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I have a pig tail (loop) on my main metal brake pipe towards the back, I imagine because the brake pipe was a bit long, but, the (very fussy) MOT garage failed it saying i need to re do the brake pipe without a loop. (Not the flex pipe to the actual cylinder, just the main one from cylinder to back T piece.)

Now, i don't see how it classes as being dangerous, but, I also thought pig tails were intentially put into pipes to remove vibrations - is this just rubbish or is there some vadility to this?

Anyone able to give a good reason how a loop is "dangerous" and should be a MOT failure?
 
I have seen them on vehicles usally around the master cylinder

Never herd of anything failing on it
Brake pipes go on condition ,securaty and not fouling
 
Spunka said:
I have seen them on vehicles usally around the master cylinder

Never herd of anything failing on it
Brake pipes go on condition ,securaty and not fouling
Click to expand...

That was my argument too, I would agree it could maybe do with one more clip on the loop to help secure it and I suggested this, but, they weren't happy with it as a solution. It has been like this for at least 5 years and never been picked up on the MOT before, although i'm not against re-doing the brake pipe and have the tools and skills to do it, I feel the garage are just being deliberately arsey and I'd rather stand my ground on the point.

(FYI it is on my Spitfire rather than any of the Land Rover's, but, the point remains the same)
 
you have to way up if its worth just doing it to get a ticket


or kick off, but i think its down to the tester unless hiss boss will over ride him ( Dout it)
getting an in depent veiw probly wont held unless its VOSA
 
Spunka said:
you have to way up if its worth just doing it to get a ticket


or kick off, but i think its down to the tester unless hiss boss will over ride him ( Dout it)
getting an in depent veiw probly wont held unless its VOSA
Click to expand...

It's a 4th vehicle and an MOT isn't exactly expensive... I feel it is worth a potential kick off - there is a VOSA test centre 2 miles up the road from me, I'm going to call in there and have a chat with them about it first and get an "official" opinion on it.
 
Bump said:
It's a 4th vehicle and an MOT isn't exactly expensive... I feel it is worth a potential kick off - there is a VOSA test centre 2 miles up the road from me, I'm going to call in there and have a chat with them about it first and get an "official" opinion on it.
Click to expand...
Agree with you a VOSA check will kick them right in the butt, heads above the parapet, and all that might entail;) you are paying them a damn good fee to ensure your car complies with the regs today, not their interpretation, W****ers:D
 
livers said:
Agree with you a VOSA check will kick them right in the butt, heads above the parapet, and all that might entail;) you are paying them a damn good fee to ensure your car complies with the regs today, not their interpretation, W****ers:D
Click to expand...

The garage quoted me one price for the MOT (£45) then charged me the maximum they're allowed to because it will have to come back for a re-check. :rolleyes:

Everything I questioned they were like "oh, thats a new one which has come in" Yeah... right. Retrospecively to a 42 year old vehicle?

He also said my battery wasn't secure enough and if it ended up upside down the battery would fall out. - I took great pleasure in informing him that I have had it upside down and the battery DID NOT come out. Apparently practical evidence is not good enough though and I still need to "fix" that. :eek: (if it ain't broke don't fix it... unless it is to satisfy an MOT tester)

VOSA will be the way forward though, I'll fix the bits i agree are wrong then go have a chat with VOSA
 
Not a fail
Dad (mot tester) put a loop in my pipe when he helped me with the brakes perfectly legal, as long as it doesn't rub on anything or isn't corroded it didn't particularly matter what shape it is
 
200tdi ayre said:
Not a fail
Dad (mot tester) put a loop in my pipe when he helped me with the brakes perfectly legal, as long as it doesn't rub on anything or isn't corroded it didn't particularly matter what shape it is
Click to expand...

Don't suppose he wants to write me a letter on letter headed paper stating that with his MOT tester number does he?... :pound:

Pipe doesn't rub on anything, isn't corroded, is generally secure, but, would happily add another clip on the loop if that would keep them happy. I just can't see how it is at all un-safe.
 
I guess the pipe is copper or copper nickel if its a home made replacement ? Anyway the car wasnt made with a loop in its brake piping.Replacement brake pipes made of either of the above dont do too well with vibration or rubbing against things.... Why dont you just change it back to how it was done from the factory and be done with it.
As for loose batteries,I can only say they need to be secure - no arguing just sort it out.Last saturday morning a parts van on its way to me was hit by a battery which flew out from under the bonnet of a car which was going end over end towards him in part of a nasty accident.Luckily it only hit the front skirt of the van - could easily have been so much worse.
I really dont understand why people cant accept the MOT as a safety check,so much of it is nowhere near strict enough,esp in terms of brake disc condition etc,why not just take pride in the fact that your vehicle is up together and able to shrug off any safety test ?
After all the MOT is supposed to be a MINIMUM standard - on the day of test....
 
A lot of motors have them near the master cylinder and I've made them with loops for the purpose of body lifts. Never done it on an axel though. I can't work out where yours is but if its up out the way. Not going to catch a speed hump etc. and is most of all neat... Should be fine.
 
eightinavee said:
I guess the pipe is copper or copper nickel if its a home made replacement ? Anyway the car wasnt made with a loop in its brake piping.Replacement brake pipes made of either of the above dont do too well with vibration or rubbing against things.... Why dont you just change it back to how it was done from the factory and be done with it.
As for loose batteries,I can only say they need to be secure - no arguing just sort it out.Last saturday morning a parts van on its way to me was hit by a battery which flew out from under the bonnet of a car which was going end over end towards him in part of a nasty accident.Luckily it only hit the front skirt of the van - could easily have been so much worse.
I really dont understand why people cant accept the MOT as a safety check,so much of it is nowhere near strict enough,esp in terms of brake disc condition etc,why not just take pride in the fact that your vehicle is up together and able to shrug off any safety test ?
After all the MOT is supposed to be a MINIMUM standard - on the day of test....
Click to expand...

In simple terms... there is no risk to safety of the vehicle in any shape or form by having the loop in the brake line - by undoing to loop, cutting the pipe, re-terminating it and re-doing the connection (which is what they would like) is going to increase the likelyhood of it being unsafe, so, in essence they want me to make my car less safe for the MOT by playing around with the brakes. If the brakes are fully working - which they are and are performing well, which they are, then, why risk making the vehicle less safe?

Battery... I have no problem adding additional securing straps to it, but, it is not going to come out how it is currently fastened in as has been proven.

I think you fail to grasp that the MOT is SUBJECTIVE - it is not clearly enough defined, VOSA need to make it a lot clearer so, silly things like this don't force people to make vehicles less safe to satisfy someones opinion.

I think most people don't see MOT as the minimum... I mean I don't need seat belts, but, I have them, I don't need a roll cage, but, I've got one to go in (needs some minor alterations first) I don't need to carry a fire extinglisher in every vehicle, but, I do. The MOT just looks at certain aspects, that's all.
 
Bump said:
I have a pig tail (loop) on my main metal brake pipe towards the back, I imagine because the brake pipe was a bit long, but, the (very fussy) MOT garage failed it saying i need to re do the brake pipe without a loop. (Not the flex pipe to the actual cylinder, just the main one from cylinder to back T piece.)

Now, i don't see how it classes as being dangerous, but, I also thought pig tails were intentially put into pipes to remove vibrations - is this just rubbish or is there some vadility to this?

Anyone able to give a good reason how a loop is "dangerous" and should be a MOT failure?
Click to expand...

What is the exact wording on the fail sheet?
Agree re vibration and loops
 
vosa arent clear on some things because it is down to testers discretion, you cannot fail a disk on being pitted anymore because that doesnt class a seriously weakened,

as for batterys, it may not be able to come out, but if it moves its not secured. and really not a difficult fix? if you think the tester is being unfair then report him, but do it before you fix the vehicle or they wont do a thing.


bump i also suspect that they dont want you to chop out the loop and put in a joint. if theyre fussy about the loop they going to be fussy about unnecessary joins.

if youve got the kit and the know... do it :) ifs not the end of the world. its neater. and its not going to ever fail on that again
 
Jam1 said:
What is the exact wording on the fail sheet?
Agree re vibration and loops
Click to expand...

it says:
Nearside rear (INCORRECTLY ROUTED) Brake pipe inadequately clipped [3.6.B.1]
Click to expand...

But when I said that if he thought the loop was inadequately clipped i'd happily add another clip... but... that didn't wash.
 
RKServicing said:
bump i also suspect that they dont want you to chop out the loop and put in a joint. if theyre fussy about the loop they going to be fussy about unnecessary joins.

if youve got the kit and the know... do it :) ifs not the end of the world. its neater. and its not going to ever fail on that again
Click to expand...

No they were saying disconnect the pipe, unwind the loop, cut the end off and reduce down to the right length then re-terminate and connect back up.
 
You need to decide , is it easier to fit a big bracket that securely holds the coils of the loop are just cut and shorten . both ways will solve the problem, by complying with the RFF in the manual .
 
Can't see a problem with the loop, if anything it is safer as will help stop the brake pipes from fracturing due to vibration. The loop us often used for brake and metal fuel pipe where there is movement, ie fuel pipe to carb, the engine moves on the mount causing a straight metal pipe to weaken. So in my opinion ( which is worth nothing:D) a loop going to the rear axel is a bloody good idea.
 
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