vihippo

vihippo

Member
Hello everyone! Seems like there is a lot of great help on here!

Just got a replacement transmission for my 04 SE3 NAS model and the mechanics called me up saying it's missing pins 3&4 on the External Harness?

It looks like pins 3&4 where never there???? Could this be from an 05?
I checked RAVE and I can't figure this mystery out. I'll post pics - I have to hitchhike to get to the mechanic shop and back.

I confirmed the VIN numbers 3-4 times even called a dealer in Florida and had them confirm again. They match up.

There is no local dealer here so I'm not sure what to do at this point.

Not being a transmission specialist - the mechanics will not open it up to have a look, but are willing to put the new one on there.

I'm trying to figure out what to do here.
Here try to return the transmission and order another... or swap out the sensor and external harness assembly?

Any info would be great! I've got diagrams of the JATCO and wiring harness from RAVE.
 
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Hi and welcome. What's up with the transmission? What are the symptoms? When was the fluid last changed?
Hippo will be along in a bit, he's done lots of research on the Jatco box.
 
Nodge68 said:
Hi and welcome. What's up with the transmission? What are the symptoms? When was the fluid last changed?
Hippo will be along in a bit, he's done lots of research on the Jatco box.
Click to expand...

Thanks at ton!!!!
Well symptoms it's a loooong story - car is shifting very rough and will Fault in limper mode if the car is cold. If we let the car warm up to regular temps it works.. ok...not great but ok. And reverse is fine.
We took it to a local mechanic and they said the transmission is def going - due to reverse being fine with the car is cold.
The truck has 120k on it so it's understandable.

The mechanic shop would not order a transmission, but said if I find one they will put it in and it would be around 16hrs labor.

My wife and I bought a transmission for a reputable company on eBay and had it freighted down to where we live.
The transmission arrived in good shape. VIN says it only has 50k on it.

The mechanics took off our old transmission and went to install the new and noticed the pin 3&$ were missing from the "new" transmissions external transmission harness.

They refused to open it up to see if the Intermediate Speed Sensor is even in there. I'm at a loss on what to do.
I'm going to hitchhike back to the shop and take pictures of the connectors to send to the company I bought the tranny from.
I will post them when I return.

I know this is a long story but this is where we stand. I'm not 100% sure I'm even getting a straight story about the pins "missing" that could mean a lot of things ( damaged, grown over, never there to begin with , x-files???)

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I may have to hassle this company to return the transmission!
 
If the pins are for the intermediate speed sensor the later vehicles deleted this from memory as it was unreliable and caused issues.
 
td4van said:
If the pins are for the intermediate speed sensor the later vehicles deleted this from memory as it was unreliable and caused issues.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! It is for the intermediate speed sensor.

My old transmission has the pins and the new one does not.

Does this mean the new transmission will not work with the computer in my car?
Or is it safe to install the newer transmission?

Thank you so much for your help! We do not have a landrover dealer where I live and any parts have to be freighted here.
 
Pictures...

Plugged up Pins 3 & 4
plugged-pins.jpg


Other side of connector
missing-pins.jpg



inside the new pan
inside-pan.jpg


New Tranny next to my wife's new shoes... After all I had to make her happy somehow during this whole process ;)
thewholeshibbang.jpg
 
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vihippo said:
Does this mean the new transmission will not work with the computer in my car?
Or is it safe to install the newer transmission?

Thank you so much for your help! We do not have a landrover dealer where I live and any parts have to be freighted here.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your help. I spoke with 2 different LR dealerships and another LR parts specialist guy I've previously purchased a radiaotr from today and they did not know anything of this.

1) Would it still be ok to use this with my 04 SE3 that still has the intermittent speed sensor pins?

2) if not could I simply purchase a newer / matching transmission control computer unit as it would be easier and less expensive?

They are around 150.00 on ebay which is much cheaper than trying to ship a transmission back to the states and have another sent down.
 
Not sure if that would work but did you call Ashcroft transmission in the uk for advice ? They did tons of these and they might help a bit over the phone.

Was the transmission producing any error codes on the code reader ?
 
That was also piston failures in the jatco in transmission of those years. it happened to mine costly repair when the transmission has to be taken out I did not do it myself)

I read that the jatco is the same as the Wolkswagen and Mazda. I have not spent a lot of time checking that out

My notes:
VW calls the Jatco a "09A" 5sp Tiptronic

2002+ Land Rover Freelander
Land Rover calls the jatco what it is "JF506E"

2002-? Mazda MPV 5f31j
2003-? Mazda 6 5f31j
Mazda calls the jatco a "5f31j"



Here is a link on someone listing the parts for replacing the pistons for a jatco in a Mazda


http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=25151
 
vihippo said:
The mechanic shop would not order a transmission, but said if I find one they will put it in and it would be around 16hrs labor.
Click to expand...

:eek: 16 hours of labor?? I have never owned a freelander so I do not have any ideas about its anatomy. One thing I do know for sure is that being quoted 16 hours labor for a transmission swap is a bit much. A discovery has much bigger and heavier running gear but its never taken me more than half a day to complete any job in the driveway at home, from removing the transmission to replace a cracked flexplate to swapping out the front axle.
Anyway, best of luck and I hope you get your hippo running again soon.;)
 
Thanks for all the responses.
I've emailed Dave at Aschroft.

The car was throwing a bunch of error codes: p1422 p1477 p2071 and p0303
gone into F4 dashboard lit up etc.

Thanks for all the links, seems like the same transmissions been used for Mazda, Ford, VW, Jaguar, Rover etc. All of them seem to be experiencing issues. Mines been good for 10 years but once we finally figured out the IRD had gone bad I guess it messed up the transmission as well. I should probably check out the VCU as well.
 
ifloochies said:
:eek: 16 hours of labor?? I have never owned a freelander so I do not have any ideas about its anatomy. One thing I do know for sure is that being quoted 16 hours labor for a transmission swap is a bit much. A discovery has much bigger and heavier running gear but its never taken me more than half a day to complete any job in the driveway at home, from removing the transmission to replace a cracked flexplate to swapping out the front axle.
Anyway, best of luck and I hope you get your hippo running again soon.;)
Click to expand...

I know... we had a "discussion" with the shop manager yesterday.
 
Just confirmed that the old transmission has indeed lived it's full life. No chips but bad smelling oil.

Found this info on another forum that further explains things for anyone else that might be scratching there head wondering what to do.

posted by "zedcars"
The transmission went through a number of serious modifications until 2004 when a reprogrammed ECM was specified together with transmission internal mods. It sits next to the engine ECM in the battery box area.

The biggest problem was porous pistons in the Jatco transmission and that was part of a campaign change here in the USA.
The service issues are engine/power pack grounds (earths) and communication down the two control cables which can be found near the radiator where the break sockets are held in round clip on clamps. If you scroll down this forum you can find a diagram of the pin outs posted by a fellow ALRU contributor.
Click to expand...
 
vihippo said:
Thanks for all the responses.
I've emailed Dave at Aschroft.

The car was throwing a bunch of error codes: p1422 p1477 p2071 and p0303
gone into F4 dashboard lit up etc.
.
Click to expand...

From:
TECHNICAL INFORMATION - KV6 Variable Intake Manifold System - (VIS) Motor Diagnostic Aid

Available here:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/attac...99677-v6-inlet-manifold-rattle-vis_motors.pdf


P1477
Variable Intake
Manifold Actuator 2
–Circuit Low
Voltage: Short
Circuit to
Ground/Open Circuit
or No Signal

P2071
Intake Manifold
Tuning (IMT)
Valve Stuck
Closed: Short
Circuit to V Battery

It looks like both of you VIS motors have issues. This makes noise, might reduce performance in some RPM range, but has nothing to do with the transmission.
 
zefrench said:
From:
TECHNICAL INFORMATION - KV6 Variable Intake Manifold System - (VIS) Motor Diagnostic Aid

Available here:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/attac...99677-v6-inlet-manifold-rattle-vis_motors.pdf


P1477
Variable Intake
Manifold Actuator 2
–Circuit Low
Voltage: Short
Circuit to
Ground/Open Circuit
or No Signal

P2071
Intake Manifold
Tuning (IMT)
Valve Stuck
Closed: Short
Circuit to V Battery

It looks like both of you VIS motors have issues. This makes noise, might reduce performance in some RPM range, but has nothing to do with the transmission.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.
Also P0303 is a misfire code for cylinder 3. This would indicate a plug, coil or injector fault.
Is you workshop using Test book (T4)?
If not they need to be using an equivalent to T4. Simple OBD2 codes won't help with transmission faults.
Would it not be easier to fix your current transmission? 100K + miles isn't much to condemn it. Most parts are available to mail order. The piston often cracks but doesn't require transmission removal to replace, same with the solenoid valves. Reverse brake band requires the main casing to be split but as reverse works that doesn't appear to need doing. The Jatco box doesn't like old or dirty fluid. It's best changed at 60K miles.
 
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Regarding the missing pins:


Wolkswagen calls this
"Intermediate Shaft Speed sensor G265"


If you look here
TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Jatco Transmission problem


There is a picture about this sensor.


They also say this:
"There is also an "Intermediate Shaft Speed sensor G265" which generates a signal corresponding to the # of teeth on spur gear A at the torque output of planetary gears I & II. The TCM uses this signal to determine the opening & closing times of the clutches (failure will cause harsh gearshifts & stationary decoupling function will be deactivated)"


So the next question is the one you had previously. Would replacing the transmission ECM resolve this issue?
 
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If you look here

https://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM004.html

It has pin outs for the Transmission ECM.

It shows pin 21 as the Intermediate sensor.


I do not recall if the transmission ECM has to paired with the main car ECU.


Anyone have access to the Land Rover service bulletins?


To read codes off your old transmission, an alternative to a T4 diagnostic Scanner is to find an independent with Rovacom or Autologic or Hawkeye diagnostic unit.
 
Freelander - automatic gearbox problems ?

In here zedcar says its best to match a transmission with its ECM, and he says post 2004 Transmissions and ECM are the best.

Maybe pm him on the other forum?

Let us know what you find, this is really important to anyone looking to eventually change the transmission from another from the scrap yard. (That is basically all our situation on this side of the ocean)
 
zefrench said:
If you look here

https://www.blackbox-solutions.com/shop/help/SM004.html

It has pin outs for the Transmission ECM.

It shows pin 21 as the Intermediate sensor.


I do not recall if the transmission ECM has to paired with the main car ECU.


Anyone have access to the Land Rover service bulletins?


To read codes off your old transmission, an alternative to a T4 diagnostic Scanner is to find an independent with Rovacom or Autologic or Hawkeye diagnostic unit.
Click to expand...

As far as I know the transmission ECU isn't paired to the engine ECU but they do communicate.

Here in the UK transmission ECUs can be found on ebay for very little money, possibly because they don't generally fail. Lots of seller's are happy to quote for world wide shipping.

Here's an example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a70c4fe97
 
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