Dougal wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6072456.stm

Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit is
clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is complaining that it
is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey the Highway Code. Not
rocket science really. How many times have you wished that you had an
Exocet ready to launch at the tosser in front of you who has decided
that it's OK for him to start indicating (if you are lucky) his illegal
right turn as the lights turn to green in the ahead only lane?

Or what about those who can't use lane one on a motorway because that's
the 'slow lane'????

Nurse, where's me copy of The Telegraph? ;-{)}

> Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit is
> clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is complaining that it
> is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey the Highway Code. Not
> rocket science really. How many times have you wished that you had an
> Exocet ready to launch at the tosser in front of you who has decided
> that it's OK for him to start indicating (if you are lucky) his illegal
> right turn as the lights turn to green in the ahead only lane?
>
> Or what about those who can't use lane one on a motorway because that's
> the 'slow lane'????
>
> Nurse, where's me copy of The Telegraph? ;-{)}
>
>

Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Trouble is where does
it stop ? Speed cameras are a good idea if used to slow traffic; many
councils are now using them as a revenue earner.
All depends how the sytem is applied and if it is used with common sense in
mind or profit in mind.

Watched Terminator some time ago; seems the basic idea was war against
machines and machines were winning. I wonder how long before we put up with
not instant fines but being zapped by some electronoics that disable the car
( being tried in US ). Clamping is bad enough, dont lets get to the state
where some tw..t gorilla is liscenced by council to do as he pleases with
these devices.

I wonder if George Orwell got his dates mixed up with "1984" ?

"Hirsty's" <magnum.458@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:OUr_g.789$76.739@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>
>> Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit is
>> clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is complaining that it
>> is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey the Highway Code. Not
>> rocket science really. How many times have you wished that you had an
>> Exocet ready to launch at the tosser in front of you who has decided
>> that it's OK for him to start indicating (if you are lucky) his illegal
>> right turn as the lights turn to green in the ahead only lane?
>>
>> Or what about those who can't use lane one on a motorway because that's
>> the 'slow lane'????
>>
>> Nurse, where's me copy of The Telegraph? ;-{)}
>>
>>
>
> Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Trouble is where does
> it stop ? Speed cameras are a good idea if used to slow traffic; many
> councils are now using them as a revenue earner.
> All depends how the sytem is applied and if it is used with common sense
> in
> mind or profit in mind.
>
> Watched Terminator some time ago; seems the basic idea was war against
> machines and machines were winning. I wonder how long before we put up
> with
> not instant fines but being zapped by some electronoics that disable the
> car
> ( being tried in US ). Clamping is bad enough, dont lets get to the state
> where some tw..t gorilla is liscenced by council to do as he pleases with
> these devices.
>
> I wonder if George Orwell got his dates mixed up with "1984" ?
>
>

I agree, anyone blocking a box junction deserves what they get. Follow the
rules of the road and you will be OK. I hope it catches the idiots who
persist on going through a green light even though the exit is blocked due
to traffic, and then block the crossroads when your lights turn to green!

Cyberwraith wrote:

|| "Hirsty's" <magnum.458@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
|| news:OUr_g.789$76.739@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
|||
|||| Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit
|||| is clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is
|||| complaining that it is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey
|||| the Highway Code. Not rocket science really. How many times have
|||| you wished that you had an Exocet ready to launch at the tosser in
|||| front of you who has decided that it's OK for him to start
|||| indicating (if you are lucky) his illegal right turn as the lights
|||| turn to green in the ahead only lane?
||||
|||| Or what about those who can't use lane one on a motorway because
|||| that's the 'slow lane'????
||||
|||| Nurse, where's me copy of The Telegraph? ;-{)}
||||
||||
|||
||| Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Trouble is
||| where does it stop ? Speed cameras are a good idea if used to slow
||| traffic; many councils are now using them as a revenue earner.
||| All depends how the sytem is applied and if it is used with common
||| sense in
||| mind or profit in mind.
|||
||| Watched Terminator some time ago; seems the basic idea was war
||| against machines and machines were winning. I wonder how long
||| before we put up with
||| not instant fines but being zapped by some electronoics that
||| disable the car
||| ( being tried in US ). Clamping is bad enough, dont lets get to the
||| state where some tw..t gorilla is liscenced by council to do as he
||| pleases with these devices.
|||
||| I wonder if George Orwell got his dates mixed up with "1984" ?
|||
|||
||
|| I agree, anyone blocking a box junction deserves what they get.
|| Follow the rules of the road and you will be OK. I hope it catches
|| the idiots who persist on going through a green light even though
|| the exit is blocked due to traffic, and then block the crossroads
|| when your lights turn to green!

I agree with the sentiments above. It's good if we all stick to the Highway
Code and keep to speed limits. What worries me is the sheer bloody effort
they are putting into all this traffic enforcement stuff. There was
something in the news the other day (sorry, can't remember the source) about
the Govt planning a massive crackdown on motoring offences. FFS why? Have
motorists suddenly got militant in the last 5 years and need stamping down?
We're told we are more of a target than ever before for Al Qaeda, gun crime
is running out of control, some of our sink estates are becoming no-go
areas, hospital trusts are going broke, schools are falling down (add more
from your own list) - and what? The Govt is going to have an extra big push
on box sodding junctions. Where is the sense of proportion?

The more things go wrong for this Govt, the more they seem to need a few
quick wins, and the poor old motorist is the easiest target.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

On 2006-10-21, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I agree, anyone blocking a box junction deserves what they
> get. Follow the rules of the road and you will be OK. I hope it
> catches the idiots who persist on going through a green light even
> though the exit is blocked due to traffic, and then block the
> crossroads when your lights turn to green!

Wait at a junction, ambulance comes along, get out of the way, get a
penalty! It's already happening with bus lane cameras and you'll be
damned lucky to avoid the fine.

Also in multi-lane traffic across a junction, someone in the lane next
to you realises that they don't have a space to move into but that
you are heading for a space, so they knick your space, result, you get
a fine and fat chance of an appeal.

Lots of other similar things. This is robotic judge and jury and we
need a little less of it thanks.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On or around Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:28:39 +0100, Richard <nowhere@nouse.net>
enlightened us thusly:

>Dougal wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6072456.stm
>
>Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit is
>clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is complaining that it
>is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey the Highway Code. Not
>rocket science really.

Yeah, I've got more time for this than speed cameras.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1

"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnejkqha.ljp.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...

> Wait at a junction, ambulance comes along, get out of the way, get a
> penalty! It's already happening with bus lane cameras and you'll be
> damned lucky to avoid the fine.
>
> Also in multi-lane traffic across a junction, someone in the lane next
> to you realises that they don't have a space to move into but that
> you are heading for a space, so they knick your space, result, you get
> a fine and fat chance of an appeal.
>
> Lots of other similar things. This is robotic judge and jury and we
> need a little less of it thanks.

Agreed, and there's another far more likely problem, the quote is "enforcing
box junctions "seriously" had cut congestion by between 10 and 20%. " which
I suspect is total and utter bollocks!.

If I knew there was a camera at a box junction I would indeed follow the
rules to the letter, I would wait patiently behind the line until the car in
front had not only cleared it but left enough room for me to be certain not
to get stuck. The car behind me would also be stationary and when I moved
off could only move forward one space and stop to wait until I had also
cleared. Assuming we all follow the rules to the letter this would reduce
the capacity of a junction to about one car every 8-10 seconds per lane and
cause any busy town to grid lock.

Box junctions work now because people make judgement calls that the traffic
in front is moving and likely to do so for long enough for them to get
through, so they keep moving, but at the small risk of getting stuck. A
camera can't, or won't for financial reasons, differentiate between this
accidental situation and a deliberate violation so people will play cautious
and traffic will grind to a halt.

A similar situation occurs around here because they have a camera on a level
crossing, it sounds sensible because of the tits who will swerve around the
barriers, but the reality is that the amber lights change to red after less
than 3 seconds so it's very, very easy to be caught on the red. The result
is that people either crawl through it and hold up traffic or they keep
going as speed (it's a wide open 60 road) and if they see an amber they do
an emergency stop. It's become just another tax on the unwary that's
actually making the roads more dangerous.

Greg

Personally I reckon the UK has some of the best and most
courteous drivers around. I had n't driven in the UK for
at least 25 years and last year had a 3 month stint, I could
n't believe how good people were at obeying road rules,
letting vehicles into traffic flows, etc. It was a pleasure driving
there again. The further South I went in Europe the less
obliging were the manners and the more flagrant abuse of
the road rules. The French seem to think hazard flashers
are "a park anywhere I like indicator".

Why the hell the UK Government would waste its time on
something like that beats me. They'd do a better road safety
job of nicking all the irresponsible parents with kids sitting
on their laps in the front seats of cars. I could n't believe how
many kids we saw unbuckled and roaming around cars.

Roger wrote:

|| Personally I reckon the UK has some of the best and most
|| courteous drivers around. <snip>
|| Why the hell the UK Government would waste its time on
|| something like that beats me.

Absolutely. We have one of the lowest (if not *the* lowest, depending on
how you measure it) rates of road casualties in the world. Any sensible
Govt would be concentrating all its efforts on the many much more serious
threats to our health and well-being, such as the terrorist threat for one.
The fact that our Govt seems to have the motorist as Public Enemy No 1
suggests two things to me:

1. An easy and reliable source of revenue
2. Softening up public opinion in advance of a longer-term political aim.

Being less cynical, and giving them the fullest benefit of the doubt, it
looks like the old socialist belief in the perfectability of human beings -
every time you see something you don't like, enact a law about it, and
eventually things will be perfect.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.

Richard Brookman wrote:
> Cyberwraith wrote:
>
>>> "Hirsty's" <magnum.458@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:OUr_g.789$76.739@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
>>>>
>>>>> Do you not think that not entering box junctions unless your exit
>>>>> is clear should be enforeced? The chap from the RAC is
>>>>> complaining that it is a gravy train, the solution is easy: obey
>>>>> the Highway Code. Not rocket science really. How many times have
>>>>> you wished that you had an Exocet ready to launch at the tosser in
>>>>> front of you who has decided that it's OK for him to start
>>>>> indicating (if you are lucky) his illegal right turn as the lights
>>>>> turn to green in the ahead only lane?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or what about those who can't use lane one on a motorway because
>>>>> that's the 'slow lane'????
>>>>>
>>>>> Nurse, where's me copy of The Telegraph? ;-{)}
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. Trouble is
>>>> where does it stop ? Speed cameras are a good idea if used to slow
>>>> traffic; many councils are now using them as a revenue earner.
>>>> All depends how the sytem is applied and if it is used with common
>>>> sense in
>>>> mind or profit in mind.
>>>>
>>>> Watched Terminator some time ago; seems the basic idea was war
>>>> against machines and machines were winning. I wonder how long
>>>> before we put up with
>>>> not instant fines but being zapped by some electronoics that
>>>> disable the car
>>>> ( being tried in US ). Clamping is bad enough, dont lets get to the
>>>> state where some tw..t gorilla is liscenced by council to do as he
>>>> pleases with these devices.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if George Orwell got his dates mixed up with "1984" ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree, anyone blocking a box junction deserves what they get.
>>> Follow the rules of the road and you will be OK. I hope it catches
>>> the idiots who persist on going through a green light even though
>>> the exit is blocked due to traffic, and then block the crossroads
>>> when your lights turn to green!
>
> I agree with the sentiments above. It's good if we all stick to the
> Highway Code and keep to speed limits. What worries me is the sheer
> bloody effort they are putting into all this traffic enforcement
> stuff. There was something in the news the other day (sorry, can't
> remember the source) about the Govt planning a massive crackdown on
> motoring offences. FFS why? Have motorists suddenly got militant in
> the last 5 years and need stamping down? We're told we are more of a
> target than ever before for Al Qaeda, gun crime is running out of
> control, some of our sink estates are becoming no-go areas, hospital
> trusts are going broke, schools are falling down (add more from your
> own list) - and what? The Govt is going to have an extra big push on
> box sodding junctions. Where is the sense of proportion?
> The more things go wrong for this Govt, the more they seem to need a
> few quick wins, and the poor old motorist is the easiest target.

Just hope and pray you're not wearing a padded jacket and sitting minding your own
business on Stockwell tube station!

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

On 2006-10-22, GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> wrote:

> Just hope and pray you're not wearing a padded jacket and sitting
> minding your own business on Stockwell tube station!

If you're talking about that chap who got shot, bear in mind that the
bit about him wearing a padded jacket was part of the cock-up, he
never was as CCTV pictures proved, and he didn't vault any ticket
barriers or run either! All he did was get accidentally fingered by
the watchers who then set the lads with guns on him, who just did what
they were trained to do.

So it was more like "sitting minding your own business in a house near
some suspected terrorists then walk to Stockwell tube station!"

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

"Ian Rawlings" <news06@tarcus.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnejmhr7.ljp.news06@desktop.tarcus.org.uk...
> On 2006-10-22, GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> wrote:
>
>> Just hope and pray you're not wearing a padded jacket and sitting
>> minding your own business on Stockwell tube station!
>
> If you're talking about that chap who got shot, bear in mind that the
> bit about him wearing a padded jacket was part of the cock-up, he
> never was as CCTV pictures proved, and he didn't vault any ticket
> barriers or run either! All he did was get accidentally fingered by
> the watchers who then set the lads with guns on him, who just did what
> they were trained to do.
>
> So it was more like "sitting minding your own business in a house near
> some suspected terrorists then walk to Stockwell tube station!"
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

There is one fact we all agree on, the motorist is an easy target and it has
been open season for a long while now. I for instance must be an enemy of
the state because I drive, plus I actually drive a 4x4 and I smoke a cigar
once a week!!! Good gawd, public enemy No. 171/2!!!! The Gov wish us all of
the roads so they can drive around in their own huge gas guzzling monsters!
In my humble opinion. LOL

Ian Rawlings wrote:
> On 2006-10-22, GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> wrote:
>
>> Just hope and pray you're not wearing a padded jacket and sitting
>> minding your own business on Stockwell tube station!
>
> If you're talking about that chap who got shot, bear in mind that the
> bit about him wearing a padded jacket was part of the cock-up, he
> never was as CCTV pictures proved, and he didn't vault any ticket
> barriers or run either! All he did was get accidentally fingered by
> the watchers who then set the lads with guns on him, who just did what
> they were trained to do.
>
> So it was more like "sitting minding your own business in a house near
> some suspected terrorists then walk to Stockwell tube station!"

I'm still nowhere near satisfied with the subsequent obsequeous refusal to accept
any responsibility by those who should! CMP, HS, PM? one or preferrably all.

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!

On 2006-10-22, GbH <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> wrote:

> I'm still nowhere near satisfied with the subsequent obsequeous
> refusal to accept any responsibility by those who should! CMP, HS,
> PM? one or preferrably all.

Well, I suspect that they find pointing the finger at themselves for a
change to be more than they can take ;-)

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On 2006-10-22, Cyberwraith <jfnfy4evr@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I for instance must be an enemy of
> the state because I drive, plus I actually drive a 4x4 and I smoke a cigar
> once a week!!!

Ditto, plus I'm a white, single, childless, just-about-middle-aged
british male who isn't on any benefits of any kind, I'm expecting the
knock at the door any day now ;-)

If the knock ever comes, I'll pretend to be a gay drug addict burglar
who's just converted to islam, they won't know if they can arrest me
or not without offending my dignity and will promptly be swallowed up
by their own guidelines!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

On or around Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:43:26 +0100, "Greg"
<news@SPAM123voyager2.nildram.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>Box junctions work now because people make judgement calls that the traffic
>in front is moving and likely to do so for long enough for them to get
>through, so they keep moving, but at the small risk of getting stuck. A
>camera can't, or won't for financial reasons, differentiate between this
>accidental situation and a deliberate violation so people will play cautious
>and traffic will grind to a halt.

but not as impressively as it does when people ignore the box junctions...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!

"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message

> but not as impressively as it does when people ignore the box junctions...

We'll just have to wait and see, personally I think it's yet another way to
collect tax from the motorist justified by very dubious trials.
Greg

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 06:37:11 GMT, "Roger" <rmar5000@bigpond.com.au>
wrote:

>Personally I reckon the UK has some of the best and most
>courteous drivers around. I had n't driven in the UK for
>at least 25 years and last year had a 3 month stint, I could
>n't believe how good people were at obeying road rules,
>letting vehicles into traffic flows, etc. It was a pleasure driving
>there again. The further South I went in Europe the less
>obliging were the manners and the more flagrant abuse of
>the road rules. The French seem to think hazard flashers
>are "a park anywhere I like indicator".

I've found the most courteous and obliging drivers to be the Americans
- away from the big cities that is. And even there they aren't too
bad. I have absolutely no doubt that it's because of their gun laws,
and the remote but possible chance that should you **** somebody off
then you could be on the receiving end of a 9mm or fatter.

MJ