wireman
Well-Known Member
If you want to change it's taxation class to 'Historic'. You need to tax it at the same time. That means you need to have it insured and MOTd (hence - on the road). HOWEVER if it is over 40 years old then it may be MOT exempt (providing it is not substantially modified - but that's another story), so if you declare the vehicle MOT exempt using V112 and apply for a tax disc, using V10 and send off your V5 for updating then technically you don't have to have the vehicle on the road to change the class. Clear as mud!
Scalleys Dad
Active Member
One of the thrills of January is the arrival of the brown letter with the V11Z in it, a thirty second flirt on line with www.gov and vehicle tax sorted without handing over any cash. However, as with many others I expect, that cash soon goes on something to keep her on the road. It’s the big 5 0 in February. Nice cake, some fizz or just half a tank of diesel with a redex top.
6pot
Well-Known Member
This is one of the few tangible jobs I have got done on mine recently and it was easier then I thought - decided it was best to just try it.
Yes you need an MOT to get taxed so that is the deciding factor. Mine was over 40 years old and did not have an MOT and the tax class can only be changed when taxing at the post office, so I went and presented the V5C completed in the changes section, with a completed V112. Was given a receipt for tax purchased (£0.00) and the V5C was retained. They were not interested in the V112 and took the V5C for updating based on the vehicle age being over 40 alone.
Some time later I received the new V5C showing Historic tax class with no questions asked. It was not on the road and could have been in bits for all anyone cared.
The V112 was described as 'between me and the DVLA' whatever that means, so I posted it to them anyway for their records. I was advised at the post office to keep a copy of the V112 in the vehicle in case needed but this is by no means necessary.
I enquired out of interest if putting it on SORN and re-taxing online was the same process as before and was told 'why bother, the tax is zero anyway'. So it has remained taxed ever since, even though it hasn't moved...
Yes you need an MOT to get taxed so that is the deciding factor. Mine was over 40 years old and did not have an MOT and the tax class can only be changed when taxing at the post office, so I went and presented the V5C completed in the changes section, with a completed V112. Was given a receipt for tax purchased (£0.00) and the V5C was retained. They were not interested in the V112 and took the V5C for updating based on the vehicle age being over 40 alone.
Some time later I received the new V5C showing Historic tax class with no questions asked. It was not on the road and could have been in bits for all anyone cared.
The V112 was described as 'between me and the DVLA' whatever that means, so I posted it to them anyway for their records. I was advised at the post office to keep a copy of the V112 in the vehicle in case needed but this is by no means necessary.
I enquired out of interest if putting it on SORN and re-taxing online was the same process as before and was told 'why bother, the tax is zero anyway'. So it has remained taxed ever since, even though it hasn't moved...
barleywine
Well-Known Member
Do you not have to be careful that if you need insurance if vehicle not sorn?
ie. insurance expires, vehicle off road but still taxed needs to be sorn as DVLA assume it is still on road?
ie. insurance expires, vehicle off road but still taxed needs to be sorn as DVLA assume it is still on road?
Scalleys Dad
Active Member
As with many things insurance can be a b#gger. When filling in the online tax forms the MoT box is quite simple in that the owner declares whether the vehicle is MoT exempt based the vehicle has no significant changes to it. When this first came in I asked the question if a vertical exhaust was classed as a major change based on the fact that it was a practical solution to road humps taking out the old stylii baffle box time and again. At first it was classed as a significant change and historic status would not apply. I appealed and it was allowed. Hurrah no more MoT’s, although she would currently pass one, and no more tax, although as said previously the money is easily spent on something else. The key thing with insurance is that a mate of mine declared his Landy exempt with a simple swipe on the online form but when he had a relatively minor bump a few months later it turned out that changes he had made, like springs and a ‘foreign’ engine, were substantial changes and as such an MoT was required. Last I saw of him he was in a bit of trouble with the rozzers.
6pot
Well-Known Member
In theory yes, it should be insured if not SORN. It would be easy to SORN and then re-tax later at £zero online, despite the advice I was given to just leave it taxed because there is no cost but it is worth considering that you would want your Landy insured whether taxed or not, surely?
If it's in a million pieces and not really insurable you can tax it in the process of changing the tax class as described, if over 40 years old so you don't need an MOT to do so, then SORN it again straight away.
As a case study, long story short, my 'other' car was taxed, MOTd and insured, failed the MOT twice then broke down on the way back. I managed to nurse it back eventually so it was in the local garage with tax and insurance but no MOT. Waiting parts I let the insurance lapse so when finally fixed I had it brought back home on a recovery truck and it sat like that for a while with tax only and I had no issues with the lack of insurance. When tax ran out I SORNd it and recently I've insured it again with no tax or MOT... confused? we'll see if it gets through the MOT this time...
6pot
Well-Known Member
I think the moral of the story is not to risk serious trouble just to save having to get MOTs.
Since the exemption is self-cert, the onus is on the vehicle owner to know what they are doing and tell the truth. There is a points based system of what constitutes original or modified and if in doubt get it checked or keep getting MOTs (or appeal, as you did successfully).
The rozzers will still do you if you are MOT exempt but unroadworthy and there is a warning to that effect on the gov webpage concerned. Likewise a vehicle will be found out for being modified when declared not modified if there is any cause such as a bump or other police stop so will be found out for having no MOT when it should have, which is an offence.
It's not worth the risk.
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Dr Strangeglove
Well-Known Member
Is historic vehicle based upon build date or registration date?
wireman
Well-Known Member
Build date. Some Land Rovers aren't registered for years after being built. Ex military ones are a good example. Your V5 logbook should have your date of manufacture on it. If not or you think it's wrong, you can get a Heritage Certificate from Gaydon Museum.
Dr Strangeglove
Well-Known Member
Many thanks. I think my build date and first registration are only a few months apart, so not a huge difference. My defender is a K reg but built in 1992.
My thoughts are more on the avoidance of the daily emissions tax. I am currently on the border of greater Manchester so I am dreading that coming in. No doubt Lancashire will jump on the bandwagon soon.
I should have known really as I used to have a tax exempt range rover that was registered on 3rd Jan 1973, but was allowed historic status as it was assumed built in 72 (this is before it started a rolling year again).
Thanks for your help - only 10 years to go!!
Mick
Scalleys Dad
Active Member
6Pot. I asked around last night and the story is this chap has been nabbed on no MoT and subsequently void insurance. I don’t know about the tax element as yet. What a plonker….. as they say in some circles. I
Wildefalcon
Well-Known Member
My 109 was registered first in December '81. Does it qualify for historic tax now? I don't understand the guidance on the government website.
Dr Strangeglove
Well-Known Member
It should do. I have not done it myself as mine is not old enough, but I am sure if you do a search it will give guidance. Good luck with it.
wireman
Well-Known Member
It has to be OVER 40 years old before you can apply, in the April following its 40th birthday IIRC. So 10 weeks time.
Dr Strangeglove
Well-Known Member
Poo - I have just seen the "40 years old prior to 1st April" requirement. That will mean mine is not eligible till April 2033!!! That's six months lost to tax.
Scalleys Dad
Active Member
MoT exemption, subject to no major alterations and self declaration that it has none, kicks in as well so more pounds in the bank to keep her on the road and roadworthy. In my case mere loose change of late sadly. Getting a tax reminder with ‘Historic vehicle £0.00’ on it always makes me smile.
