S

Srtgray

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #1

Hi all,

I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a
pair in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them
for some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort
when at vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really
can't be any bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair
could get larger.

TIA,
Stuart

 

W

William Black

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #2

"Srtgray" <srtgrayNOT@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1161596385.27646.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> Hi all,
>
> I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
> 50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a pair
> in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
> centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
> loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
> suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them for
> some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort when at
> vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really can't be any
> bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair could get
> larger.

What a 'watt' is varies depending on who you're taliking to, however...

Assuming your speakers are rated in the same way as your head then your
speakers need upgrading.

Speaker capacity is a function of the coil and magnet construction and not
really much to do with the amount of air they can displace.

You just need bigger cones to shift the air the heavier coil/magnet set can
shift without breaking.

Normal practice in the music business is to have a speaker system that is
aproximatly double amplifier power.

Your system pushes out 200 watts...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

 

R

rads

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #3

On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:38:57 +0200, Srtgray <srtgrayNOT@clara.co.uk>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
>50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a
>pair in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
>centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
>loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
>suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them
>for some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort
>when at vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really
>can't be any bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair
>could get larger.
>
>TIA,
>Stuart

Don't think fitting bigger wattage speakers will necessary make it
louder.

AFAIR the wattage of speakers determines how much power they will
handle before going splat, not how loud they are. Some speakers have
different sensitivities, which can influence loudness but I think the
major factor in determining how loud a system sounds is how much power
the amp (head unit) is putting out.

Having said that, larger wattage speakers will (probably) not distort
at high amps settings (providing it is not the amp distorting,
shouldn't be), and 4x50 should really be enough, unless your very
young and your 110 is fitted with blue glowing washer jets.

David

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #4

In message <ehi3qf$dpn$1@news.freedom2surf.net>
"William Black" <william_black@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> "Srtgray" <srtgrayNOT@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1161596385.27646.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
> > 50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a pair
> > in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
> > centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
> > loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
> > suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them for
> > some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort when at
> > vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really can't be any
> > bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair could get
> > larger.
>
> What a 'watt' is varies depending on who you're taliking to, however...
>
> Assuming your speakers are rated in the same way as your head then your
> speakers need upgrading.
>
> Speaker capacity is a function of the coil and magnet construction and not
> really much to do with the amount of air they can displace.
>
> You just need bigger cones to shift the air the heavier coil/magnet set can
> shift without breaking.
>
> Normal practice in the music business is to have a speaker system that is
> aproximatly double amplifier power.
>
> Your system pushes out 200 watts...
>

Not forgetting the effect of the enclosure design - a speaker not
in a cabinet makes bugger-all noise.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #5

William Black wrote:
>
> Normal practice in the music business is to have a speaker system that is
> aproximatly double amplifier power.
>
> Your system pushes out 200 watts...

The head unit is unlikely to be rated as RMS watts, and even if it is,
it'll either start clipping or the THD figure will be stupid anywhere
much above half power.

Add an amp and it should sound a lot better.



--
EMB

 

W

werdan

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #6

"Srtgray" <srtgrayNOT@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1161596385.27646.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> Hi all,
>
> I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
> 50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a pair
> in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
> centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
> loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
> suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them for
> some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort when at
> vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really can't be any
> bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair could get
> larger.
>

Running 120W speakers cranked at full volume (50W) will cause clipping,
i.e.. the waveform distorts to a square wave. This is basically a DC voltage
that will heat up and burn out the coils in the speakers. You either need to
look at getting the 120w speakers with a matching amp, installing a
sub-woofer in a box with a dedicated amp (for better base) or try sealing up
around the doors for better road noise reduction (lol!).

How did you run the cable to the rear speakers? I've just bought some new
rears myself and am trying to figure out the best way to run the cabling in
my Defender Xtreme. The rear floor mat doesn't look contusive to running
cables under so I'm thinking either under the car (yuck) or up the b-pillar,
over the top of the backseat doors (behind the trim) and down the c-pillar
(ouch).

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #7

On or around Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:39:22 +1300, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com>
enlightened us thusly:

>William Black wrote:
>>
>> Normal practice in the music business is to have a speaker system that is
>> aproximatly double amplifier power.
>>
>> Your system pushes out 200 watts...
>
>The head unit is unlikely to be rated as RMS watts, and even if it is,
>it'll either start clipping or the THD figure will be stupid anywhere
>much above half power.
>
>Add an amp and it should sound a lot better.

It's been my observation that ghetto blasters and car stereos are almost
always rated at peak output, so they can write "300W" on the box in large
letters.

My home stereo is 30W RMS and at 70% volume through a pair of JPW
mini-monitors is too loud to stay in the same room with.

The RMS output of a 200W peak system is probably about 10W... You can
verify this rather simply by considering the input power fuse... most car
stereo head units run on a 3A or 5A fuse. At a nominal 12V, a 5A fuse will
deliver 60W longterm without blowing (in fact, it'll probably do a bit more)
but even if all those watts are made into sound with no losses at all (which
is highly unlikely), you don't get 200W.

's advertising, dont'cha know.

ditto the speakers, of course, unless they're really good ones.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Festina Lente" (Hasten slowly) Suetonius (c.70-c.140) Augustus, 25

 

G

GbH

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #8

Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Mon, 23 Oct 2006 23:39:22 +1300, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> William Black wrote:
>>>
>>> Normal practice in the music business is to have a speaker system
>>> that is aproximatly double amplifier power.
>>>
>>> Your system pushes out 200 watts...
>>
>> The head unit is unlikely to be rated as RMS watts, and even if it
>> is, it'll either start clipping or the THD figure will be stupid
>> anywhere much above half power.
>>
>> Add an amp and it should sound a lot better.
>
> It's been my observation that ghetto blasters and car stereos are
> almost always rated at peak output, so they can write "300W" on the
> box in large letters.
>
> My home stereo is 30W RMS and at 70% volume through a pair of JPW
> mini-monitors is too loud to stay in the same room with.
>
> The RMS output of a 200W peak system is probably about 10W... You can
> verify this rather simply by considering the input power fuse... most
> car stereo head units run on a 3A or 5A fuse. At a nominal 12V, a 5A
> fuse will deliver 60W longterm without blowing (in fact, it'll
> probably do a bit more) but even if all those watts are made into
> sound with no losses at all (which is highly unlikely), you don't get
> 200W.
>
> 's advertising, dont'cha know.
>
> ditto the speakers, of course, unless they're really good ones.


I purchased a pair of powered speakers for on here t'other day, box says:
True Sound P.M.P.O.: 260W spec says (also on box but in liddler letters) Output
rms: 6 Watt, reconciling those two values is rather difficult, if not impossible.

IIRC PMPO translates to Peak Music Power Output. It is supposed to be the peak
possible output voltage multiplied by the peak possible output current, then
multiplied by 4, because of course music ihas both positive and negative
excursions, then probably by a further 2 because it is stereo. Unfortunately in
order to relate the volts and amps you need another bit of information which they
have conveniently neglected to tell us, namely the speaker impedence, or more
likely in their calculation resistance. If some clever *** with too much time on
their hands does the sum equating the two unrelated powers, the answer will be the
impedence, which tends to be uselessly high in these small speakers.



--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

 

R

Ralph A. Schmid, DK5RAS

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #9

Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

>My home stereo is 30W RMS and at 70% volume through a pair of JPW
>mini-monitors is too loud to stay in the same room with.

My old fashioned amplifier with tubes gives 2*20W or something like
that, and this was enough to deliver the spound for several parties.
It throws out true 20W per channel, and with high quality even at high
power, this does the trick

Ralph.

 

B

Bob Hobden

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #10

"Srtgray" wrote
> I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
> 50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a pair
> in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
> centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
> loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
> suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them for
> some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort when at
> vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really can't be any
> bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair could get
> larger.
>

I'm of the "crap in crap out" hi-fi camp so if you want quality hi-fi
(actually impossible in such a small space) then look to the best quality
head you can afford and then the best quality Amp (quality, not loudest/most
powerful), worry about the speakers last of all.**
You want the Amp just ticking over at normal volume.

I've heard a full blown Linn system driving a couple of cheap £100. speakers
and the music sounded amazing, a cheap front end linked to a couple of Linn
speakers wouldn't.

Personally I never have any noise in my vehicles other than mechanical (or
the Missus).
--
Regards
Bob H
17mls W. of London.UK

 

D

Derek

Guest

• Oct 23, 2006

• #11

"Srtgray" <srtgrayNOT@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1161596385.27646.0@damia.uk.clara.net...
> Hi all,
>
> I have a shiny new (to me) MiniDisk player/headunit in my 110, rated at
> 50Wx4. I have a pair of speakers in the front, rated 50W max, and a pair
> in the back ay 80W max. All speakers are about 5" across, with a
> centrally mounted tweeter. So far so good, except the the sound isn't
> loud enough. Is this just a function of the size of the speaker (as I
> suspect, ie they simply can't shift enough air), or should I swap them for
> some the same size but rated at say, 120W? They currently distort when at
> vull volume, although not hideously. The front pair really can't be any
> bigger and still fit in the same place, but the rear pair could get
> larger.
>
> TIA,
> Stuart

Its just that some speakers are far more efficient than others if you check
the specs most usually quote the SPL for one watt input each additional 3dB
( thats the minimum noticable increase in sound) in theory needs a doubling
of power to produce it so if you really want your ears to bleed its either
high efficiency speakers or put the output through a big amplifier. One
other thing to be wary of is when you get past the speakers handling
capability you run into to clipping when the sound degrades just turn a
little tranny on full for the effect or listen to Chris Evans either way
it is very annoying .
Derek