B

benh999

Active Member
morning folks, yesterday I cured my glow plug issues and they now work like a dream, however............

This morning after the cold frost she even after glow plugs had warmed up was not keen to start and it took 4 or 5 attempts. I've heard that the copper O rings on the injectors can be culprits however in this instance surely air getting past the injectors would cause lumpy running?

Any other suggestions as to why she is still a poor cold starter and is there any thing I can do to diagnose/isolate the problem.

Once my TD5 has fired up she runs like a dream and I am very happy with her.?
 
When you say you have cured your glow plug issues,you have proved all 4 glow cherry red in similar time outside the engine,via jump leads or whatever?
 
Temperature is not really low enough for glow plugs..yet.
If you leave it idling for say 5-10 mins does it start to miss and eventually stop?
If it does then its a sign of injector seals going.
Check oil level and smell dipstick for any signs of diesel.
Mark
 
Kinda got the same the problem with mine... Although I have previously been chasing the route of fuel pump problems because the pump was noisy. Today I've bought a replacement set of O-rings and copper washers to fit on the injectors. Mine has starting problems, this has progressively got worse from taking a few turns to start it (was an immediate starter previously).. To now it doesn't want to start and has even started cutting out on a couple of a occasions if the engine is sitting idling... Then it's a real pain to start! Turns over and over and over but eventually starts to kick in with a nice clouded of smoke. Once it's running, if you keep moving it runs fine... So hoping this will resolve it. Performing the job tomorrow as the injector slid hammer arrived today
 
biolandy said:
When you say you have cured your glow plug issues,you have proved all 4 glow cherry red in similar time outside the engine,via jump leads or whatever?
Click to expand...

All four glow plugs glow cherry red. The plug issue was that the live feed to them was loose and now tightened they all glow like they should. When I changed the plugs I checked each one was working by plugging the lead onto it and then placing it on a metal surface. Once all four were proven to work I placed them back into the head and popped the leads back on. That said I never checked operation of all four simultaneously.

She will idle constantly for long periods of time and never looks like missing or stalling. This morning was the same as normal when cold.. few attempts to start and when she finally catches you get big old puff of smoke that quickly clears and she runs like a dream.
 
Sounds very similar to how mine started off...this MAY be linked somehow, but mine first cut out whilst idling almost immediately after I had driven over a very steep hump of earth.. Off-road (as most of the land is here in Cyprus)
 
KMAS100 said:
Kinda got the same the problem with mine... Although I have previously been chasing the route of fuel pump problems because the pump was noisy. Today I've bought a replacement set of O-rings and copper washers to fit on the injectors. Mine has starting problems, this has progressively got worse from taking a few turns to start it (was an immediate starter previously).. To now it doesn't want to start and has even started cutting out on a couple of a occasions if the engine is sitting idling... Then it's a real pain to start! Turns over and over and over but eventually starts to kick in with a nice clouded of smoke. Once it's running, if you keep moving it runs fine... So hoping this will resolve it. Performing the job tomorrow as the injector slid hammer arrived today
Click to expand...

Yes thats exactly what mine was like before I changed the seals. Careful when you refit the rocker shaft bolts, use the correct torque setting. I reused/re torqued mine 5 times but Ive now bought news for my injector re-fit this week.
Mark
 
How is your battery? Colder weather is great at highlighting a weak battery. It may be turning over ok but if its dropping the voltage too much it will have trouble starting.
Mark
 
sierrafery said:
might be a good ideea to rule out the air bleed valve before the washers though
Click to expand...
That valve is a sound investment, mine had all the classic symptoms hard to start after standing for a while, tank pump squeeling when I put the ignition on, press the throttle and it fired up with a puff of smoke. I did the injector seals, and the diesel filter bleed valve, both made things a bit better, but the real turn round came when I re sealed the diesel pressure regulator, I think the two fuel lines were allowing air to seep into the system when it was standing, o rings on the end of the pipes were ragged. Fires up with a turn of the key now.
 
IMO the system just bled itself better after more starts cos there's no way for ait to get in at the FPR only fuel out as even with engine stopped if there's no leak through the washers it should be more than 1 bar residual pressure there
 
I hope this hasn't hijacked benh999's thread... I added my comments because I thought it may help but thanks for the addition of the last two comments. I did a lot of work on the oil cooler side of the engine 3 weeks ago, took everything off and to pieces.. Found a home-made oil rad in the housing!, so that needed replacing. One of the challenges with a LR here in Cyprus is that people make stuff for it rather than replace expensive items, bad news if you are the 2 nd or 3rd owner like me. The oil was thick and black, we used a glass of kerosine and flushed the engine and I had cleaned the top half and bottom half, taking the sump off etc. Took the opportunity to replace the harness and the oil pump bolt etc etc. All nice and clean now but I think the kerosine may have added to the deterioration of the o-rings.. Should have done that bit when the cam cover was off.. But hey!
I'll post an update later today when I have completed the job
 
If the o-rings are hurt you'll have diesel in sump that's the symptom, starting and running issues are caused by leaking copper washers
 
Well, changed the injector o-rings and copper washers today.. Lucky I had bought a slide hammer removal tool as not sure how you would have got them out without it. Anyway, no difference to the starting and idle running problem! However, when I eventually got the car going and took it for a quick spin, it did seems to pull much better.
So as Sierrafery indicated, checked the air bleed valve too.. That seemed OK, pulled it in and out a bit, was a bit stiff but it had an o-ring on the end of it so discounted that, and changed the fuel filter too whilst I was at it. So still same problem. I replaced the pump about 2 months ago and still have the old one (it was noisy), so I might put that back in tomorrow to see if it cures the problem
 
Then if these things are ruled out you should plug in a tester and see some live data cos there are few sensors which can cause difficult start, one of them is the fuel temp(FT) sensor(in the FPR) or the coolant ECT sensor too if the signals are not the best, the crank(CKP) sensor is important as well, just a ''flavour" from many other possibilities:

"The FT sensor can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
l Sensor open circuit.
l Short circuit to vehicle supply.
l Short circuit to earth.
l Sensor fitted incorrectly.
In the event of a FT sensor signal failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l Difficult cold start.
l Difficult hot start.
l Driveability concern."
.......................

The ECT sensor can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
l Sensor open circuit.
l Short circuit to vehicle supply.
l Short circuit to earth.
l Incorrect mechanical fitting.
l Signal fixed above 40 °C (104 °F) not detected.
l Signal fixed below 40 °C (104 °F) not detected.
In the event of an ECT sensor signal failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l Difficult cold start.
l Difficult hot start.
l Driveability concerns.
l Instrument pack temperature warning illuminated.
l Temperature gauge reads excessively hot.
l Temperature gauge reads excessively cold.
In the event of component failure the ECM calculates coolant temperature from the fuel temperature sensor signal. If
this occurs, the limit engine operation if coolant temperature is too high becomes inoperative.

.........
The CKP sensor can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
l Sensor assembly loose.
l Incorrect spacer fitted.
l Sensor open circuit.
l Sensor short circuit.
l Incorrect fitting and integrity of the sensor.
l Water ingress.
In the event of a CKP sensor signal failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l Engine cranks but fails to start.
l MIL remains on at all times.
l Engine misfires (CKP sensor incorrectly fitted).
l Engine runs roughly or even stalls (CKP sensor incorrectly fitted).


 
I
sierrafery said:
IMO the system just bled itself better after more starts cos there's no way for ait to get in at the FPR only fuel out as even with engine stopped if there's no leak through the washers it should be more than 1 bar residual pressure

When I did anything on the system I ran the purge several times to clear out any air and contamination, everything seemed sound when the ignition was on and the system pressurised by the pump in the tank but I ran the engine with the top cover off and it dripped diesel from the pressure regulator line that's when I changed the o rings and purged it again and it starts and runs better. I no longer hear the pump squeal for a few seconds when I turn on the ignition. I don't see how a system like this filled with liquid can retain any residual pressure there is no accumulator or pump to do this. Any liquid filled system will loose it's pressure with even a pin hole leak path.
If the tank pump is centrifugal When the pump shuts down it will allow the diesel to flow in reverse.
Click to expand...
 
You posted your message in the quote ;) , so it seems that your problem was a fuel leak at the FPR though, the Td5 fuel delivery system is conceived to keep itself primed not to let fuel drop back cos there is a non return valve within the pump, i left a gauge connected in the FPR instead of the FT sensor over night a while ago when i was troubleshooting a running issue and there was 1.5 bar in the morning
 
Well I do have a nanocom, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for whilst watching live data.. I.e. What figures are wrong and what are within operational spec. Still seem to be getting air purging squealing ....
 
so i presume that there are no fault codes logged... connect nanocom on "inputs fuelling" and see the engine speed, coolant temp and fuel temp when the symptom occurs, or better save a live data log on SD card and post the results here...the engine speed reading is important while cranking before it starts either
 
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