Right, fun one for you all!

SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
is all in her name, not mine.

She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.

Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
1. Speeding
2. Failing to produce insurance
3. No insurance
4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
5. No MOT
6. Failing to produce driving license.

They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no offence for driving
without a licence.

Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers writing on the
speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle registration has been completely
mis interpreted to the wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen!
If I didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would probably have
arrived at the same interpretation that the police and court have. The
correct plate is an Irish plate in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on
the court paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate. All other
vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot 106). I have the Irish
plate because it spells my initials, and you can't get the letter I on UK
plates.

The witness statement from the person who checked the records for producers
has been signed, but not witnessed by anyone. Does this make this witness
statement invalid?

A phone call to the police shows that the entry on their database is with
the incorrect number, and so this is the number that the prosecution will be
basing their case around. If she pleads not guilty to the charges and goes
to court, what are the chances of the case being thrown out because of the
wrong registration. Obviously she will not be able to produce MOT and
insurance for a vehicle we never had!

Likely fines and penalty points? She's only had her licence for 2 years, so
if she gets more than 6 points its gone anyway under the new driving regs.

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, currently under restoration
Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfriend's) 3" lift kit fitted, body
shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

Simon Isaacs wrote:

> Right, fun one for you all!
>
<snip>
>
> Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers writing on the
> speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle registration has been completely
> mis interpreted to the wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen!
> If I didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would probably have
> arrived at the same interpretation that the police and court have. The
> correct plate is an Irish plate in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on
> the court paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate. All other
> vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot 106).

I can't comment on British law, but NZ law (which is still pretty
closely based on British law) would throw this one out - I've been down
the same road a couple of times (once a parking ticket and once a
speeding ticket) and it's been dropped immediately and never even got to
court when the error has been pointed out. However she may well have to
live with the failing to produce a driving licence one - it's pretty
much immaterial what the vehicle was for that infringement.
Good luck


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

"Simon Isaacs" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:cckf1q$jeh$1@sparta.btinternet.com:

> Right, fun one for you all!
>
> SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and
> the paperwork has arrived today. Because it was a handheld
> camera and not a gatso everything is all in her name, not
> mine.
>
> She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too
> scared to ask me for all the docs because she thought I
> would be mad. Trouble is of course, I am more mad now than
> I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
> Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
> 1. Speeding
> 2. Failing to produce insurance
> 3. No insurance
> 4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
> 5. No MOT
> 6. Failing to produce driving license.
>
> They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no
> offence for driving without a licence.
>
> Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers
> writing on the speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle
> registration has been completely mis interpreted to the
> wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen! If I
> didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would
> probably have arrived at the same interpretation that the
> police and court have. The correct plate is an Irish plate
> in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on the court
> paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate.
> All other vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot
> 106). I have the Irish plate because it spells my
> initials, and you can't get the letter I on UK plates.
>
> The witness statement from the person who checked the
> records for producers has been signed, but not witnessed by
> anyone. Does this make this witness statement invalid?
>
> A phone call to the police shows that the entry on their
> database is with the incorrect number, and so this is the
> number that the prosecution will be basing their case
> around. If she pleads not guilty to the charges and goes
> to court, what are the chances of the case being thrown out
> because of the wrong registration. Obviously she will not
> be able to produce MOT and insurance for a vehicle we never
> had!
>
> Likely fines and penalty points? She's only had her
> licence for 2 years, so if she gets more than 6 points its
> gone anyway under the new driving regs.
>
> --
> Simon Isaacs
>
> Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and
> Webmaster (how much more....)
> 3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
> Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, currently under restoration
> Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfriend's) 3" lift kit fitted, body
> shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a
> windscreen and MOT Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to
> do next 1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long
> live the Pug)
>
> Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk
>
>

Check out the rules on producing documents late. I am sure this
is a lot less serious than not producing them at all. Do that
NOW. Don't comment on the wrong number, just produce the
documents as that is what has been requested.

Second, consult a good solicitor as soon as possible.

Third, I suspect that if they got the registration number down
wrong, it will be thrown out, but IANAL. So -- but go back to
"Second" above.

Derry

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Isaacs"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

>Right, fun one for you all!
>
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
>arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
>is all in her name, not mine.
>
>She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
>for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
>I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
>Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
>1. Speeding
>2. Failing to produce insurance
>3. No insurance
>4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
>5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.
>
>They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no offence for driving
>without a licence.
>
>Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers writing on the
>speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle registration has been completely
>mis interpreted to the wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen!
>If I didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would probably have
>arrived at the same interpretation that the police and court have. The
>correct plate is an Irish plate in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on
>the court paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate. All other
>vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot 106). I have the Irish
>plate because it spells my initials, and you can't get the letter I on UK
>plates.
>
>The witness statement from the person who checked the records for producers
>has been signed, but not witnessed by anyone. Does this make this witness
>statement invalid?
>
>A phone call to the police shows that the entry on their database is with
>the incorrect number, and so this is the number that the prosecution will be
>basing their case around. If she pleads not guilty to the charges and goes
>to court, what are the chances of the case being thrown out because of the
>wrong registration. Obviously she will not be able to produce MOT and
>insurance for a vehicle we never had!
>
>Likely fines and penalty points? She's only had her licence for 2 years, so
>if she gets more than 6 points its gone anyway under the new driving regs.


Right, lets get this straight.
SWMBO was speeding, and got stopped by the roadside?
But the copper wrote down the wrong reg. number?
And the silly cow ignored the producer despite having a big get out
loophole presented to her on a plate?

Get a new woman.

As for the summonses, I'd be tempted to let her sort it all out, but:
They should drop points 3 and 5 if you can prove that Ins and MOT were
in force.
They may be persuaded to drop everything (as long as the vehicle
driver and documents are properly kosher) because of the Reg No. balls
up. It depends on the bench.
Are you a member of the RAC or AA? If you are, get them on to the
case.

Then slap the stupid cow for being stupid.

--
ColonelTupperware
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/
UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

Twas Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC) when "Simon Isaacs"
<me@privacy.net> put finger to keyboard producing:

>Right, fun one for you all!
>
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
>arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
>is all in her name, not mine.
>
>She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
>for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
>I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
>Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
>1. Speeding
>2. Failing to produce insurance
>3. No insurance
>4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
>5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.
>

If you can prove that there was MOT and insurance at the time then 3
and 5 will be dropped straight away.

If you don't have a good reason for not producing then 2, 4 and 6
stand.

1 is set, just because it was written down wrong doesn't mean it
didn't happen.

However if no previous naughtiness then the whole thing is likely to
get thrown out due to the reg number f*** up.

My wife had a driving without insurance thing due to an admin f*** up
when we moved house at renewal time and got a few hundred £ fine and
some points, however it's not affected her insurance at all (saab 9000
turbo cheaper than my 1984 110).

note to your wife... if you ignire it, it won't just go away. ;o)


Regards.
Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)
--
___________________________________________________________
"To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.
www.mrnice.me.uk - www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
___________________________________________________________

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Isaacs"
>Right, fun one for you all!
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the
>paperwork has arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not
>a gatso everything is all in her name, not mine. She was given a
>producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me for all the
>docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course, I am
>more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket. Now
>she has a summons for 6 offences: 1. Speeding 2. Failing to produce
>insurance 3. No insurance 4. Failing to produce a valid MOT 5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.

>They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no offence for
>driving without a licence. Checking through all the docs from the
>court, the officers writing on the speeding ticket is so bad that the
>vehicle registration has been completely mis interpreted to the wrong
>one for a car I have never owned or even seen! If I didn't know the
>registration of my vehicle, I would probably have arrived at the same
>interpretation that the police and court have.

I'd have thought the vehicle was irrelevant in the case that she was
stopped by the police rather than a victim of one of the digital tax
collection machines. SHE was speeding, the car doesn't matter
technically. The fact that the original police paperwork she was given
at the time had the correct registration (even if difficult to read)
negates the later clerical error. She was given a producer, by the
police, bearing the correct registration number.

If she is able to show that she was insured for the vehicle and it had a
valid MOT at the time of the offence then 3 and 5 would have to be
dropped. 1 would normally carry 3 points, assuming there are no other
factors (if it happened in a school 20mph area or she was exceeding the
limit by more than 30mph etc...). 2,4 and 6 would normally be a fine but
if she plays on the wrong registration number "confusing her" she might
get off with a slapped wrist.

If she is in the AA or RAC it would be worth using their legal advice.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

Simon Isaacs wrote:

> Right, fun one for you all!
>
<snip>
>
> Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers writing on the
> speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle registration has been completely
> mis interpreted to the wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen!
> If I didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would probably have
> arrived at the same interpretation that the police and court have. The
> correct plate is an Irish plate in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on
> the court paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate. All other
> vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot 106).

I can't comment on British law, but NZ law (which is still pretty
closely based on British law) would throw this one out - I've been down
the same road a couple of times (once a parking ticket and once a
speeding ticket) and it's been dropped immediately and never even got to
court when the error has been pointed out. However she may well have to
live with the failing to produce a driving licence one - it's pretty
much immaterial what the vehicle was for that infringement.
Good luck


--
EMB
change two to number to reply

"Simon Isaacs" <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:cckf1q$jeh$1@sparta.btinternet.com:

> Right, fun one for you all!
>
> SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and
> the paperwork has arrived today. Because it was a handheld
> camera and not a gatso everything is all in her name, not
> mine.
>
> She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too
> scared to ask me for all the docs because she thought I
> would be mad. Trouble is of course, I am more mad now than
> I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
> Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
> 1. Speeding
> 2. Failing to produce insurance
> 3. No insurance
> 4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
> 5. No MOT
> 6. Failing to produce driving license.
>
> They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no
> offence for driving without a licence.
>
> Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers
> writing on the speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle
> registration has been completely mis interpreted to the
> wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen! If I
> didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would
> probably have arrived at the same interpretation that the
> police and court have. The correct plate is an Irish plate
> in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on the court
> paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate.
> All other vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot
> 106). I have the Irish plate because it spells my
> initials, and you can't get the letter I on UK plates.
>
> The witness statement from the person who checked the
> records for producers has been signed, but not witnessed by
> anyone. Does this make this witness statement invalid?
>
> A phone call to the police shows that the entry on their
> database is with the incorrect number, and so this is the
> number that the prosecution will be basing their case
> around. If she pleads not guilty to the charges and goes
> to court, what are the chances of the case being thrown out
> because of the wrong registration. Obviously she will not
> be able to produce MOT and insurance for a vehicle we never
> had!
>
> Likely fines and penalty points? She's only had her
> licence for 2 years, so if she gets more than 6 points its
> gone anyway under the new driving regs.
>
> --
> Simon Isaacs
>
> Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and
> Webmaster (how much more....)
> 3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
> Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, currently under restoration
> Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfriend's) 3" lift kit fitted, body
> shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a
> windscreen and MOT Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to
> do next 1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long
> live the Pug)
>
> Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk
>
>

Check out the rules on producing documents late. I am sure this
is a lot less serious than not producing them at all. Do that
NOW. Don't comment on the wrong number, just produce the
documents as that is what has been requested.

Second, consult a good solicitor as soon as possible.

Third, I suspect that if they got the registration number down
wrong, it will be thrown out, but IANAL. So -- but go back to
"Second" above.

Derry

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Isaacs"
<me@privacy.net> wrote:

>Right, fun one for you all!
>
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
>arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
>is all in her name, not mine.
>
>She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
>for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
>I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
>Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
>1. Speeding
>2. Failing to produce insurance
>3. No insurance
>4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
>5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.
>
>They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no offence for driving
>without a licence.
>
>Checking through all the docs from the court, the officers writing on the
>speeding ticket is so bad that the vehicle registration has been completely
>mis interpreted to the wrong one for a car I have never owned or even seen!
>If I didn't know the registration of my vehicle, I would probably have
>arrived at the same interpretation that the police and court have. The
>correct plate is an Irish plate in the form of ABC 1234, and the plate on
>the court paperwork is the form of A123 BCD, a standard UK plate. All other
>vehicle details seem to be correct (red peugeot 106). I have the Irish
>plate because it spells my initials, and you can't get the letter I on UK
>plates.
>
>The witness statement from the person who checked the records for producers
>has been signed, but not witnessed by anyone. Does this make this witness
>statement invalid?
>
>A phone call to the police shows that the entry on their database is with
>the incorrect number, and so this is the number that the prosecution will be
>basing their case around. If she pleads not guilty to the charges and goes
>to court, what are the chances of the case being thrown out because of the
>wrong registration. Obviously she will not be able to produce MOT and
>insurance for a vehicle we never had!
>
>Likely fines and penalty points? She's only had her licence for 2 years, so
>if she gets more than 6 points its gone anyway under the new driving regs.


Right, lets get this straight.
SWMBO was speeding, and got stopped by the roadside?
But the copper wrote down the wrong reg. number?
And the silly cow ignored the producer despite having a big get out
loophole presented to her on a plate?

Get a new woman.

As for the summonses, I'd be tempted to let her sort it all out, but:
They should drop points 3 and 5 if you can prove that Ins and MOT were
in force.
They may be persuaded to drop everything (as long as the vehicle
driver and documents are properly kosher) because of the Reg No. balls
up. It depends on the bench.
Are you a member of the RAC or AA? If you are, get them on to the
case.

Then slap the stupid cow for being stupid.

--
ColonelTupperware
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/
UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

Twas Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC) when "Simon Isaacs"
<me@privacy.net> put finger to keyboard producing:

>Right, fun one for you all!
>
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
>arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
>is all in her name, not mine.
>
>She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
>for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
>I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
>Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
>1. Speeding
>2. Failing to produce insurance
>3. No insurance
>4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
>5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.
>

If you can prove that there was MOT and insurance at the time then 3
and 5 will be dropped straight away.

If you don't have a good reason for not producing then 2, 4 and 6
stand.

1 is set, just because it was written down wrong doesn't mean it
didn't happen.

However if no previous naughtiness then the whole thing is likely to
get thrown out due to the reg number f*** up.

My wife had a driving without insurance thing due to an admin f*** up
when we moved house at renewal time and got a few hundred £ fine and
some points, however it's not affected her insurance at all (saab 9000
turbo cheaper than my 1984 110).

note to your wife... if you ignire it, it won't just go away. ;o)


Regards.
Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)
--
___________________________________________________________
"To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.
www.mrnice.me.uk - www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
___________________________________________________________

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Isaacs"
>Right, fun one for you all!
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the
>paperwork has arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not
>a gatso everything is all in her name, not mine. She was given a
>producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me for all the
>docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course, I am
>more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket. Now
>she has a summons for 6 offences: 1. Speeding 2. Failing to produce
>insurance 3. No insurance 4. Failing to produce a valid MOT 5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.

>They have traced her licence from the DVLA, hence no offence for
>driving without a licence. Checking through all the docs from the
>court, the officers writing on the speeding ticket is so bad that the
>vehicle registration has been completely mis interpreted to the wrong
>one for a car I have never owned or even seen! If I didn't know the
>registration of my vehicle, I would probably have arrived at the same
>interpretation that the police and court have.

I'd have thought the vehicle was irrelevant in the case that she was
stopped by the police rather than a victim of one of the digital tax
collection machines. SHE was speeding, the car doesn't matter
technically. The fact that the original police paperwork she was given
at the time had the correct registration (even if difficult to read)
negates the later clerical error. She was given a producer, by the
police, bearing the correct registration number.

If she is able to show that she was insured for the vehicle and it had a
valid MOT at the time of the offence then 3 and 5 would have to be
dropped. 1 would normally carry 3 points, assuming there are no other
factors (if it happened in a school 20mph area or she was exceeding the
limit by more than 30mph etc...). 2,4 and 6 would normally be a fine but
if she plays on the wrong registration number "confusing her" she might
get off with a slapped wrist.

If she is in the AA or RAC it would be worth using their legal advice.

cheers

Dave W.
http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/

Twas Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:41:15 +0000 (UTC) when "Simon Isaacs"
<me@privacy.net> put finger to keyboard producing:

>Right, fun one for you all!
>
>SWMBO got stopped for speeding in March of this year, and the paperwork has
>arrived today. Because it was a handheld camera and not a gatso everything
>is all in her name, not mine.
>
>She was given a producer, and surprise, surprise was too scared to ask me
>for all the docs because she thought I would be mad. Trouble is of course,
>I am more mad now than I would have been with just a speeding ticket.
>
>Now she has a summons for 6 offences:
>1. Speeding
>2. Failing to produce insurance
>3. No insurance
>4. Failing to produce a valid MOT
>5. No MOT
>6. Failing to produce driving license.
>

If you can prove that there was MOT and insurance at the time then 3
and 5 will be dropped straight away.

If you don't have a good reason for not producing then 2, 4 and 6
stand.

1 is set, just because it was written down wrong doesn't mean it
didn't happen.

However if no previous naughtiness then the whole thing is likely to
get thrown out due to the reg number f*** up.

My wife had a driving without insurance thing due to an admin f*** up
when we moved house at renewal time and got a few hundred £ fine and
some points, however it's not affected her insurance at all (saab 9000
turbo cheaper than my 1984 110).

note to your wife... if you ignire it, it won't just go away. ;o)


Regards.
Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.)
--
___________________________________________________________
"To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.
www.mrnice.me.uk - www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D
___________________________________________________________

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:47:48 +0100, Colonel Tupperware
<big.russ@tesco.net> wrote:


>Then slap the stupid cow for being stupid.


Simon, print this and your OP out, give it to her and send her off to
court with it.

Simply ask her to tell the bench that she was frightened and in fear
of domestic violence.

The bench will no doubt throw the case out and give her the number of
a local refuge...