Lel
Member
I'm avoiding the Discovery 3 due to all the electronics that can go wrong but by comparison the TD5 is a plain Jane.
I'm more thinking about reliability, mpg, torque etc.
I prefer the dash on the TD5 but that alone is not a good reason to go for it.
With a budget of £8,000 I'm thinking I'll get a little more for my money with the 300 but I have also seen TD5 sell within my budget so.....
Who ever said choices are good needs a slap
I'm more thinking about reliability, mpg, torque etc.
I prefer the dash on the TD5 but that alone is not a good reason to go for it.
With a budget of £8,000 I'm thinking I'll get a little more for my money with the 300 but I have also seen TD5 sell within my budget so.....
Who ever said choices are good needs a slap
I've just done around 60000 miles in my TD5 and so far it's been good. During that time it has needed a couple of injector looms, due to oil contamination, and I've replaced the injector washers and the fanbelt. It was also off the road for a few weeks with a hard to trace problem which turned out to be to do with the ECU, immobiliser and main wiring loom, but this wasn't the fault of the engine per se. Oh yes, there was a leaky fuel pressure regulator which I replaced. Last time I had the rocker cover off, there appeared to be a little bit of roughness on some of the cam followers, but not too bad for an engine with nearly 90,000 miles on it.
Machining isn't recommended for TD5 engines, so no rebores, regrinds, head skimming and the like, though some people have claimed to do so successfully. Pretty much all you can do is keep changing the oil and filters. Additional life can be squeezed out of a worn engine by replacing bearing shells, piston rings and related components, and there are some people on here (Bennehboy and Markomate) who have written about it and provided lots of pictures.
Other common faults include the sprocket on the chain driven oil pump coming off, and the exhaust manifold warping. Cylinder head gaskets appear to be a weak point and there are occasional complaints of cylinder heads themselves cracking or becoming porous.
Now mine's likely to pass the 100,000 mile mark in the next year or so I'm thinking about succession planning. I'm wondering whether to get a secondhand engine and replace the worn components at my leisure, so it's ready to swap in, or to wait as long as possible and then bend the plastic down at Turner Engineering and get a whole new one. Either way, spares availability is good and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. Plus, some of them seem to soldier on for in excess of 200,000 miles so it may not become urgent for a while yet.
Machining isn't recommended for TD5 engines, so no rebores, regrinds, head skimming and the like, though some people have claimed to do so successfully. Pretty much all you can do is keep changing the oil and filters. Additional life can be squeezed out of a worn engine by replacing bearing shells, piston rings and related components, and there are some people on here (Bennehboy and Markomate) who have written about it and provided lots of pictures.
Other common faults include the sprocket on the chain driven oil pump coming off, and the exhaust manifold warping. Cylinder head gaskets appear to be a weak point and there are occasional complaints of cylinder heads themselves cracking or becoming porous.
Now mine's likely to pass the 100,000 mile mark in the next year or so I'm thinking about succession planning. I'm wondering whether to get a secondhand engine and replace the worn components at my leisure, so it's ready to swap in, or to wait as long as possible and then bend the plastic down at Turner Engineering and get a whole new one. Either way, spares availability is good and likely to remain so for the foreseeable future. Plus, some of them seem to soldier on for in excess of 200,000 miles so it may not become urgent for a while yet.
Grezzer
Well-Known Member
Hi Lel, I've spent the last couple of years building up what I consider a great 300 tdi, it's had a fortune spent and got every upgrade you can think about and yes it's an amazing motor. I have also a TD5 which Is virtually untouched however it is a great motor but as got issues that are very costly compared to the 300. For me if you want a quicker more versatile motor get the TD5 if your happy to plod around at a steady pace etc get a 300. I'll sell you my 300 for a realistic price I've spent upwards of 12000 on it lol.
I think it depends what you want, or need from an engine.
TD5 is "better" on power and torque as standard. is not quite as reliable, and is complex due the common rail electronic injection. you'll need diagnostics, and access to spares, which is not likely a problem in the UK, but might be elsewhere in the world.
300TDi is probably the most reliable engine ever produced by LR, simple to fix more or less anywhere, and parts are readily available too. Most of them will get to 250000 miles without too many problems, IF they are looked after.
whilst power and torque are lower than the TD5, they can be tuned successfully, to about 145HP, without affecting reliability. They can not be tuned to the same extent as the 5, reliably. Its a lot of work, hassle and expense to take a 300 beyond 160HP, and though 200 is supposedly achievable, in the one case I know of, reliability is crap, actually very crap.
SWMBO and I have 300's and will be staying with them. But our experience with electronics on cars is very very very poor.
TD5 is "better" on power and torque as standard. is not quite as reliable, and is complex due the common rail electronic injection. you'll need diagnostics, and access to spares, which is not likely a problem in the UK, but might be elsewhere in the world.
300TDi is probably the most reliable engine ever produced by LR, simple to fix more or less anywhere, and parts are readily available too. Most of them will get to 250000 miles without too many problems, IF they are looked after.
whilst power and torque are lower than the TD5, they can be tuned successfully, to about 145HP, without affecting reliability. They can not be tuned to the same extent as the 5, reliably. Its a lot of work, hassle and expense to take a 300 beyond 160HP, and though 200 is supposedly achievable, in the one case I know of, reliability is crap, actually very crap.
SWMBO and I have 300's and will be staying with them. But our experience with electronics on cars is very very very poor.
julianf
Well-Known Member
Would be interested to read your mod list.
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
electronics... how on earth have modern normal cars for the past 30-40 years managed then... shock
electronics... how on earth have modern normal cars for the past 30-40 years managed then... shock
Lucas - Prince of Darkness ...
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
Could you be more specific, are you looking at Defenders or Discovery's.....?
As far as engines go, the Td5 is dynamically far superior to the Tdi series. Anyone who says otherwise is either blinkered or an idiot (or a bit of both
).If you are looking at Defenders. Then the difference from a 300Tdi to the Td5 model is not vast. Different upper door construction, different fuel tank placement, optional Air con, traction control, electric windows and central locking. But essentially the vehicles are largely the same in design and construction. Body panels seem thinner on Td5 models however.
The Td5 in the Defender is more powerful, smoother and more refined and with more tuning potential and will offer similar mpg. The stock map for the Defender Td5 is quite appalling however. But easily solved.
If you are talking Discovery's, then there is a huge and vast difference between the vehicles. The Disco2 shares almost nothing with the Disco1, so it is way more than just the engine difference.
The D2 is a more matured vehicle. More refined and with better road manners. But it is a more complex vehicle as a result. Some of the Td5's reputation comes from items that have nothing to do with the engine at all.
So if the question is D1 or D2. It largely depends what you are wanting from the vehicle. Both are good, but they are different.
If you are looking at D2's, I highly advise getting one with working ACE (Active Corner Enhancement). This is an active anti roll bar setup and is superb.
I would also highly advise looking at V8 models as well, if your annual mileage is not massive. As a rule you'll usually get more vehicle for your money this way and most V8's tend to be higher spec models.
Lel
Member
It is the Defender I am after and live the idea of a V8 but 10mpg is not cool.
I'm torn between the reliability and cheapness to repair of the 300 and the more refined and more powerful TD5 but seems by the replies both are good for different reasons and so I should be more concerned with overall picture and when I find the right one, not worry too much about which engine..... At least that's the impression I'm getting
I'm torn between the reliability and cheapness to repair of the 300 and the more refined and more powerful TD5 but seems by the replies both are good for different reasons and so I should be more concerned with overall picture and when I find the right one, not worry too much about which engine..... At least that's the impression I'm getting
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
Where did you make 10mpg up from??
Although V8 Defenders are somewhat rarer, so probably not a straight consideration.
Reliability is about equal. As for cost of repair, depends. Yes replacing an entire Td5 engine will be most costly, but hardly the norm. Things like brakes, clutch, bushes etc. are all the same pretty much.
Condition is the most important.but seems by the replies both are good for different reasons and so I should be more concerned with overall picture and when I find the right one, not worry too much about which engine..... At least that's the impression I'm getting
Then spec.
But it's worth noting, every single part of a Defender can be replaced. Although some are easier and cheaper than other parts.
A chassis swap is probably the biggest and most costly thing. Then as per any other vehicle, body and paint repairs. The main bulkhead and footwells are pretty much the only non-chassis parts that suffer rust. Oily bits are all bolt in, so fairly easy to replace.
This means, if you want one with 'x' engine and they are in budget. Then don't buy one with the wrong engine in, unless you plan an engine swap. Which is easy for some models (2.5TD to 200Tdi), but a lot more costly for others (Tdi to Td5).
Lel
Member
The problem is, it's not such a simple choice like it would be if I was deciding between a BMW 1 series and 3 series for instance.
The V8 I was referring to was, I think, a Chevy v8 that I came across when Google researching engines etc.
The D3 has more chance of needing a garage repair where as the Defender has more chance of DIY or mobile mechanic repair from what I seem to be reading hence the cost to repair differences.
The V8 I was referring to was, I think, a Chevy v8 that I came across when Google researching engines etc.
The D3 has more chance of needing a garage repair where as the Defender has more chance of DIY or mobile mechanic repair from what I seem to be reading hence the cost to repair differences.
Marmaduke
Well-Known Member
Personally I'd look at chassis and bulkhead condition over engine fitted galvanised both would be a higher priority for me than number of cylinders. It's a tratterIt is the Defender I am after and live the idea of a V8 but 10mpg is not cool.
I'm torn between the reliability and cheapness to repair of the 300 and the more refined and more powerful TD5 but seems by the replies both are good for different reasons and so I should be more concerned with overall picture and when I find the right one, not worry too much about which engine..... At least that's the impression I'm getting
300bhp/ton
Well-Known Member
I agree on chassis and bulk head condition. Just bear in mind, if it does have a galv chassis, then it has been subject to a full rebuild. This is good, but also comes with a warning. As you'll probably want to inspect others things a bit closer. To see how well it's been put back together and what other parts have been used.
Again, not complex and the Defender is ideal for this, as it's such a simple construction.
Again, not complex and the Defender is ideal for this, as it's such a simple construction.
