....say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
IRO £800.

And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
original work which had led to the second problem.

Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.

What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
repair, and what would the process involve?

Thanks,
David

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:21:03 +0100, "David French"
<david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:

>...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
>IRO £800.
>
>And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
>the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
>second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
>original work which had led to the second problem.
>
>Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
>dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
>form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>
>What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
>repair, and what would the process involve?
>
A Land Rover through the window?

sideways.

--
ColonelTupperware
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/
UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

David French wrote:
>and what would the process involve?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>
101 convention time ?

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:21:03 +0100, "David French"
<david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:

>...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
>IRO £800.
>
>And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
>the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
>second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
>original work which had led to the second problem.
>
>Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
>dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
>form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>
>What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
>repair, and what would the process involve?
>
>Thanks,
>David
>

Apologies for the long post...

You could legally park the aforementioned Land Rover outside the
dealership with a factually 100% accurate (and provably so)
description of your grievance in large letters.

You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).

Depending on the age of the vehicle you could involve Land Rover
customer services. An independent engineers report would certainly
strengthen your case.

The key to success in any small legal action is to involve the other
party in so many annoying costs and other irritations that they find
it cheaper to settle. When fighting a business there is a good chance
that the opposition are judging things on pounds and pence, not
personal pride or desire 'to win'. You may need to escalate it higher
in the organisation to get that perspective though.

I've had a lot of success with formal letter writing (recently winning
a refund from a major electronics retailer for a duff hi-fi component
plus a climb-down from a motor insurer on my sister's behalf). Don't
ever conduct these matters by phone - it's too easy for people to hear
what they want to hear and renege later.

Always end the letter by making a positive suggestion to 'bring the
matter to a mutually agreeable close' (i.e. "you can get rid of me if
you say yes to this"), pointing out that you will apportion no blame
and make no public statement about the whole affair. Perhaps aim for
compensation in some other form than cash - perhaps some parts or a
free service or something. That way the employee at the dealer
doesn't have to justify a credit note to his boss, but can instead
brag to his colleagues about how he fobbed you off with a free service
that costs them sod all anyway.

It's also worth putting some semi-formal sentences in their - e.g.
head every letter with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' and statements like "I
don't feel that you have exercised 'reasonably skill and care'" - the
message will be "Oh Christ, his best mate is a lawyer". Lawyer mates
are much more worrying than paid lawyers, because they go on forever
on nil-cost personal crusades for their friends.

And don't play all your cards in the first letter. You want to keep
something back, so you can write to them every single week until they
get fed up of you. There is also a general fear of Watchdog and
Trading Standards amongst retailers, which you could allude to.

HTH


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'67 Series 2a 109" aka "Ernie (FOR SALE)
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)
03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

"Steve Taylor" <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:40e1a96c$0$4592$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> David French wrote:
> >and what would the process involve?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
> 101 convention time ?

On the doorstep at 9am.
"Hello, me and a few friends would like to take look round the show room.
We've had a little trouble parking; all 20 of us. Used up all your customer
spaces, workshop spaces, staff spaces and had to put a few very close to
your new Range Rovers"

--
-------
# | |
:===[==¬|====;
[/ \|___|_/ \|
\_/ \_/
DavidM djm81NOSPAMatcam.ac.uk

"Tim Hobbs" <tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote in message
news:m1a3e09866ks64eummfpasuc7hjnsu6rkn@4ax.com...
> Apologies for the long post...

That's OK, thanks for taking the time.

> You could legally park the aforementioned Land Rover outside the
> dealership with a factually 100% accurate (and provably so)
> description of your grievance in large letters.

The hypothetical dealer is a long way away, unfortunately.

> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).

Keep me posted. I'd like to learn the process.

> Depending on the age of the vehicle you could involve Land Rover
> customer services. An independent engineers report would certainly
> strengthen your case.

Not applicable in this case.

> The key to success in any small legal action is to involve the other
> party in so many annoying costs and other irritations that they find
> it cheaper to settle. When fighting a business there is a good chance
> that the opposition are judging things on pounds and pence, not
> personal pride or desire 'to win'. You may need to escalate it higher
> in the organisation to get that perspective though.

I've been banking on this. I've tried the nice approach and not got far.
I'm now exploring alternatives.

> I've had a lot of success with formal letter writing (recently winning
> a refund from a major electronics retailer for a duff hi-fi component
> plus a climb-down from a motor insurer on my sister's behalf). Don't
> ever conduct these matters by phone - it's too easy for people to hear
> what they want to hear and renege later.

I've been emailing, as it happens. Still a papertrail in place though.

> Always end the letter by making a positive suggestion to 'bring the
> matter to a mutually agreeable close' (i.e. "you can get rid of me if
> you say yes to this"), pointing out that you will apportion no blame
> and make no public statement about the whole affair. Perhaps aim for
> compensation in some other form than cash - perhaps some parts or a
> free service or something. That way the employee at the dealer
> doesn't have to justify a credit note to his boss, but can instead
> brag to his colleagues about how he fobbed you off with a free service
> that costs them sod all anyway.

Funnily enough, this is exactly the tack I've taken. But they're not
playing ball.

> It's also worth putting some semi-formal sentences in their - e.g.
> head every letter with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' and statements like "I
> don't feel that you have exercised 'reasonably skill and care'" - the
> message will be "Oh Christ, his best mate is a lawyer". Lawyer mates
> are much more worrying than paid lawyers, because they go on forever
> on nil-cost personal crusades for their friends.
>
> And don't play all your cards in the first letter. You want to keep
> something back, so you can write to them every single week until they
> get fed up of you. There is also a general fear of Watchdog and
> Trading Standards amongst retailers, which you could allude to.

That's true, I could call my Watchdog connections... Might be worth
mentioning!

Thanks Tim.
David

As they are franchised dealers it would be interesting to see what Lode Lane
would say about it, especially as Ford seems hell bent on knackering LR UK
!!
Copy and send all your correspondance to HQ with a note to said dealer's CEO

"David French" <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:40e1a500$0$4593$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> ...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had
cost
> IRO £800.
>
> And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem
with
> the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that
this
> second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
> original work which had led to the second problem.
>
> Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
> dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting
any
> form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>
> What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
> repair, and what would the process involve?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

>
> > You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> > be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).
>
> Keep me posted. I'd like to learn the process.

I did this myself a few years ago. The process is quite simple and the
Court staff very helpful. There are plenty of leaflets available from
the court office which give good advice and are in plain English. The
only problem is the time it takes. Mine took six months, but I got
everything I wanted.

good luck and don't give up

Paul

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:31:02 +0100, "David French"
<david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:

>
>The hypothetical dealer is a long way away, unfortunately.
>
>> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
>> be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).
>
>Keep me posted. I'd like to learn the process.

Then be careful about the wording, the normal small claims procedure
enables the defendant to have the hearing near them, I think the only
way to have the case heard near you is if you don't liquidate (i.e.
leave the amount claimed open) the damage. IME companies with
solicitors take it to the line. Also if you choose this route make
sure you have investigated all avenues of mediation. Only sue on a
matter of principal if you believe the lawyers need your money IANAL.


AJH

Hi all,

I've done this with Ford *and* Land Rover. I won't go into the details, but
thanks to Ford, I now own Piglet. I did glean one IMPORTANT piece of
information in the 9 months of hell I had with them. There is only ONE Ford
garage in the UK. ONE. Yes, you read that right. It's in Daggenham. There
are no others. The others are Franchises and are *nothing* to do with Ford.
Scary huh?

--
Neil

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:26:53 +0000 (UTC), "Neil Brownlee"
<n.brownlee@pccontrolNOSPAMsystems.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I've done this with Ford *and* Land Rover. I won't go into the details, but
>thanks to Ford, I now own Piglet. I did glean one IMPORTANT piece of
>information in the 9 months of hell I had with them. There is only ONE Ford
>garage in the UK. ONE. Yes, you read that right. It's in Daggenham. There
>are no others. The others are Franchises and are *nothing* to do with Ford.
>Scary huh?

That's true of virtually all car dealers. I'm surprised they actually
own the one in Dagenham.

However, if the manufacturer feels that a franchisee is bringing them
into disrepute they are at liberty to withdraw the franchise, and thus
_can_ bring substantial pressure to bear should they feel inclined to
do so.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'67 Series 2a 109" aka "Ernie (FOR SALE)
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'95 Discovery V8i aka "The Disco" (FOR SALE)
03 Volvo V70

My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk
Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com
Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com

"David French" <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote in
news:40e1b567$0$4593$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:

> The hypothetical dealer is a long way away, unfortunately.
>
>> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court
>> (I'm going to be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be
>> a good learning process).

I had trouble with a video duplicating firm (I make videos).
They refused to return my masters, demanding I pay for work they
did rectifying their own mistakes. Fortunately, I had everything
in writing. I sued in the local Small Claims Court for the
return of my tapes (no damages) and won.

They did not elect for the case to be brought local to them
(Bristol) and it is my understanding that they would have had to
have been represented in Scotland (where my local court is). As
it was, they did not bother to turn up or be represented and I
won by default.

They treated the whole thing as a bit of a joke and I got my
tapes back which cost them no more than loss of face. BUT the
"joke" turned a bit sour when I posted my experiences to various
video newsgroups and repeated the story every time someone asked
for recommendations for a good duplicator! "Don't use XYZ, this
is what they did to me", etc!

I heard they went bust.... NEVER underestimate the power of word
of mouth. There is absolutely nothing they can do if you post
the truth and can prove it. Nothing as caste iron as a court
judgement and nothing so sweet as revenge served cold. Something
your hypothetical garage ought to hypothetically ponder.

Derry

On 30 Jun, in article
<Xns9518E3DEE4ABBderryadviegundogscou@130.133.1.4>
derry(delete)@adviegundogs.co.uk "Derry Argue" wrote:

> "David French" <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote in
> news:40e1b567$0$4593$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk:
>
> > The hypothetical dealer is a long way away, unfortunately.
> >
> >> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court
> >> (I'm going to be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be
> >> a good learning process).
>
> I had trouble with a video duplicating firm (I make videos).
> They refused to return my masters, demanding I pay for work they
> did rectifying their own mistakes. Fortunately, I had everything
> in writing. I sued in the local Small Claims Court for the
> return of my tapes (no damages) and won.

Even with the argument over the extra work, you were on pretty solid
ground on the return of your tapes

> They did not elect for the case to be brought local to them
> (Bristol) and it is my understanding that they would have had to
> have been represented in Scotland (where my local court is). As
> it was, they did not bother to turn up or be represented and I
> won by default.
>
> They treated the whole thing as a bit of a joke and I got my
> tapes back which cost them no more than loss of face. BUT the
> "joke" turned a bit sour when I posted my experiences to various
> video newsgroups and repeated the story every time someone asked
> for recommendations for a good duplicator! "Don't use XYZ, this
> is what they did to me", etc!
>
> I heard they went bust.... NEVER underestimate the power of word
> of mouth. There is absolutely nothing they can do if you post
> the truth and can prove it. Nothing as caste iron as a court
> judgement and nothing so sweet as revenge served cold. Something
> your hypothetical garage ought to hypothetically ponder.
>
> Derry
>

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

in article m1a3e09866ks64eummfpasuc7hjnsu6rkn@4ax.com, Tim Hobbs at
tim@101ambulance-urine.net wrote on 29/6/04 6:48 pm:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:21:03 +0100, "David French"
> <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> ...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
>> IRO £800.
>>
>> And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
>> the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
>> second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
>> original work which had led to the second problem.
>>
>> Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
>> dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
>> form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>>
>> What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
>> repair, and what would the process involve?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>
> Apologies for the long post...
>
> You could legally park the aforementioned Land Rover outside the
> dealership with a factually 100% accurate (and provably so)
> description of your grievance in large letters.
>
> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).
>
> Depending on the age of the vehicle you could involve Land Rover
> customer services. An independent engineers report would certainly
> strengthen your case.
>
> The key to success in any small legal action is to involve the other
> party in so many annoying costs and other irritations that they find
> it cheaper to settle. When fighting a business there is a good chance
> that the opposition are judging things on pounds and pence, not
> personal pride or desire 'to win'. You may need to escalate it higher
> in the organisation to get that perspective though.
>
> I've had a lot of success with formal letter writing (recently winning
> a refund from a major electronics retailer for a duff hi-fi component
> plus a climb-down from a motor insurer on my sister's behalf). Don't
> ever conduct these matters by phone - it's too easy for people to hear
> what they want to hear and renege later.
>
> Always end the letter by making a positive suggestion to 'bring the
> matter to a mutually agreeable close' (i.e. "you can get rid of me if
> you say yes to this"), pointing out that you will apportion no blame
> and make no public statement about the whole affair. Perhaps aim for
> compensation in some other form than cash - perhaps some parts or a
> free service or something. That way the employee at the dealer
> doesn't have to justify a credit note to his boss, but can instead
> brag to his colleagues about how he fobbed you off with a free service
> that costs them sod all anyway.
>
> It's also worth putting some semi-formal sentences in their - e.g.
> head every letter with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' and statements like "I
> don't feel that you have exercised 'reasonably skill and care'" - the
> message will be "Oh Christ, his best mate is a lawyer". Lawyer mates
> are much more worrying than paid lawyers, because they go on forever
> on nil-cost personal crusades for their friends.
>
> And don't play all your cards in the first letter. You want to keep
> something back, so you can write to them every single week until they
> get fed up of you. There is also a general fear of Watchdog and
> Trading Standards amongst retailers, which you could allude to.
>
> HTH
>
Have just gone through something similar with the Maytag american washing
machine we bought a couple of years ago. After four or five breakdowns in
the first year which ended in a new motor, the replacement lasted less than
three months. I have just had the second motor fitted, after numerous phone
calls and the only result I had was after I wrote a letter saying how
disappointed I was in their product and their service and that if I didn't
hear from them within seven days that I would be contacting a
solicitor/trading standards.

I recieved a phone call from them and had a new motor fitted within two
weeks of the letter and have a full 5 year extended warranty with the motor.
I did have to pay a company to fit the motor, but that is only because I
refused to have the original engineer who had been to repair it fit it
because as far as we were concerned he was unable to do his job properly,
for various reasons, one of which was his rude and obnoxious attitude.

Its ages since I've been through the business of small claims, but a letter
giving them 7 days to reply before you take matters further is usually what
you have to do first. Send it registered post so it has to be signed for or
hand deliver the letter.
--
Nikki

1990 Discovery V8i
1985 Range Rover V8
1975 88" Series III 2.25 petrol
1979 Series III Lightweight 2.25 petrol

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:21:03 +0100, "David French"
<david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:

>...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
>IRO £800.
>
>And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
>the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
>second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
>original work which had led to the second problem.
>
>Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
>dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
>form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>
>What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
>repair, and what would the process involve?
>
A Land Rover through the window?

sideways.

--
ColonelTupperware
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/
UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

>
> > You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> > be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).
>
> Keep me posted. I'd like to learn the process.

I did this myself a few years ago. The process is quite simple and the
Court staff very helpful. There are plenty of leaflets available from
the court office which give good advice and are in plain English. The
only problem is the time it takes. Mine took six months, but I got
everything I wanted.

good luck and don't give up

Paul

"Steve Taylor" <steve@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:40e1a96c$0$4592$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> David French wrote:
> >and what would the process involve?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> >
> >
> 101 convention time ?

On the doorstep at 9am.
"Hello, me and a few friends would like to take look round the show room.
We've had a little trouble parking; all 20 of us. Used up all your customer
spaces, workshop spaces, staff spaces and had to put a few very close to
your new Range Rovers"

--
-------
# | |
:===[==¬|====;
[/ \|___|_/ \|
\_/ \_/
DavidM djm81NOSPAMatcam.ac.uk

"Tim Hobbs" <tim@101ambulance-urine.net> wrote in message
news:m1a3e09866ks64eummfpasuc7hjnsu6rkn@4ax.com...
> Apologies for the long post...

That's OK, thanks for taking the time.

> You could legally park the aforementioned Land Rover outside the
> dealership with a factually 100% accurate (and provably so)
> description of your grievance in large letters.

The hypothetical dealer is a long way away, unfortunately.

> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).

Keep me posted. I'd like to learn the process.

> Depending on the age of the vehicle you could involve Land Rover
> customer services. An independent engineers report would certainly
> strengthen your case.

Not applicable in this case.

> The key to success in any small legal action is to involve the other
> party in so many annoying costs and other irritations that they find
> it cheaper to settle. When fighting a business there is a good chance
> that the opposition are judging things on pounds and pence, not
> personal pride or desire 'to win'. You may need to escalate it higher
> in the organisation to get that perspective though.

I've been banking on this. I've tried the nice approach and not got far.
I'm now exploring alternatives.

> I've had a lot of success with formal letter writing (recently winning
> a refund from a major electronics retailer for a duff hi-fi component
> plus a climb-down from a motor insurer on my sister's behalf). Don't
> ever conduct these matters by phone - it's too easy for people to hear
> what they want to hear and renege later.

I've been emailing, as it happens. Still a papertrail in place though.

> Always end the letter by making a positive suggestion to 'bring the
> matter to a mutually agreeable close' (i.e. "you can get rid of me if
> you say yes to this"), pointing out that you will apportion no blame
> and make no public statement about the whole affair. Perhaps aim for
> compensation in some other form than cash - perhaps some parts or a
> free service or something. That way the employee at the dealer
> doesn't have to justify a credit note to his boss, but can instead
> brag to his colleagues about how he fobbed you off with a free service
> that costs them sod all anyway.

Funnily enough, this is exactly the tack I've taken. But they're not
playing ball.

> It's also worth putting some semi-formal sentences in their - e.g.
> head every letter with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' and statements like "I
> don't feel that you have exercised 'reasonably skill and care'" - the
> message will be "Oh Christ, his best mate is a lawyer". Lawyer mates
> are much more worrying than paid lawyers, because they go on forever
> on nil-cost personal crusades for their friends.
>
> And don't play all your cards in the first letter. You want to keep
> something back, so you can write to them every single week until they
> get fed up of you. There is also a general fear of Watchdog and
> Trading Standards amongst retailers, which you could allude to.

That's true, I could call my Watchdog connections... Might be worth
mentioning!

Thanks Tim.
David

As they are franchised dealers it would be interesting to see what Lode Lane
would say about it, especially as Ford seems hell bent on knackering LR UK
!!
Copy and send all your correspondance to HQ with a note to said dealer's CEO

"David French" <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:40e1a500$0$4593$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> ...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had
cost
> IRO £800.
>
> And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem
with
> the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that
this
> second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
> original work which had led to the second problem.
>
> Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
> dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting
any
> form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>
> What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
> repair, and what would the process involve?
>
> Thanks,
> David
>
>

in article m1a3e09866ks64eummfpasuc7hjnsu6rkn@4ax.com, Tim Hobbs at
tim@101ambulance-urine.net wrote on 29/6/04 6:48 pm:

> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:21:03 +0100, "David French"
> <david.not.spam.french@virgin.net> wrote:
>
>> ...say I'd had some work done on a vehicle, by a Main Dealer, which had cost
>> IRO £800.
>>
>> And let's assume that subsequently, another Main Dealer found a problem with
>> the work that had been done which then cost another £173.88. And that this
>> second main dealer was of the firm opinion that it was inadequacies in the
>> original work which had led to the second problem.
>>
>> Now let's also assume, hypothetically, that I'd gone back to the first
>> dealer to recoup the cost of this repair, and had had no luck in getting any
>> form of compensation from them over 5 months of discussion.
>>
>> What would be my recourse to the first dealer to recover the costs of the
>> repair, and what would the process involve?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> David
>>
>
> Apologies for the long post...
>
> You could legally park the aforementioned Land Rover outside the
> dealership with a factually 100% accurate (and provably so)
> description of your grievance in large letters.
>
> You could instigate a claim via the small claims court (I'm going to
> be doing this myself tomorrow, which will be a good learning process).
>
> Depending on the age of the vehicle you could involve Land Rover
> customer services. An independent engineers report would certainly
> strengthen your case.
>
> The key to success in any small legal action is to involve the other
> party in so many annoying costs and other irritations that they find
> it cheaper to settle. When fighting a business there is a good chance
> that the opposition are judging things on pounds and pence, not
> personal pride or desire 'to win'. You may need to escalate it higher
> in the organisation to get that perspective though.
>
> I've had a lot of success with formal letter writing (recently winning
> a refund from a major electronics retailer for a duff hi-fi component
> plus a climb-down from a motor insurer on my sister's behalf). Don't
> ever conduct these matters by phone - it's too easy for people to hear
> what they want to hear and renege later.
>
> Always end the letter by making a positive suggestion to 'bring the
> matter to a mutually agreeable close' (i.e. "you can get rid of me if
> you say yes to this"), pointing out that you will apportion no blame
> and make no public statement about the whole affair. Perhaps aim for
> compensation in some other form than cash - perhaps some parts or a
> free service or something. That way the employee at the dealer
> doesn't have to justify a credit note to his boss, but can instead
> brag to his colleagues about how he fobbed you off with a free service
> that costs them sod all anyway.
>
> It's also worth putting some semi-formal sentences in their - e.g.
> head every letter with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' and statements like "I
> don't feel that you have exercised 'reasonably skill and care'" - the
> message will be "Oh Christ, his best mate is a lawyer". Lawyer mates
> are much more worrying than paid lawyers, because they go on forever
> on nil-cost personal crusades for their friends.
>
> And don't play all your cards in the first letter. You want to keep
> something back, so you can write to them every single week until they
> get fed up of you. There is also a general fear of Watchdog and
> Trading Standards amongst retailers, which you could allude to.
>
> HTH
>
Have just gone through something similar with the Maytag american washing
machine we bought a couple of years ago. After four or five breakdowns in
the first year which ended in a new motor, the replacement lasted less than
three months. I have just had the second motor fitted, after numerous phone
calls and the only result I had was after I wrote a letter saying how
disappointed I was in their product and their service and that if I didn't
hear from them within seven days that I would be contacting a
solicitor/trading standards.

I recieved a phone call from them and had a new motor fitted within two
weeks of the letter and have a full 5 year extended warranty with the motor.
I did have to pay a company to fit the motor, but that is only because I
refused to have the original engineer who had been to repair it fit it
because as far as we were concerned he was unable to do his job properly,
for various reasons, one of which was his rude and obnoxious attitude.

Its ages since I've been through the business of small claims, but a letter
giving them 7 days to reply before you take matters further is usually what
you have to do first. Send it registered post so it has to be signed for or
hand deliver the letter.
--
Nikki

1990 Discovery V8i
1985 Range Rover V8
1975 88" Series III 2.25 petrol
1979 Series III Lightweight 2.25 petrol