Hello everyone!

Well, I reached again the point where I have to make a decision: do I keep her or not. Last time, I was very much leaning into selling, and didn't, this time I am very much leaning into keeping. As opposed to last time, I want to make it, please don't laugh, rational decision.

Do, why again consider selling / replacing? She wasn't used at all this year, barely last year, is one year beyond MOT and needs some repairs, engine timing urgently and the exterior mid term at best to maintain the classification as a classic car. Without that, she would be unaffordable due to insurance and especially taxes. All in all, I think I am looking at around 3-4 k, somewhere between 1-2 to get the timing right, including hauling her to the garage, and the rest for a proper body job and some minor bits and pieces. For various reasons, disposable cash is a bit short right now, I am at no hurry, so this is not a critical aspect.

The critical questions are this so: why do I have her? Actually, to go to olaces ypu cannot go with a 4x4, Iceland, Tunesia... She is not a collection piece, she is 42 years old so. Overall, the state is ok to good (good from a technical POV, except the engine timing and a replacement diff that just needs to be installed, okish from a classic vehicle appraisal POV, no major rust issues). For the next years, if it works out, there are two trips planned: Iceland and, again, Tunesia. The latter is close to certain, the former requires some tricky logistics.

Once the engine is fixed, I don't worry about that. Neither about the axles and diffs, and if those break, well, bits are not ruinously expensive. Overall so, I wonder if those two trips are not a bit much for her, because if she needs a major overhaul after those, these trips will be expensive indeed. So, what could break or wear out, generally speaking, during those trips?

My main worry so is the gear box. She had a replacement one when I bought her (have to check age of the replacement one), as the original one broke. She was used as towing vehicle previously, and also the replacement one was used for heavy towing. As in she is rated to tow 6.5 tons and was used to tow boats across the alps. The gearbox being a LT95 long stick, well, replacements are hard to come by and prohibitively expensive. If the gearbox goes, for me the car is a write off. Unless, of course, one can comparatively easily, fit another gearbox. Or repair the LT95.

Anyone has any experience with that? Because if the gearbox is the weak link for the intended use (offroad trips, some offroading during pay and play days) and expensive to replace / repair, as much as I hate it, replacing the car with another one might be a "reasonable" decision.

Any thoughts?

You seem to worry about what might happen especially in regards to the gearbox.

Value depends a lot on condition. In UK roadworthy examples are anywhere from £10k-£15 upwards. In good condition £30 upwards.

Body & chassis probably decide whether the rest is worth doing.

Timing is a DIY job in my opinion. Is an EFI, or old carb version ?

There's loads of LT95 gearboxes on eBay. Refurbing a manual box is much easier than an auto. Years ago I refurbed a few Ford & Mini boxes. The LT95 can't be that different. I assume there's companies like Ashcroft Transmissions in Germany, but def worth a call to Ashcroft for advice. They show refurbished LT77 for £645 plus VAT & shipping (you could prob claim the VAT back).

It's an old dual carb one. Chassis has close to no rust, there some surface one and one spot on the right rock slider, nothing serious. The body needs some love, no rust, but pretty beat up. And a paint job wouldn't hurt neither.

Two, or so, years ago I investigated refurbished / refurbishing LT95s. Feedback was from Ashcroft "we don't do LT95s" and from some specialized shops "we don't get parts anymore". So, basically obsolete.

As I have to get the engine done, and some basic body work, anyway before she can be realistically sold, I'll have a chat with the mechanic. Since replacement LT95s are out, it seems, the question is how long the one I have will hold, and how much effort it wpuld be to fit a later 5 speed one...

My problem is, I don't want a new project car, had that. And within budget, well, a suitable replacement, regardless of brand or model, is hard to come by that doesn't require work. And since I got spoiled with the V8, before the timing issues, I am certainly not going with anything below 100 hp. Surprising how many older 4x4s are between 75 and 90 hp!

Well, we'll see how much the timining issue will cost. Then some basic body and paint work, and then, well... I'll propably keep her. Defenders in good state and with some decent power are prohibitively expensive (who buys all of those???) or project cars. Swapping for another RRC doesn't make any sense, Discoverys are almost the same, rust and project cars or, barely, affordable. The Engines are ok so.

And other brands, well, Land Cruisers are not my cup of tea, not speak about spare part costs in ky kneck of the woods. Nissan Patrols are almost all under-powered, too new or too expensive. Pajeros are a theoretical option, the V6 patrol.

Which leaves one of my teens dream cars, a G Wagon. But again, mostly underpowered, in a bad shape, rusty and expensive. And being a Mercedes, expesive in maintenance. Some would theoretically fit so.

Biggest problem, I don't really want to leave Land Rover for some massochistic reasons!

The Classics - esp the early ones & the V8 - are basically Big Boy's Meccano sets.
If something has been factory fitted to one then it shouldn't be much of an issue being able to find the necessary bits & pieces to retrofit that to an earlier one without the need to have specialised kits.

They quite dirty meccano sets so! Worst case I can imagine: find a 5-speed RRC gear box and transfer case (easy enough), exchange for the, by then broken, LT95, replace the prop shafts (easy and cheap enough). The trickiest bit would be to fit a new center consol, or modify the old one. That's "just" some metal bending, cutting and welding so.

Look for one that's being dismantled & get the complete gearbox/transfer box assy incl bellhousing, drive shafts & chassis mounts.
I'd suggest the clutch assy incl flywheel & starter motor so you've got the whole lot.
Preferably with all the bolts.
Isn't the LT95 transmission tunnel bolt in? Get the transmission tunnel from the one that's being dismantled & use that in yours - appreciate you'll likely need to have it welded in.
I don't know what the rules are in Germany but here I'd be looking for a complete one with extensive corrosion & swapping the bits. That way you've got everything you need in one lump, plus you can reference where it all goes & then have the scrapman collect the remains.

So that's why my transmission tunnel is welded in... Maybe I am just panicking, and having one of my bouts of wanting new shinney stuff or projects. After all, the LT95 is considered to be bomb proof, right?

Either way, after quickly checking on Ashcroft, even the LT77 gets obsolete, or rather spare parts. Ashcroft recommends using the R380. Which would always be an alternative anyway.

I guess my main pain point regarding my old lady is no real pain point at all. And man, a simple prop shaft for a G Wagon can set one back by 1k!!!! On a RRC I get a new one for a hundred bucks and can install it myself!

or you can simply replace the UJ's for a lot less ?

Yes, also an option! I have the goods ones lying around, just in case!

Worst case so, if you break a prop shaft, it is not the end of the world neither!

hef19898 said:

It's an old dual carb one. Chassis has close to no rust, there some surface one and one spot on the right rock slider, nothing serious. The body needs some love, no rust, but pretty beat up. And a paint job wouldn't hurt neither.

Two, or so, years ago I investigated refurbished / refurbishing LT95s. Feedback was from Ashcroft "we don't do LT95s" and from some specialized shops "we don't get parts anymore". So, basically obsolete.

As I have to get the engine done, and some basic body work, anyway before she can be realistically sold, I'll have a chat with the mechanic. Since replacement LT95s are out, it seems, the question is how long the one I have will hold, and how much effort it wpuld be to fit a later 5 speed one...

My problem is, I don't want a new project car, had that. And within budget, well, a suitable replacement, regardless of brand or model, is hard to come by that doesn't require work. And since I got spoiled with the V8, before the timing issues, I am certainly not going with anything below 100 hp. Surprising how many older 4x4s are between 75 and 90 hp!

Well, we'll see how much the timining issue will cost. Then some basic body and paint work, and then, well... I'll propably keep her. Defenders in good state and with some decent power are prohibitively expensive (who buys all of those???) or project cars. Swapping for another RRC doesn't make any sense, Discoverys are almost the same, rust and project cars or, barely, affordable. The Engines are ok so.

And other brands, well, Land Cruisers are not my cup of tea, not speak about spare part costs in ky kneck of the woods. Nissan Patrols are almost all under-powered, too new or too expensive. Pajeros are a theoretical option, the V6 patrol.

Which leaves one of my teens dream cars, a G Wagon. But again, mostly underpowered, in a bad shape, rusty and expensive. And being a Mercedes, expesive in maintenance. Some would theoretically fit so.

Biggest problem, I don't really want to leave Land Rover for some massochistic reasons!

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I don't think a G63 would be underpowered, expensive yes.

A G63 would be actually over-powered! All those old G300Ds with 88 hp so... A G230 would be ok, or a G300D turbo. Those are almost affordable. But spare parts and maintenance, no thank you.

i always regret getting rid of my old classic,

Yeah, my feeling as well. Sometimes I get just sooo frustrated... But then I think it through: I sell, get some money, don't have a 4x4, spend money on a new classic 4x4, start car project again from scratch, get frustrated again later with the other car, rinse and repeat. And everytime I sell one, I just know I'll regret it. So, why even bother? Unless, of course, there are some serious reasons, major repairs or whatnot, to be seen on the horizon and one has to dodge a financial bullet. Doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

Well, I did investigate the G Wagon route a bit (seems I had more time at my hands than I thought, time I wasted on day dreaming ):

Choice comes down, for me, to a W460/1, the old, rather barebone models from 70/80s and the commercial and military ones from the 90s. The luxury versions just screem rich city dweller or dentist going hunting once per month. Ex military ones are bare bone, but a good basis to work on. Assuming you get a good condition one, ehich basically excludes everything except former Austrian or, preferably, Swiss army. The German ones, well, either expensive part carriers or you need three in hopes to get one good one (the German army sucks at maintenance, and all the not scrap worthy ones are already sold). Also, ex military ones tend to be low power NA diesels, the Seiss and Austrian ones are 230 petrol with 120 hp. Those set you bavk arpind 10-12k for the car alone, without any necessary work or parts.

Thr commercial alternatives, well, those are exhausted after decades of commercial use and need some major maintenance, costly, and cost at least 10k.

Both would need sound dampening (cheap enough) and new seats (okish pricewise) to become long distance cars. At least.

Which leaves the odd privately sold car with all the work done, I found one with a 177 hp diesel and a camper build out in the back for 16k. Needs some rather significant rust work on the body and chassis so.

So far, doable as a project. But then you have a car that screams rich European wherever you go, one could say snob on vacation. You risk having it look like a tank on a combat mission or extreme expedition, which I think is rather pathetic. Done right, you end up with a nice looking car so.

Which brings me to maintenance and spares: parts are expensive, and you have the same issues finding mechanics as you do for an old Land Rover aroubd here, Mercedes itself is even more expensive than JLR. You have an easier time for the engines so, most of the G Wagon engines are derivates of engines used in Sprinters, C and E classes, which are plenty. Especially the old diesel engines to be quite reliable, and a replacement engine from a Sprinter easy enough to come by. Parts for the car so kill you: prop shafts are at almost 2k for example.

Do all in all, coming from either a good military one or civilian, it is realistic to look at around 20k all in all. So I don't even come out ahead budget wise. Throw in more expesinve parts and maintenance, somewhat offser by maybe better reliability (I don't really buy that one so) and the regret of selling my RRC, said RRC needs to be at risk to become a write off to justify anything like that.

Seems I needed to argue with myself to realize that selling still is a bad idea!

hef19898 said:

So that's why my transmission tunnel is welded in... Maybe I am just panicking, and having one of my bouts of wanting new shinney stuff or projects. After all, the LT95 is considered to be bomb proof, right?

Either way, after quickly checking on Ashcroft, even the LT77 gets obsolete, or rather spare parts. Ashcroft recommends using the R380. Which would always be an alternative anyway.

I guess my main pain point regarding my old lady is no real pain point at all. And man, a simple prop shaft for a G Wagon can set one back by 1k!!!! On a RRC I get a new one for a hundred bucks and can install it myself!

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The R380 was used in the P38A 4.0 litre petrol v8 so might bolt up relatively easily. The manual version was rare but I bet there are some scrapped because of HG issues.

badfluffy said:

i always regret getting rid of my old classic,

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Got the same dilemma with my '87 RRC, owned for 16 years but not yet old enough to escape VED at £350 a year. Add to that the insurance premium increases we've all suffered & the on-going £hundreds it costs to maintain it's original condition .. all for a motor that over the past few years has covered less than 1000m a year.

Decisions .. decisions

Ah, insurance and road tax! That's why I draw the line at 30 year old cars, that's when the excemptions kick in Germany. Otherwise, simply unaffordable as hobby, and even less as a daily driver...

norseman said:

Got the same dilemma with my '87 RRC, owned for 16 years but not yet old enough to escape VED at £350 a year. Add to that the insurance premium increases we've all suffered & the on-going £hundreds it costs to maintain it's original condition .. all for a motor that over the past few years has covered less than 1000m a year.

Decisions .. decisions

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only 3 years to go then providing they dont change it

Fingers crossed! Two years to go for mine.

badfluffy said:

only 3 years to go then providing they dont change it

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A few months more than that for mine, because it was built in June '87 it will have to wait until April 2028 to be classed as Historic.