change but no change in rpm. It feels like 5th is slipping badly or just won't engage. From my understanding in 5th the converter is supposed to lock, giving a fixed 1:1 ratio - that doesn't happen. I tried to make a video but it came out very shaky. I'll try again tomorrow and post the video here (although I hope getting the proper level of transmission fluid will fix the issue)
 
The torque convertor locks up in 4th and 5th gear, under normal conditions. If the gear box (and it's oil) is too hot then there's an option for the torque convertor to not lock up. This can happen if the temp sensor is reading incorrectly. Temp sensor is one of the checks in the resistance video above. Also the resistance loop on the solenoid controlling the torque convertor. If it's open circuit then it has no control to lock it.
 
The torque convertor locks up in 4th and 5th gear, under normal conditions. If the gear box (and it's oil) is too hot then there's an option for the torque convertor to not lock up. This can happen if the temp sensor is reading incorrectly. Temp sensor is one of the checks in the resistance video above. Also the resistance loop on the solenoid controlling the torque convertor. If it's open circuit then it has no control to lock it.

Thank you for your help, I'll watch the video and do the checks when I get to the garage.
 
Here is something:

That might help with the readings and that you know which one is which one on the first pic.
 

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Ok, I believe I've found the cause of the problem:

selector switch.png


According to the manual and several other sources, the only condition that would make 5th gear inoperable as described in the first post (car will not engage 5th) is a faulty selector switch. I'll attempt to replace the selector switch from my wife's freelander S with a known working unit from our nfl TD4. It no longer needs it because the torque converter failed and I converted the car to manual transmission.

I'll report back if replacing the selector / inhibitor switch cured the problem.

Here is something:

That might help with the readings and that you know which one is which one on the first pic.

Thank you, these files helped a lot. The gearbox seems fine, all values are within spec and I have no errors stored in the transmission computer. That only leaves the above mentioned selector switch... If that's not the problem I'm removing the garbox and checking the clutch plates.
 
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How would the selecter swich stop it going into 5th when Drive is selected?

I thought maybe the selector switch incorrectly read position "4" instead of "D" or was reading in between the two - happened to a friend of mine. Anyway, I replaced the selector with one off my NFL TD4 witch i swapped to a manual transmission and it did not solve my problem. Still no 5th gear.

Back in April I tried reading codes but no scanner would connect to the car. This morning I took the landy out of the garage where it's been sitting for 5 months, gave her a wash and started messing with the OBD plug. Turns out a couple of wires were broken off. I soldered them on and managed to get codes YEY!!!

Error Code P0735: Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio

Not something that would make anyone happy.... The gearbox is correctly filled with fresh Land Rover ATF - did it back in april, so I'm guessing I have a bad solenoid valve (or the valve body is stuffed up with gunk?)... If I clear the code, the car will try to shift into 5th, but instead of revs dropping they will increase by 150-200rpm then come back to where they were in 4th. I take it one of the solenoids responsible for shifting into 5th is kaputt - so this is were I stand.

Now if you guys could kindly help out by clearing up a few things I might actually be able to fix this landy:
1. Can I get to the valve body without lowering the engine?
2. Witch solenoids are responsible for selecting 5th?
3. I have another TD4 gearbox off my NFL TD4, this one will not lock up the converter in 4th or 5th but will shift just fine - should I try to take the whole valve body off it and install it into the gearbox in my HSE or attempt to replace only the solenoids responsible for 5th?

Thanks in advance!
 
Your resistance values all look ok. I'm wondering if the solenoid is stuck, or the connector contacts are bad and the ECU cannot drive the solenoid ?
 
Your resistance values all look ok. I'm wondering if the solenoid is stuck, or the connector contacts are bad and the ECU cannot drive the solenoid ?
Anything is possible. I got to the garage an hour ago and started working on the powertrain I pulled off the non facelift L314. Sadly I managed to break the transmission cooler while attempting to remove it - the bloody lines are rusted in place....

Here's a pic of the valve body:
WhatsApp Image 2022-09-19 at 5.38.19 PM.jpeg


A real beaute isn't she? I'm taking a smoke break then removing it so I can transplant it into the HSE TD4. I'll keep you guys posted.
 
Ok I'm done for today. Don't know if I'm going to be able to do any work tomorrow but I'll finish it this week and post pictures.

So far i managed to drain the fluid out of the other gearbox - it looked... not horrible, brown(ish)-clear, and there was no glitter or particulate matter in it. Smelled a bit odd tough. I pulled the valve body off, then I had a tough. It's way easier to replace the solenoids. According to the diagram @freespaña posted above, solenoids 1 and 4 are responsible for selecting 5th, so I'll try to only replace those instead of pulling off the whole valve body which is considerably more work since it's pretty cramped under there.

WhatsApp Image 2022-09-19 at 7.20.31 PM.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2022-09-19 at 7.20.28 PM.jpeg


I also want to order more tranny fluid. The one in the car is brand new, but I'm not sure removing it then putting it back in is a good ideea.
 

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