O

Orsonium

Member
Hello to Landyzone..
Looking for those wiser to perhaps advise on this dilemma ..
I drive a defender 90 TD5 (2001) and haven't minded the usual curveballs that happen when bits and bobs go wrong but just over a month ago, I was on the motorway and the oil light came on.. so I pulled over onto the hard shoulder to investigate.. checked the oil and it wasn't empty, but added an extra bit just incase it needed more. Started it up again but the oil light remained on, so I called RAC.. They advised me not to drive it as the engine could be seized - Yikes. They sent recovery vehicle who took it to the garage. Explained to the garage what had happened and advised them to check engine incase it was goosed.
They called to say I was lucky - the engine hadn't seized but the oil pump would need replaced. Whew.
Asked for them to service it as well, just to make sure it was good to go when picking it up, which they did.
Collected it and drove a couple of miles in slow traffic but noticed there wasn't much power - foot to the floor and it struggled to hit 30mph.. called garage and brought it back. They said the turbo needed replaced.. Hmm fair enough. They replaced it and I collected again. drove 10 miles on motorway and it wasn't behaving well.. No warning lights but a whizzing sound from engine, Drove another 5 miles and it started to sound more like a tractor or generator.. Got parked up and called RAC.. they couldn't fix it (said it was mis-firing and maybe an issue with the looms?) so back to the garage..
Garage have called to say 2 cylinders aren't firing and they found metal shavings (brass?) in the oil sump.. They are investigating further but now suggest a new engine..
A second or more opinion would be great..!
 
Fact is oil light on, did more damage than first recognised, so metal in sump means crank regrind and new shells at the very least, hone and new pistons, or reborn and new pistons, how much is a new short block ?
 
freelance said:
Fact is oil light on, did more damage than first recognised, so metal in sump means crank regrind and new shells at the very least, hone and new pistons, or reborn and new pistons, how much is a new short block ?
Click to expand...
Hi.. Thanks for response. Yip, oil light has quite obviously proven to be damaging to the engine, I'm more peeved with my limited knowledge and spending over £1500 on what might be an utter waste of time.. little point in replacing parts in an engine over the last 6 weeks and eventually conclude that it most likely can't be fixed. They haven't quoted on replacement engine yet and are closed now for the holidays.. Thinking I need Landrover experts to take over so will likely have it moved. Just wasn't sure whether to continue with a repair job in the hope that it's sorted eventually, or cut my losses and reverse back to starting point..Actually can't do that as it's not drivable at the moment... laughing, or trying to!
 
Yeah try and find a local independent landy specialist. 2nd hand replacement engines can be had for £500-£800 if it comes to it.

Wonder if it was the oil pump sprocket bolt had come loose? Well known on earlier and even some later td5s. There wasn't any thread lock on the bolt from factory.

Hope you get it sorted, if your defender is in general good nick it's well worth investing in a used engine. New short block and associated rebuild costs might be a bit prohibitive.
 
1988smithy said:
Yeah try and find a local independent landy specialist. 2nd hand replacement engines can be had for £500-£800 if it comes to it.

Wonder if it was the oil pump sprocket bolt had come loose? Well known on earlier and even some later td5s. There wasn't any thread lock on the bolt from factory.

Hope you get it sorted, if your defender is in general good nick it's well worth investing in a used engine. New short block and associated rebuild costs might be a bit prohibitive.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that.. I think I've sourced a landrover garage that loves (and fixes!) old landy's.. They are just choka until late January - I think I'll call a halt on the guys who have been trying to fix it (and failing) , get them to give me a complete rundown on all the work to date (been a whack) and find better carers! I did read about the bolt nut when this episode started . The garage were vague about the replaced oil pump and just said the oil pressure was zilch tho" engine wasn't seized - the repair had sorted it - said it was tickety boo and good to go... ho hum.
I do love this TD5 and aim to keep it going forever.. even if it is a hot potch of repairs.. Can't bear the idea of giving up on it..
 
I think the simplest and best way is another engine, you will just waste more money on the old knackered one.

Then maybe buy a proper oil gauge so you can see the actual pressure as the oil pressure light comes on to late, I think its something like 3 or 5psi which is nowhere near enough for an engine at speed.
 
@jamesmartin
Orsonium said:
Hello to Landyzone..
Looking for those wiser to perhaps advise on this dilemma ..
I drive a defender 90 TD5 (2001) and haven't minded the usual curveballs that happen when bits and bobs go wrong but just over a month ago, I was on the motorway and the oil light came on.. so I pulled over onto the hard shoulder to investigate.. checked the oil and it wasn't empty, but added an extra bit just incase it needed more. Started it up again but the oil light remained on, so I called RAC.. They advised me not to drive it as the engine could be seized - Yikes. They sent recovery vehicle who took it to the garage. Explained to the garage what had happened and advised them to check engine incase it was goosed.
They called to say I was lucky - the engine hadn't seized but the oil pump would need replaced. Whew.
Asked for them to service it as well, just to make sure it was good to go when picking it up, which they did.
Collected it and drove a couple of miles in slow traffic but noticed there wasn't much power - foot to the floor and it struggled to hit 30mph.. called garage and brought it back. They said the turbo needed replaced.. Hmm fair enough. They replaced it and I collected again. drove 10 miles on motorway and it wasn't behaving well.. No warning lights but a whizzing sound from engine, Drove another 5 miles and it started to sound more like a tractor or generator.. Got parked up and called RAC.. they couldn't fix it (said it was mis-firing and maybe an issue with the looms?) so back to the garage..
Garage have called to say 2 cylinders aren't firing and they found metal shavings (brass?) in the oil sump.. They are investigating further but now suggest a new engine..
A second or more opinion would be great..!
Click to expand...
 
Colthebrummie said:
When the oil light came on, how long was the engine running before you switched it off?

Col
Click to expand...
Give or take a couple of minutes... There was no odd noises but I pulled over to hard shoulder soon as it came on to check oil.. then I switched it back on but oil light didn't go off so called RAC.. They said don't drive it and said the engine could seize but the recovery guy asked to turn key in ignition to check if it was seized.. he thought not but didn't drive it..
I"m assuming the issues since especially the last instance since collecting from garage are all related to this oil light and not a cascade of unrelated problems.. Just not sure if driving it since the repairs have caused more harm.
 
lynall said:
I think the simplest and best way is another engine, you will just waste more money on the old knackered one.

Then maybe buy a proper oil gauge so you can see the actual pressure as the oil pressure light comes on to late, I think its something like 3 or 5psi which is nowhere near enough for an engine at speed.
Click to expand...
I kinda wished the guys at the garage suggested that in the first place.. seems pointless to fire cash at something that is goosed!
 
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Sorry to hear this,

If the rest of the Land Rover is in good nick then price up a new engine - it will probably only need a short block (bottom half of the engine basically), the top end and all the ancillaries MAY still be serviceable, but the head will need checking over.

It’s worth noting the oil light indicates low pressure which could be due to low oil level or pump failure.
 
I am also sorry to hear of this.

IMHO & IME, two mins at M-ways speeds will have taken that engine to the point of no return .... the turbo will have gone first....

Your mistake was taking it to a so called "garage" - especially one who, it appears know nothing about LR's .... their mistake was carrying on apparently without the knowledge they needed .... given their duty of care, I would suggest they reduce their bill significantly, or better still refund you in full.

A known good engine, with the insanely stupid oil pump bolt issue fixed is the most cost effective way forward, followed by Lynall's suggestion of an oil pressure gauge ... I'd suggest a Durite capillary gauge :)
 
Disco1BFG said:
I am also sorry to hear of this.

IMHO & IME, two mins at M-ways speeds will have taken that engine to the point of no return .... the turbo will have gone first....

Your mistake was taking it to a so called "garage" - especially one who, it appears know nothing about LR's .... their mistake was carrying on apparently without the knowledge they needed .... given their duty of care, I would suggest they reduce their bill significantly, or better still refund you in full.

A known good engine, with the insanely stupid oil pump bolt issue fixed is the most cost effective way forward, followed by Lynall's suggestion of an oil pressure gauge ... I'd suggest a Durite capillary gauge :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply and insight.. As my aim is to have it back on the road and be smarter after the event, I am going to have to taken to the specialist garage..when they re-open after the holidays. Even if the local guys say they want to finish the job they started.. I have no faith in them.. When I get it taken to the Specialists I'll ask them to fit the oil gauge as suggested.. Fingers crossed the save the day!
 
Orsonium said:
Thank you for your reply and insight.
Click to expand...

HTH.:)

Orsonium said:
As my aim is to have it back on the road and be smarter after the event,
Click to expand...

Cool. It's a shame you've had to learn this way.:(

Orsonium said:
When I get it taken to the Specialists I'll ask them to fit the oil gauge as suggested.
Click to expand...

Ok, But this is a relatively simple DIY job, and most on here will advise you to try and do some small jobs yourself to get some confidence.... none of my vehicles go near a so called garage. Once a year I take them for MOT, and I stay with them too. Also, MOT's are best done at an MOT only place that does not do "repairs" - they aren't drumming up work for themselves.

There are trust worthy garages out there - there must be from a statistical point of view :rolleyes: - but from what I see on here, and from the sad posts of folks like yourself who get stung, it appears there are few and far between . :mad::eek:
 
I cant say thre garage is at fault as Im sure they did what you asked them to?
Tbh Im surprised any garage would even entertain messing about with an engine that has ran with no oil pressure for a couple of minutes, couple of seconds maybe, but minutes no way.
Most garages would only go for the expensive option ie new or recon engine, not so much to fleece you as many would believe, but to cover their rear ends for when it goes wrong, same as using customer supplied parts and so on.

The turbo can go onto your new engine.

I wouldnt use anything else from the oil starved engine incl the head mainly because like the turbo its a long way from the oil pump and if the turbo has ran dry the cams will have had a hard time to and you will never have any faith in it afterwards.
 
Disco1BFG said:
I am also sorry to hear of this.

IMHO & IME, two mins at M-ways speeds will have taken that engine to the point of no return .... the turbo will have gone first....

Your mistake was taking it to a so called "garage" - especially one who, it appears know nothing about LR's .... their mistake was carrying on apparently without the knowledge they needed .... given their duty of care, I would suggest they reduce their bill significantly, or better still refund you in full.

A known good engine, with the insanely stupid oil pump bolt issue fixed is the most cost effective way forward, followed by Lynall's suggestion of an oil pressure gauge ... I'd suggest a Durite capillary gauge :)
Click to expand...

I second a durite capillary gauge. Cheap (reletaviely so!) and very accurate, mine has been fitted a few years now and works fine, and couple with a T piece allows you to keep the oil warming light - which doesn’t come on until pressure is SHOCKINGLY low.....
 
lynall said:
I cant say thre garage is at fault as Im sure they did what you asked them to?
Tbh Im surprised any garage would even entertain messing about with an engine that has ran with no oil pressure for a couple of minutes, couple of seconds maybe, but minutes no way.
Most garages would only go for the expensive option ie new or recon engine, not so much to fleece you as many would believe, but to cover their rear ends for when it goes wrong, same as using customer supplied parts and so on.

The turbo can go onto your new engine.

I wouldnt use anything else from the oil starved engine incl the head mainly because like the turbo its a long way from the oil pump and if the turbo has ran dry the cams will have had a hard time to and you will never have any faith in it afterwards.
Click to expand...
Hi..
Not too sure about the guys doing what I asked them to.. I don't imagine it was done with malice however competence has to be questioned.. I'm not a mechanic but from what I can gather is that if the oil pressure drops and the light comes on, then the engine is going to have suffered catastrophic damage..seems the general consensus here. They assessed the state of the engine and decided that a new oil pump would solve it..then proceeded to replace and tell me it was good to go (this bill was £1000) Well, it wasn't . I didn't instruct them to change parts, I asked to take a look at it and fix it (if that was possible). Should they have told me that it needed a replacement engine at the time then fair play.. would have trusted them on that and let them do what had to be done to get it back on the road.. I have never questioned the work that they have done nor any bill they hand me after completion.. They do the work and I pay them. On this occasion it is different.. They do the work, I pay them and it isn't fixed, it goes back, they do the work, I pay them (with a raised eyebrow!) and its not fixed .. It goes back.. They look at it and think it might need a replacement engine, will get back to me, after the holidays.. 6 weeks wasted, all faith evaporated, over a grand and a half wasted and back to square one. Anyone looking for a new oil pump.. might not be required ..laughing..
Hoping the guys at Gemm can fix it .. fingers crossed and all that
 
jamesmartin said:
yes as above the best course is a good used one
Click to expand...
Is there any way of telling what is "a good used one"? Or will hoping suffice?
The engine was great, no problems until now (or at least nothing that wasn't sorted by those with the skills) - served me very well. Mourning it's death and would love to find another like it...
 
Orsonium said:
Is there any way of telling what is "a good used one"? Or will hoping suffice?
The engine was great, no problems until now (or at least nothing that wasn't sorted by those with the skills) - served me very well. Mourning it's death and would love to find another like it...
Click to expand...
not till you strip it or have driven it awhile but a good supplier offering a guarantee for 3 months or more is a good way to buy, ive bought quite a few over the years and few have been a rip off, you often dont get starter or turbo etc but fitting a good used one is an affordable fix ive used for many customers
 
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