Mike Romain wrote:
> Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are
> comparing the performance as
> 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they
> do all these mods, I
> would just get the Jeep.....
=================================
Mike,

You really should read more carefully. Nobody on
this thread (except you) said anything about
'almost' keeping up with the jeep. The Dirt Weasel
has suggested his 1.3L SUMO rig will blow the jeep
away. If you look at the comparisons of 'stock'
CJ7 and these Sami's, many factors (e.g. ground
clearance), it is the Jeep that will be found
lacking. You are paying a huge penalty in weight
(not to mention your wallet).
=================================
> A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go
> damn near anywhere. The
> 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing
> low end torque.
=================================
I don't think low end torque is a problem in the
Sami's. Even my wimpy little stock 1.3L has
plenty. It's just lacking the performance I want
on the highway.
=================================
> It also has a 'bunch' more room for parts if
you > are the chase vehicle.
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
> to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> <SNIP>
=================================
You may have a point about the extra room aspect.
I'd be interested in a quantification, but I don't
believe it will be an increase of more that a few
percentage points. However, if that's important,
it should not be ignored.

Be Well,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

Ahh... OK, I just saw folks saying the modified engine ones could keep
up to a Jeep 6 and you got better articulation using Jeep springs, and
you had to lift to run 31's, etc....

A Sami is a nice toy though, they are impressive off road when built
right.

The cargo space in my 86 CJ7 is as follows: With the rear seat out or
folded and tumbled forward, I have a 3'x3'x1' well and then on top of
the wheels, a 4'x4'x3' area with the top in place. This gives 9 cubic
feet in the well and 36 cubic feet in the box for a rear total of 45
cubic feet. CJ's also have a fold down tail gate.

I can load this full with the hard top on or full using a cargo net with
the soft top on.

It also has a GVW of 4400 lb and can 'safely' tow a 2000 lb trailer.

I also get 11L/100 km gas mileage or 23 US mpg which I am sure is lower
than a Sami.

Mike

Jack Daynes wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Well, seeing as all these Sami owners are
> > comparing the performance as
> > 'almost' able to keep up with a Jeep after they
> > do all these mods, I
> > would just get the Jeep.....
> =================================
> Mike,
>
> You really should read more carefully. Nobody on
> this thread (except you) said anything about
> 'almost' keeping up with the jeep. The Dirt Weasel
> has suggested his 1.3L SUMO rig will blow the jeep
> away. If you look at the comparisons of 'stock'
> CJ7 and these Sami's, many factors (e.g. ground
> clearance), it is the Jeep that will be found
> lacking. You are paying a huge penalty in weight
> (not to mention your wallet).
> =================================
> > A stock CJ7 will already fit 31" tires and go
> > damn near anywhere. The
> > 4.2 engine is almost bullet proof with amazing
> > low end torque.
> =================================
> I don't think low end torque is a problem in the
> Sami's. Even my wimpy little stock 1.3L has
> plenty. It's just lacking the performance I want
> on the highway.
> =================================
> > It also has a 'bunch' more room for parts if
> you > are the chase vehicle.
> >
> > Just my $0.02,
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose
> > to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > <SNIP>
> =================================
> You may have a point about the extra room aspect.
> I'd be interested in a quantification, but I don't
> believe it will be an increase of more that a few
> percentage points. However, if that's important,
> it should not be ignored.
>
> Be Well,
> --
> -- Jack --
> =================================
> Everything you see is temporary.
> =================================
> Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> =================================
> Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
> At 508' Elevation
> =================================

Hello Mike (read on below ... )

=================================

Mike Romain wrote:

> Ahh... OK, I just saw folks saying the modified engine ones could keep
> up to a Jeep 6 and you got better articulation using Jeep springs, and
> you had to lift to run 31's, etc....
>
> A Sami is a nice toy though, they are impressive off road when built
> right.
>
> The cargo space in my 86 CJ7 is as follows: With the rear seat out or
> folded and tumbled forward, I have a 3'x3'x1' well and then on top of
> the wheels, a 4'x4'x3' area with the top in place. This gives 9 cubic
> feet in the well and 36 cubic feet in the box for a rear total of 45
> cubic feet.
=================================
I just took some measurements on my Sami. They are
as follows (all behind passenger area and rear
bench removed):

Space between wheel wells is (in feet)
2.5 (front to back)
3 (side to side)
..75 (floor to top of wheel wells)
(5.625 cu.ft.)

Space over this section is
4 (side to side)
2.5 (front to back)
2.75 (top of wheel well to top of inside shell)
(27.5 cu.ft.)
Total: 33.125 cu. ft.

Your jeep space is bigger by 11.875 or about 36%
=================================
> CJ's also have a fold down tail gate.
=================================
Can't do this with the Sami.
=================================
> I can load this full with the hard top on or full using a cargo net with
> the soft top on.
>
> It also has a GVW of 4400 lb and can 'safely' tow a 2000 lb trailer.
=================================
The quotes around the word 'safely' are quite
appropriate. With our mutually short wheel bases,
neither of us have a good rig for towing. ;-)
A stock 88 Sami is under 2100 lb. I haven't
weighed my setup (since my mods), but I believe
I'm in the 2500~2600 lb range. Of coarse, both
figures (yours AND mine) will vary with what we're
packing with us.
=================================
> I also get 11L/100 km gas mileage or 23 US mpg which I am sure is lower
> than a Sami.
=================================
That varies with WHO'S foot is on the peddle ;-)
=================================
>
> Mike
>
<SNIP>
=================================
Be well and have fun,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================

That makes sense, I figured about a 35% difference in size.

Is it the same for towing? You are so right about the short wheel bases
and towing. A Jeeper friend just got a sweet trailer, a Boler camper
that weighs in at 900 lb 'fully equipped'.
http://www.geocities.com/bolerama/

He wants to put CJ springs on that so it follows....

Mine is 'glass nose to tail and I really want to get it on a scale.
Stock, my CJ7 is supposed to weigh in around 3100 lb or so but I figure
I am closer to your 21-2500 lb.

Makes for a mean power to weight ratio. My 258 straight 6 goes
like a scalded cat. It will pull fast up to 55 mph turning 4400 rpm in
2nd and hit 80+ in 3rd. 4th buries the speedo and I have no freaking
urge to see what 5th will pull to. (my spedo is GPS calibrated right on
too.)

Mike

Jack Daynes wrote:
>
> Hello Mike (read on below ... )
>
> =================================
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> > Ahh... OK, I just saw folks saying the modified engine ones could keep
> > up to a Jeep 6 and you got better articulation using Jeep springs, and
> > you had to lift to run 31's, etc....
> >
> > A Sami is a nice toy though, they are impressive off road when built
> > right.
> >
> > The cargo space in my 86 CJ7 is as follows: With the rear seat out or
> > folded and tumbled forward, I have a 3'x3'x1' well and then on top of
> > the wheels, a 4'x4'x3' area with the top in place. This gives 9 cubic
> > feet in the well and 36 cubic feet in the box for a rear total of 45
> > cubic feet.
> =================================
> I just took some measurements on my Sami. They are
> as follows (all behind passenger area and rear
> bench removed):
>
> Space between wheel wells is (in feet)
> 2.5 (front to back)
> 3 (side to side)
> .75 (floor to top of wheel wells)
> (5.625 cu.ft.)
>
> Space over this section is
> 4 (side to side)
> 2.5 (front to back)
> 2.75 (top of wheel well to top of inside shell)
> (27.5 cu.ft.)
> Total: 33.125 cu. ft.
>
> Your jeep space is bigger by 11.875 or about 36%
> =================================
> > CJ's also have a fold down tail gate.
> =================================
> Can't do this with the Sami.
> =================================
> > I can load this full with the hard top on or full using a cargo net with
> > the soft top on.
> >
> > It also has a GVW of 4400 lb and can 'safely' tow a 2000 lb trailer.
> =================================
> The quotes around the word 'safely' are quite
> appropriate. With our mutually short wheel bases,
> neither of us have a good rig for towing. ;-)
> A stock 88 Sami is under 2100 lb. I haven't
> weighed my setup (since my mods), but I believe
> I'm in the 2500~2600 lb range. Of coarse, both
> figures (yours AND mine) will vary with what we're
> packing with us.
> =================================
> > I also get 11L/100 km gas mileage or 23 US mpg which I am sure is lower
> > than a Sami.
> =================================
> That varies with WHO'S foot is on the peddle ;-)
> =================================
> >
> > Mike
> >
> <SNIP>
> =================================
> Be well and have fun,
> --
> -- Jack --
> =================================
> Everything you see is temporary.
> =================================
> Clean Up Return Address To Reply
> =================================
> Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
> N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
> At 508' Elevation
> =================================

Mike Romain wrote:
> That makes sense, I figured about a 35% difference in size.
>
> Is it the same for towing? You are so right about the short wheel bases
> and towing. A Jeeper friend just got a sweet trailer, a Boler camper
> that weighs in at 900 lb 'fully equipped'.
> http://www.geocities.com/bolerama/
>
> He wants to put CJ springs on that so it follows....
=================================
Did you say trailers!?
Have you looked into these? <http://tentrax.com/>
I'm intrigued by this one. (At 450~600 lb, it's
light. With all that ground clearance (up to 19")
it should handle some serious trails.

or these: <http://www.adventuretrailers.com/>

or even these:
<http://www.jayco.com/html/catalog/product.php?prod_id=52>
=================================
> Mine is 'glass nose to tail and I really want to get it on a scale.
> Stock, my CJ7 is supposed to weigh in around 3100 lb or so but I figure
> I am closer to your 21-2500 lb.
=================================
Hmmm ... I'm feeling like a Missourian on this one
;-) Keep in mind that my Zuk's 1.3L engine weighs
in at just about 100 lb.

If you *DO* get her on a scale, I'd be interested
in the 'tale of the tape' (so to speak).
=================================
> Makes for a mean power to weight ratio. My 258 straight 6 goes
> like a scalded cat. It will pull fast up to 55 mph turning 4400 rpm in
> 2nd and hit 80+ in 3rd. 4th buries the speedo and I have no freaking
> urge to see what 5th will pull to. (my spedo is GPS calibrated right on
> too.)
>
> Mike
><SNIP>
=================================
I'm with you on this need to see speed story. It's
not my mission to set records or be the fastest.
There will always be those that are willing to
take more chances than me. I feel it's analogous
to the trucker who said "You can go down MANY
hills too slow, but you will only go down ONE too
fast!"

btw: my speedo is about 11% slow, so my GPS is all
I trust in this regard.

Take care,
--
-- Jack --
=================================
Everything you see is temporary.
=================================
Clean Up Return Address To Reply
=================================
Poway, California (San Diego Co.)
N 32° 57' W 117° 04'
At 508' Elevation
=================================