tankduck

tankduck

Active Member
Morning all,
had a pretty fun easter yesterday...or not. Was happily driving about some back roads and when I went to pull away from a junction got a puff of white smoke out the exhaust, which continued so I stopped. Temp guage read normal by the way. Popped bonnet, checked oil, which was steaming out the dip stick hole when I removed it, wasn't much water in the plastic header tank so I topped this up once it all cooled down. So having waited 45 mins or so to cool and top up I started driving, got 50 metres and more white smoke and a whole lot of water coming out under the engine. Called out RAC and said we thought head gasket had gone but there is no milky oil, and can't smell anything in the water. RAC turned up and put the tester-majig on the water tank to test for carbon monoxide but when I started it all that happened was the water bubbled over the header tank but the tester-majig was still blue so didn't seem contaminated. Does this sound like a head gasket, I don't have a whole bunch of money to pay a garage to do head gasket so I want to try and do the work myself, but I want to know if there are any other posible issues before I go taking the head off.

I knew this whole 4 day weekend thing was too good, something had to go wrong :(


BTW, this is all on a 200tdi Defender 90
 
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Sounds like the HG to me - the sniffer will only work if the water it's testing has combustion gas in it, if it's pushing all the water out from the engine then the water pouring over the side won't have been exposed to the gases yet, especially if you had just topped it up with fresh water.
 
So would it be sensible to start stripping the head off and order a new head gasket....by the way, my head gasket has no notches in it, so I'm totally unsure of which gasket to order. I guess it'll be worth replacing exhaust and rocker cover gasket too.

Cheers disco
 
1 hole 1.30mm - ERR5261 for piston protrusion between 0.50 to 0.60mm
2 hole 1.40mm - ERR5262 - 0.61 to 0.70mm
3 hole 1.50mm - ERR5263 - 0.71 to 0.80mm
No holes 1.60mm - ERR7154 - if higher than 0.80mm use the no hole gasket.

Worth sending the head for a light skim, just to get it spotless while it's off
 
No holes is the THICKEST gasket going - there are 1, 2 and 3, AND a 4th that some people don't know about which is the no hole.

This tells me that this gasket has been done before - so there may be a little bit of HGF history.

I would strip it down, check the head with a steel rule to make sure it is not warped assuming it is OK, clean it all up spotlessly, like surgically clean, clean out all the bolt holes of any water or oil (putting a bolt down on top of fluids can lead to block cracking). Clean the surfaces down with alcohol so there is not a trace of oil or grease or anything and put a new gasket on.
 
Oh - I would check the piston protrusion and see if you actually need that gasket and someone hasn't just fitted it because they think thats what should have gone on to it.

Also get a good quality gasket, Unipart do the OEM gasket for £16.
 
thanks for all your help, without sounding stupid, how do you check piston protrusion? Granted its bank holiday today I was going to order a gasket first thing tomorrow and get started stripping off the head, would it be worth waiting and testing the protrusions before ordering a gasket?

How long should it take to strip off the cylinder head, granted I've not done it before. I've found some good step by step photos on another forum for doing it.
 
If you start now you will have it done by sun down.

To measure the protrusion you need a dial gauge really, you set it up then turn the engine over until the piston you are measuring is at TDC, as it goes over the needle on the dial gauge will hesitate then start to fall, some of them leave a little marker to note the highest point. Do this for each piston and take the highest reading.

You can use a steel rule between the two centre pistons then use feeler gauges to work out the height the rule is above the block next to each of the pistons, then repeat for the 2 outer pistons, the key is being accurate and taking the measurement a few times.
 
Is head gasket failure a big problem for defenders or is just one of those - Some will some won't?
I had the head gasket go on a ford escort years ago and the temperature was sky high when I noticed!
 
How essential do you think the protrusion measuring is? Only reason I ask is it sounds quite confusing having never done it before. If I get a 3 punch head gasket as opposed to a no punch one, am I likely to have issues? Its a 70k gold block 200tdi, would that go some way to explaining no punch gasket?
 
tankduck said:
How essential do you think the protrusion measuring is? Only reason I ask is it sounds quite confusing having never done it before. If I get a 3 punch head gasket as opposed to a no punch one, am I likely to have issues? Its a 70k gold block 200tdi, would that go some way to explaining no punch gasket?
Click to expand...

why would you want to put a thinner gasket in without first checking ?
 
just the first few places I looked didn't have the no notch gasket, and I wondered how much of a difference it would make. May look into the method for checking it a bit more but it does sound pretty difficult.
 
Actually just found a great thread on measuring the protrusion, exactly as stated earlier by disco but seeing a few photos put it all into perspective. I'll invest in a dial measurer bob and clamp for it asap and go about measuring.

It seems the no notch is often the lazy way out then?
 
this is direct from the manual - it really is easy once you've got your head around it

Cylinder Head Gasket Selection.

CAUTION: New cylinder head gasket should be same thickness as the original.

If, however, cylinder head, pistons or crankshaft have been replaced, it will be necessary to check piston stand proud in order to determine the correct thickness of gasket.

1. Position a magnetic base DTI to cylinder block top face adjacent to number 1 cylinder bore.

2. Position stylus of gauge to cylinder block top face on edge of number 1 cylinder bore; zero gauge.

3. Rotate crankshaft in a clockwise direction until numbers 1 and 4 pistons are at TDC.

4. Position stylus of DTI gauge near edge of piston crown, measure and record number 1 piston stand proud. Measurement must be taken at front and rear of piston and highest protrusion figure recorded.

5. Repeat above procedures for remaining pistons.

6. From all of the readings obtained, determine highest protrusion figure and select the appropriate cylinder head gasket. Protrusion 0.50 to 0.60 mm - select gasket with 1 identification hole. Protrusion 0.61 to 0.70 mm - select gasket with 2 identification holes. Protrusion 0.71 to 0.80 mm - select gasket with 3 identification holes. Protrusion 0.81 to 0.90 mm - select gasket with 0 identification holes.

NOTE: Identification holes are located on the edge of the gasket.

7. Remove DTI.

8. Rotate crankshaft in a clockwise direction until all pistons are half-way up cylinder bores.
 
Lazy option yes - that's what I suspect; I may be wrong but I think someone has just gone for the - "meh that will do approach" A bad garage or someone who didn't care about their LR enough to bother looking into it.

If you can get away with a 2 hole for example then I would use it, the thinner the gasket the better.

Buzzland - no HGF on these engines isn't really a problem in it's own right but due to the nature of the vehicle (filling the rad with mud whjile offroad etc...) they can overheat when not looked after properly - the cooling system is over engineered on the TDI's to protect the engines from overheating and the dreaded HGF!

One of these engines given a fairly good life will go until it needs a rebuild without needing the HG changed.

The petrols were different I believe some of the V8's were susceptible to HGF - but all I know about them is what I have read/heard.
 
thanks again disco, fantastic help. Just because I'm generally interested, what makes a thinner gasket better...if you can use one that is.

Screwfix have the mag stand and dial indicators so I'm sorted :D
 
If you have a thinner gasket you keep the head and the block as close as possible and have less gasket material so it is more difficult to blow.

In diesels that are going to be turbo charged severely then a thicker gasket is recommended so as too reduce compression slightly, in your case you just want the engine to work as it was engineered - which is using one of the 4 gaskets - but you are still better with the thinnest one.
 
Not that I have done it yet, but does this mean that if I want to tweak my turbo pump then a thicker one would be better....not sure if I'm going to though.
 
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