Saint.V8 · Mar 18, 2017

1988 110 with LT77 and original transferbox.

It has been making some odd noises which I thought may have been CV joints, but was more central.

Today, pulled out of a petrol station and suddenly no drive, no bangs or anything just no drive.

Thinking she had slipped out of ratio I checked and she was still in a drive gear and in high ratio. Coasted into a parking spot.

While in gear, foot on brake, let the clutch up and there is no drive or any horrible noises. Speedo needle moves and responds to engine speed.

Put the diff lock on and you get drive.

So, pulled the flange rubbers off and got the girlfriend to put it in drive, diff lock off, and then release the clutch so I could see if a halfshaft was spinning. Nope.

Looked under, neither of the props were spinning either, but the transfer box was rumbling a bit.

Put diff lock on and you get drive. So deove the 7 odd miles home with difflock engaged and she drive fine with a bit of a groan from the transfer box.

So, I am think that because not even the props are spinning, the centre diff or something internal to the TB has gone bang...

With diff lock on and getting drive would suggest this...yes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Will see if I can get her up on stands tommorow and see which end is driving with diff lock on.

Thoughts?

jamesmartin · Mar 18, 2017

if neither of the props spin when its in gear out of difflock then it would suggest center diff

Disco1BFG · Mar 18, 2017

jamesmartin said:
if neither of the props spin when its in gear out of difflock then it would suggest center diff

+1 ;

Saint.V8 said:
Speedo needle moves and responds to engine speed.

IIRC, speedo is driven from the rear of the TB, so failure must be in the front half of the TB / drivetrain...

In my (limited, well limited compared to JM (!) ) experience - it might be front diff pinion shaft/bearings....

Saint.V8 · Mar 18, 2017

jamesmartin said:
if neither of the props spin when its in gear out of difflock then it would suggest center diff

Cheers JM, I would think it is as the symptoms fit.

Is it possible to change the centre diff with box in place? or is it a case of remove from vehicle, strip, repair, replace?

I am a competent DIY'er with a good selection of tools....aside from the large socket with two flats on, are there another special tools required and would it be in the scope of the average DIY'er to strip and rebuild?

Disco1BFG said:
IIRC, speedo is driven from the rear of the TB, so failure must be in the front half of the TB / drivetrain...
In my (limited, well limited compared to JM (!) ) experience - it might be front diff pinion shaft/bearings....

Thanks for the input, all thoughts are welcome. If it was final drive diff, the props would still spin I would have thought...but my knowledge of such things is similarly limited (esp. when compared with the JM's of the world!!)

jamesmartin · Mar 18, 2017

no you need to remove the t/box and take intermediate gears out before the diff

Saint.V8 · Mar 18, 2017

jamesmartin said:
no you need to remove the t/box and take intermediate gears out before the diff

Just my luck then!!

No issue, just a bit of a pain.

Is it as straight forward as: props off, HB Cable off, Difflock wire off, Ratio selection linkage off, support with crane and/or jack from underneath, undo the GB bolts and slide off the shaft....

As for stripping down, any pitfalls or things to look out for and is it easy enough for a DIY'er to attempt?

Would I need the large 'two flat' socket for the diff?

Oh, and sorry for all the questions!

jamesmartin · Mar 18, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
Just my luck then!!

No issue, just a bit of a pain.

Is it as straight forward as: props off, HB Cable off, Difflock wire off, Ratio selection linkage off, support with crane and/or jack from underneath, undo the GB bolts and slide off the shaft....

As for stripping down, any pitfalls or things to look out for and is it easy enough for a DIY'er to attempt?

Would I need the large 'two flat' socket for the diff?

Oh, and sorry for all the questions!

yes ,you can undo and retighten the nut with stilsons ,bearing will prise of ,its easier with diff on its end held in a vice, the diff halves are marked so as they only fit in one orientation

Saint.V8 · Mar 18, 2017

jamesmartin said:
yes ,you can undo and retighten the nut with stilsons ,bearing will prise of ,its easier with diff on its end held in a vice, the diff halves are marked so as they only fit in one orientation

Groovy, many thanks for your advice JM.

Disco1BFG · Mar 19, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
Thanks for the input, all thoughts are welcome. If it was final drive diff, the props would still spin I would have thought...but my knowledge of such things is similarly limited (esp. when compared with the JM's of the world!!)

Yes, absolutely. What I was trying to say in #3 was that I agree entirely with JM.... and he said "if" neither prop spins its the centre diff.... so if one of the props is spinning - which we might imply from the speedo still working.... then the failure is possibly downstream of the centre diff.... - Knowing how much work the centre diff is to "do", then I was trying to be optimistic !! Apologies if same has just confused things.

lynall · Mar 19, 2017

2nd hand tfer box has got to be the easiest/quickest way to get back on the road asap.
Look on ebay they arent dear at all.
Dont forget any LT230 from a 90/110/defender/d1/r/r will physically but you want the same ratio as your current one.

Saint.V8 · Mar 19, 2017

OK Update time....

It is a story of Surprise, Shock, Sorrow, Joy....

Surprise:
I took the centre seatbox panel off and to my surprise I saw the hand brake drum was displaced and barely hanging on.

Shock:
Then it occured to me what might have been if the drum and prop had dropped down during my 7 mile drive (with my girlfriend and our almost 3 year old in the back) I went pale!

Sorrow:
Undid the prop bolts and removed the handbrake drum. The flange nut and washer just fell out once the prop flange was moved out of the way. I took the rear output flange out of the drum and inspected. The splines in flange are shredded - oh dear, what the hell am I going to find on the rear output shaft? Also there is no mudshield fitted to the flange either!

Joy:
The shaft splines are in remarkably good condition! They are dry, and could benefit from a spot of lube, but otherwise they are not chewed, worn, or stripped.

The rear flange, seal, mud shield, etc is about £20 so happy day!

I will also be checking the front flange nut to check this. I know I bought this 110 at a really decent price, and the family admitted they are not mechanically minded, so they left all the work required to a family friend who is also a mechanic...I saw the receipts for some of the work, but what with this and also the crankshaft bolt that was loose without thread lock...make me highly suspicious of this chaps abilities.....and he charges people for this kind of work!

jamesmartin · Mar 19, 2017

Saint.V8 said:
OK Update time....

It is a story of Surprise, Shock, Sorrow, Joy....

Surprise:
I took the centre seatbox panel off and to my surprise I saw the hand brake drum was displaced and barely hanging on.

View attachment 119798

Shock:
Then it occured to me what might have been if the drum and prop had dropped down during my 7 mile drive (with my girlfriend and our almost 3 year old in the back) I went pale!

Sorrow:
Undid the prop bolts and removed the handbrake drum. The flange nut and washer just fell out once the prop flange was moved out of the way. I took the rear output flange out of the drum and inspected. The splines in flange are shredded - oh dear, what the hell am I going to find on the rear output shaft? Also there is no mudshield fitted to the flange either!

View attachment 119800

Joy:
The shaft splines are in remarkably good condition! They are dry, and could benefit from a spot of lube, but otherwise they are not chewed, worn, or stripped.

View attachment 119799

The rear flange, seal, mud shield, etc is about £20 so happy day!

I will also be checking the front flange nut to check this. I know I bought this 110 at a really decent price, and the family admitted they are not mechanically minded, so they left all the work required to a family friend who is also a mechanic...I saw the receipts for some of the work, but what with this and also the crankshaft bolt that was loose without thread lock...make me highly suspicious of this chaps abilities.....and he charges people for this kind of work!

ive never see a t/box flange spline wear but then most have a tight nut,still happy days for a cheap fix but an avoidable issue

Disco1BFG · Mar 19, 2017

jamesmartin said:
ive never see a t/box flange spline wear but then most have a tight nut,still happy days for a cheap fix but an avoidable issue

+1 - Relieved for you

It almost had to be something like this - But OMG as you said if it had fallen orft

Deffo a good idea to check it all over - know anyone with a ramp you can "borrow" ???

Saint.V8 · Mar 20, 2017

Cheers guys for the support.

Fitted a new rear output flange this morning, along with new bolts/nuts, 30mm lock nut, mudsheild, oil seal, felt washer and steel washer.

Put a bit of assembly lube on the splines, aligned the bolts up with the rear prop flange, fitted the feltwasher, steel washer and applied a dribble of thread lock and did the 30mm nut up to 169N.m .

Fitted the Handbrake drum and fitted the retaining screws, then fitted the rear prop, did the nuts up to 47N.m.....took it for a drive and all is well.

Thankfully not a box out issue as I had originally feared!

Huddy84 · Mar 20, 2017

Isn't it funny how some devastatingly terrible things can end up being so simple. Glad it all got fixed nice and cheap.

Magicgrotto · Mar 20, 2017

Jump in a barrel of NIPPLES Suckin yu thum & I bet you come out suckin a nipple ! you lucky sod !!

lynall · Mar 21, 2017

Time to buy a lotto ticket?

tottot · Mar 21, 2017

Phew,if you were a cat one life gone.

We all need a bit of luck sometimes.

Oldseadog · Mar 22, 2017

Pleased that you managed to get it sorted without costing an arm and a leg!

Sir, you are becoming a leg end

Saint.V8 · Mar 22, 2017

Oldseadog said:
Pleased that you managed to get it sorted without costing an arm and a leg!
Sir, you are becoming a leg end

You're too kind.....

Just wait till I finish my 'Remove engine, replace Core Plugs and P gasket' How To - I think I have managed so far to whittle it done to around 100 photos so far I think! A sneaky couple of photos:

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