I

Ian Rawlings

Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm

While I'm no fan of the road-going 4x4 brigade, it's a little tiring
having the daft opinions of some random teacher touted as the headline
article in the entire education section. Especially with gems in it
like "The driver's high vantage point also made it harder to see
pedestrians".. Eh? The whole "status symbol" thing is a little
tiring too, most of the ones I've seen could hardly ever be regarded
as status symbols, and they're very very far from being expensive.

It's like that latest hoo-ha about the number of cautions for rape
doubling in the last 10 years.. From 19 in the previous 10 years, to
40 in the last 10 years. If it was 1000 to 2000 then that would be
something.

It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of
tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail
and Sun.

If the beast passes the MOT tomorrow, I think I'll see about getting a
rocket launcher attachment for it and go drum some sense into people.

In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I
suppose.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Ian Rawlings <news05@tarcus.org.uk> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm

<snip>

> In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I
> suppose.

I know plenty of Teachers who have 4x4's. If his qualification to speak on
the matter is being a History teacher then the BBC really are short of news
worthy articles. It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our
Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint. If the argument is
you can't see them immediately behind then that applies to my Lagnua too.
They really are talking absoloute tosh.

Lee


 
Never read anything more idiotic in my life, any driver of any car, bus or
tank, should drive it with due care and attention to other road users and
pedestrians, that is the law.

All vehicles have blind spots, and it is always the drivers responsibility
to drive within the capabilities of the vehicle.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Ian Rawlings" <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrne3ns3o.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm
>
> While I'm no fan of the road-going 4x4 brigade, it's a little tiring
> having the daft opinions of some random teacher touted as the headline
> article in the entire education section. Especially with gems in it
> like "The driver's high vantage point also made it harder to see
> pedestrians".. Eh? The whole "status symbol" thing is a little
> tiring too, most of the ones I've seen could hardly ever be regarded
> as status symbols, and they're very very far from being expensive.
>
> It's like that latest hoo-ha about the number of cautions for rape
> doubling in the last 10 years.. From 19 in the previous 10 years, to
> 40 in the last 10 years. If it was 1000 to 2000 then that would be
> something.
>
> It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of
> tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail
> and Sun.
>
> If the beast passes the MOT tomorrow, I think I'll see about getting a
> rocket launcher attachment for it and go drum some sense into people.
>
> In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I
> suppose.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!



 
Never read anything more idiotic in my life, any driver of any car, bus or
tank, should drive it with due care and attention to other road users and
pedestrians, that is the law.

All vehicles have blind spots, and it is always the drivers responsibility
to drive within the capabilities of the vehicle.

--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Ian Rawlings" <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrne3ns3o.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm
>
> While I'm no fan of the road-going 4x4 brigade, it's a little tiring
> having the daft opinions of some random teacher touted as the headline
> article in the entire education section. Especially with gems in it
> like "The driver's high vantage point also made it harder to see
> pedestrians".. Eh? The whole "status symbol" thing is a little
> tiring too, most of the ones I've seen could hardly ever be regarded
> as status symbols, and they're very very far from being expensive.
>
> It's like that latest hoo-ha about the number of cautions for rape
> doubling in the last 10 years.. From 19 in the previous 10 years, to
> 40 in the last 10 years. If it was 1000 to 2000 then that would be
> something.
>
> It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of
> tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail
> and Sun.
>
> If the beast passes the MOT tomorrow, I think I'll see about getting a
> rocket launcher attachment for it and go drum some sense into people.
>
> In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I
> suppose.
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!


 
On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:07:54 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<news05@tarcus.org.uk> scribbled the following nonsense:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4900000.stm
>
>While I'm no fan of the road-going 4x4 brigade, it's a little tiring
>having the daft opinions of some random teacher touted as the headline
>article in the entire education section. Especially with gems in it
>like "The driver's high vantage point also made it harder to see
>pedestrians".. Eh? The whole "status symbol" thing is a little
>tiring too, most of the ones I've seen could hardly ever be regarded
>as status symbols, and they're very very far from being expensive.
>
>It's like that latest hoo-ha about the number of cautions for rape
>doubling in the last 10 years.. From 19 in the previous 10 years, to
>40 in the last 10 years. If it was 1000 to 2000 then that would be
>something.
>
>It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of
>tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail
>and Sun.
>
>If the beast passes the MOT tomorrow, I think I'll see about getting a
>rocket launcher attachment for it and go drum some sense into people.
>
>In the meantime, another pointless email to the beeb is in order I
>suppose.

huh, the kids, their parents and staff all keep an eye on me to see
what 4x4 I come to work in. *Everyone* thinks burrt is cool!
--

Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster
Green Lane Association (GLASS) Financial Director
101 Ambi, undergoing camper conversion www.simoni.co.uk
1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, ready for sale! Make me an offer!
Suzuki SJ410 (Wife's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery
1994 200 TDi Discovery body shell, being bobbed and modded.....
 
On 2006-04-11, Lee_D <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> wrote:

> It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our
> Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint.

I live outside a school, a small one but the road still gets packed
with cars, something in the region of 30 or so. There are 2 4x4s that
appear regularly, both with Ifor Williams hard-tops on the back with
cage doors. The moan I had at the beeb when I wrote the letter was
along the lines of "what's more likely to kill a kid, 2 4x4s or 30
cars". While driving around the country I've seen a few school runs,
and 4x4s were always very much in the minority. Hardly scientific I
know, but I don't think that 4x4s are the problem outside of schools,
more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners
drive around not really paying attention.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Lee_D wrote:

> you can't see them immediately behind then that applies to my Lagnua too.

One other thing is that especially in a car park with some vehicles
running, some not, you can normally tell when a LR product has started
and is moving due to the vast quantities of smoke+noise, crunching
gears etc. So the kids have plenty of time to get out of the way ;-)

Modern cars are that quiet I regularly get flattened in car parks by
cars moving backwards....

Regards

William MacLeod

 
On 2006-04-11, Simon Isaacs <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> huh, the kids, their parents and staff all keep an eye on me to see
> what 4x4 I come to work in. *Everyone* thinks burrt is cool!

Thankfully I'm no longer an evil bunny killing murderous 4x4 satanic
terrorist, as I drive a 6x6! Bunny hugs all round.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Come on, driving kids to school in a 4x4 is nonsense. 90% of
driving-kids-to-school is nonsense anyway. We walked or bused, and
consequently developed social skills and independence along the way.
As for "danger lurking" -- all the pedophiles we met were at the front
of the classroom.

More 4x4 nonsense: in BC, Canada at least, I see many 4x4's in the
ditch after a snowstorm. One reason of course is arrogant assumption
about 4x4 traction.

The other, which cropped up interestingly during a series of expert
car-talk programmes, is that in straight-line highway driving in ice or
snow, two-wheel drive operates more predictably. Several contributors
were puzzled by the self-steering, 'hunting', and awkward steering of
their vehicles on snowy highways, and the engineers involved told them
to turn off 4wd when on the level: the two axles (and in some vehicles
each wheel) were trying to "equalize" something that did not need to be
equalized.

I love Land Rovers absolutely, but I know from farm experience that an
old Morris Minor pickup 2wd on winter tires was only rarely in trouble
in the fields with regard to traction, and the Landy on the roads would
occasionally bite back (expensively if we forgot to take it outr of
4wd, I'm talking about the early 1960's).

I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the
Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is
Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work!

Long live Land Rovers for sheer recreation pleasure on and off the
road. I bused and walked, and my daughter bused and walked, and we
pitied in our turn the kids who had to ride with mum or dad to the
school gates.

 
On 2006-04-11, brafield@hotmail.com <brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the
> Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is
> Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work!

Not sure you read my post to be honest, I don't think people should be
piling up in anything, 4x4 or not, outside of schools. In my opinion
we have a whole ****load of people who are causing problems with
pollution throughout the country, all pointing at 4x4 users and
blaming them, when in reality 4x4 users are an insignificant sideshow
compared to the majority due to weight of numbers.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On or around Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:45:44 +0100, Ian Rawlings
<news05@tarcus.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>On 2006-04-11, Lee_D <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> wrote:
>
>> It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our
>> Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint.
>
>I live outside a school, a small one but the road still gets packed
>with cars, something in the region of 30 or so. There are 2 4x4s that
>appear regularly, both with Ifor Williams hard-tops on the back with
>cage doors. The moan I had at the beeb when I wrote the letter was
>along the lines of "what's more likely to kill a kid, 2 4x4s or 30
>cars". While driving around the country I've seen a few school runs,
>and 4x4s were always very much in the minority. Hardly scientific I
>know, but I don't think that 4x4s are the problem outside of schools,
>more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners
>drive around not really paying attention.

and take off like a friggin' le mans start, too. The number of parents
driving recklessly fast outside school amazes me.

once the kids are in the motor, belted or not, off they go at maximum warp.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Confidence: Before important work meetings, boost your confidence by
reading a few pages from "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On or around 11 Apr 2006 13:17:50 -0700, "brafield@hotmail.com"
<brafield@hotmail.com> enlightened us thusly:

>I appreciate how annoying it is to feel sniped at, especially on the
>Beeb and especially by a teacher, but taking kids to school in a 4x4 is
>Nature's way of saying you have too much money and not enough work!

but of course taking them in a people carrier or a large saloon car is OK?

that's the sort of crap we're up against.

and yes, I reckon they should walk.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Confidence: Before important work meetings, boost your confidence by
reading a few pages from "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
>
> It's amazing what passes for news. I'd hate to think what kind of
> tosh gets regularly printed outside of the beeb in rags like the Mail
> and Sun.
>

If her tits are not 38 to 44 DDs then that is newsworthy!!


 

Ian Rawlings wrote:

> Not sure you read my post to be honest, I don't think people should be
> piling up in anything, 4x4 or not, outside of schools. In my opinion
> we have a whole ****load of people who are causing problems with
> pollution throughout the country, all pointing at 4x4 users and
> blaming them, when in reality 4x4 users are an insignificant sideshow
> compared to the majority due to weight of numbers.
>
**** Yes, I did rush it, I admit, and my "Chelsea Tractor" button lit
up! Scuse me.

And BTW just this week I read (West Coast Canada) that a single average
large freight ship entering and leaving port emits more nitro-whatever
pollutants in one hour than 35,000 motor vehicles. In fact if I
checked back I think the ratio was even worse. We now have air
monitoring stations on the coast and ship-engine pollution is truly
scary, but "invisible" and not thought of by everyone of course. ****

--
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

 
On 2006-04-11, brafield@hotmail.com <brafield@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And BTW just this week I read (West Coast Canada) that a single
> average large freight ship entering and leaving port emits more
> nitro-whatever pollutants in one hour than 35,000 motor vehicles.

Doesn't surprise me, I try to buy British food, not just to support
our locals, but because I don't care how bunny-hugging the food on the
shelves claims to be, if it's been shipped from the USA or Israel it's
burning and looting bunny city just like us evil 4x4 terrorists.

You don't see much on the box about people flying out to get their
shopping or for short holidays either, there have been a few short
articles on it, but nothing like the kind of sustained presence that
4x4 users are subjected to. The "moral majority" don't like to look
at themselves when they have some handy scapegoats nearby.

I've also seen people pulling up at the local recycling centre in
cars, and dumping off one bin-bag full of clippings into the "garden
waste" bin.. Grr!

I also STR an article about what happens to the stuff we send off for
recycling. Much of it gets shipped overseas! Much of the plastic we
"recycle" ends up in landfill in China according to whatever article
it was (probably on the beeb website, that's all I bother reading
these days).

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
In message <slrne3o1r8.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk>
Ian Rawlings <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:

> On 2006-04-11, Lee_D <newsgroupNOSPAM@NOSPAMlrproject.com> wrote:
>
> > It's much easier to see kids from a 4x4 than it is in our
> > Laguna. The height actually makes for a better viewpoint.
>
> I live outside a school, a small one but the road still gets packed
> with cars, something in the region of 30 or so. There are 2 4x4s that
> appear regularly, both with Ifor Williams hard-tops on the back with
> cage doors. The moan I had at the beeb when I wrote the letter was
> along the lines of "what's more likely to kill a kid, 2 4x4s or 30
> cars". While driving around the country I've seen a few school runs,
> and 4x4s were always very much in the minority. Hardly scientific I
> know, but I don't think that 4x4s are the problem outside of schools,
> more like hundreds of cars packed in like sardines while the owners
> drive around not really paying attention.
>

It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety. As for
teachers, well my ex was a teacher and I was effectively banned
from PTA "do's" as I had a nasty habbit of pointing out that
the real world was rather different to that put forward by
teaching Unions and Saloon Bar Experts. The classic was a
teacher telling Bob The Builder he should go to a gymn and
get some excersise.........he'd just put their roof trusses
on single handed.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
<sigh>

I've said it before and I'll say it again - It's not the car, it's the
driver.

Case in point, when the anti-4x4 brigade were at my house filming, my next
door neighbour reversed off her drive, straight into the greenpeace BRIGHT
RED Ford Ka. I'm not talking slightly bumped, I'm talking RAMMED. Basically
she didn't look and reversed at speed! Was she driving a 4x4? Was she
bob...she was driving a Bora! Her excuse? "I was wondering what was going on
over there (my house)" - in my book - NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE ROAD.

Anyway....it's about jealousy in my book. Ban it 'cos we can't have/afford
it. If I choose to drop off my kids at the school on my way to work (and
pick up some colleagues on the way), I park carefully and considerately. The
vehicle has reversing cameras and parking sensors - but so what? I can still
ignore them and run someone over *if I am not paying attention*. Any car,
any person. Not just 4x4's!

Oh and just to put this in perspective, my daughter walks to school, my son
is still a little to young to deal with the main roads (he's not the most
world-wise person - wanders around walking into things!). In the winter we
will pick them up from the after school club at around 6pm ... and we are
usually one of 2 cars outside the school at that time :)

Oh and the headmistress drives a 4x4, and so do a few of the teachers (one
is a very nice 90 and the other an RTV Lightweight!)

--
Neil


 
On 2006-04-12, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

> It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety.

I'm not convinced of that, given that 4x4s aren't exclusive or
expensive on the whole, and if it was envy they'd be attacking sports
cars and executive saloons more as well. I reckon it's the
gossip-circuit science that "proves" all 4x4s use more fuel than all
non-4x4s, allowing the non-4x4 drivers to feel all environmental by
not driving one and attacking those who do. That and the "proof"
about safety issues, which do have some grounding in truth, but at
just 15% of the total consumer car population, not really
significant.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
In message <slrne3pfgn.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk>
Ian Rawlings <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:

> On 2006-04-12, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> > It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety.
>
> I'm not convinced of that, given that 4x4s aren't exclusive or
> expensive on the whole, and if it was envy they'd be attacking sports
> cars and executive saloons more as well. I reckon it's the
> gossip-circuit science that "proves" all 4x4s use more fuel than all
> non-4x4s, allowing the non-4x4 drivers to feel all environmental by
> not driving one and attacking those who do. That and the "proof"
> about safety issues, which do have some grounding in truth, but at
> just 15% of the total consumer car population, not really
> significant.
>

Ah, but they can't attack sports/performance cars, because they
arn't (necesserily) that easy to spot and their friend may well
own one, whereas (what they mean by) 4x4's stand out - in other
words, the anti's (as ever) go for the easy target rather than what
(they percieve) is the problem. Ask them if a Fiat Panda 4x4
should also be banned and they'll probably look at you blankly
- the chances of them knowing they even exist, never mind spotting
one, are not good. Pointing out that a Series motor is (for all
practical purposes) 2-wheel drive also throws them......they won't
have bothered checking out the facts, and they won't listen to
what they don't want to hear [1]

Just my 2p.

Richard

[1] applies to all anti's on any subject. The Ramblers Association
having better rights than everyone else's boring old everyday rights
is the classic example.

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:25c58164e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> In message <slrne3pfgn.ck6.news05@desktop.tarcus.org.uk>
> Ian Rawlings <news05@tarcus.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 2006-04-12, beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It's the politics of envy - nothing to do with safety.
> >
> > I'm not convinced of that, given that 4x4s aren't exclusive or
> > expensive on the whole, and if it was envy they'd be attacking sports
> > cars and executive saloons more as well. I reckon it's the
> > gossip-circuit science that "proves" all 4x4s use more fuel than all
> > non-4x4s, allowing the non-4x4 drivers to feel all environmental by
> > not driving one and attacking those who do. That and the "proof"
> > about safety issues, which do have some grounding in truth, but at
> > just 15% of the total consumer car population, not really
> > significant.
> >
>
> Ah, but they can't attack sports/performance cars, because they
> arn't (necesserily) that easy to spot and their friend may well
> own one, whereas (what they mean by) 4x4's stand out - in other
> words, the anti's (as ever) go for the easy target rather than what
> (they percieve) is the problem. Ask them if a Fiat Panda 4x4
> should also be banned and they'll probably look at you blankly
> - the chances of them knowing they even exist, never mind spotting
> one, are not good. Pointing out that a Series motor is (for all
> practical purposes) 2-wheel drive also throws them......they won't
> have bothered checking out the facts, and they won't listen to
> what they don't want to hear [1]
>
> Just my 2p.
>
> Richard
>
> [1] applies to all anti's on any subject. The Ramblers Association
> having better rights than everyone else's boring old everyday rights
> is the classic example.
>

Another glaring (but conveniently side-stepped) omission is slab-fronted
delivery vans / builders hacks / lorries which will do just as much damage.
However, two things spring immediately to mind: a) how many of those
children hit by vehicles are *actually* hit by "4x4's" (and why haven't
mummy and daddy taught their offspring to cross the road properly), and b)
it doesn't have to be a "4x4", even if little Johnny or Jemima get's hit by
a Fiat 500 or some sweating lycra-clad two-hat on a push bike it's *still*
going to sting!

No doubt there's an MP/election candidate somewhere who thinks there's a few
votes to be had here and will jump on the bandwagon with slogans such as:
"The overwhelming majority of the population has given us the mandate to
bring in these [omits "ill-conceived and draconian"] measures to ban the
horrible nasty stinky eeewww fox-killing paedophile rapist will kill your
child if they're so much as in the same county and granny ain't safe either
gas-guzzling [that's GOT to be in there somewhere!!] crested
newt/orchid/badger/bunny/rare something destroying [but only rare because
some other vocal minority pressure group whose votes I also want told me it
was rare] grid-lock making 4x4".

Phew! Soap box tested, works a treat.
Steve


 
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