websun · Jul 21, 2019

Hi everyone, I think I made a bubu.
Car in title, 03 td4 m47. I took the inlet manifold off for a mr muscle clean as I was blanking the egr.
All went well on that side, however what I did wrong is that I scrapped a bit of the crud on the upper ports, the round ones. And some of it fell into the rabbit hole... Not much though as some I was able to grab with the screwdriver/cloth.

I do see some symptoms, like a little bit loss of power. Question is if significant damage is done and/or if there is anything I can do at this stage.

Nodge68 · Jul 22, 2019

The carbon goop will simply pass through the engine and shouldn't do any damage, unless it's hard enough to hold a valve open. The stuff must break off all the time in use, and is normally fine. However large particles that pass through can eventually block the cat, which will result in loss of power. Unfortunately the cat is integral with the front exhaust section, so normal (although not strictly legal) is to simply use a stout tube to break up the substrate, so it can be removed.

Arctic2 · Jul 22, 2019

Did you remove the MAP sensor on the side of the manifold before doing the Mr Muscle clean? if not you may have damage the MAP sensor. did you also plug the MAP sensor back in ?

websun · Jul 22, 2019

Hi Nodge68, thank you once again.
I am hoping for the cat to be blocked to be honest, I believe I can remove the whole part temporarily to check if that is it. Surely it will make alot of noise but at least I'll know if I should get a new cat, it's not a fortune.
However there is the possibility of a valve not closing or even be somehow bent I am not sure what happened there, the car did hardly start first time. Any idea what the symptoms would be if indeed a valve is not closing? I am also thinking about removing the inlet and use some inlet cleaner that is safe to spray while running there a little bit, maybe it will clean up something.

Arctic2 yes I did remove the MAP sensor on the left. I have Delphi diagnostic, it's working fine as I tested it after.

websun · Jul 23, 2019

Wurth WoW reads 'sum fault on MAF. To be honest I did wash the engine because some ape screwed in too much ze engine cover screw on left, creating a hole that will spill oil everywhere if there's no screw.
I did order a new approved cat from bm, will install it over weekend. If the current one is good I will sell it on fleabay but I doubt it is, gases are now entering the cockpit.
Ordered the maf+map sensors as well as the turbo solenoid. All these preemptively . Maybe things will smooth off, as I spent months and a furtune on my last landy which was a k series, never ran properly tbh and I also gained experience in this stuff and made some mistakes.

Nodge68 · Jul 24, 2019

websun said:
To be honest I did wash the engine because some ape screwed in too much ze engine cover screw on left, creating a hole that will spill oil everywhere if there's no screw.

That's normal. The hole isn't blind, so will allow oil to spray if the bolts not in.

websun said:
I did order a new approved cat from bm, will install it over weekend.

The cat is part of the front pipe, so isn't available separately. You can look at it, if you split the down pipe to exhaust joint.

websun · Jul 24, 2019

Yep bought a new one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232450644575
Will change the whole thing.
Weird thing about that screw, as I left the engine running to evaporate the water after cleanup, after 30 min it looked like a nightmare had to redo everything again.

websun · Jul 24, 2019

Ok, I've found the issue with the power loss, seems like the egr exhaust flexible pipe was not jointed properly with the egr blank, also the small hose was not plugged at all. All these were caused by myself running out of light and superficial work being done on Sunday. I now have full power but will still replace the cat.

But now I am back to another issue, bluish white smoke on acceleration. So far what I've replaced wherever was required or not:

- crankcase breather with the vortex "upgraded" one
- MAP sensor
- Turbo solenoid
- MAF (with reset of adaptation)
- All air hoses with the silicone sexy ones.

Nodge68 I've seen you had this similar issue, did you ever fixed it?
I am thinking of replacing the valve seals however that seems like a complicated job for me if I have to remove the cylinder head. Would be the last thing to do, but since this is under load etc that might not be the actual problem.

Thanks,
Paul

websun · Jul 25, 2019

PS: the car did not smoke so bad until I changed to this vortex crankcase breather. I will put back the blue one, as for me is a 15 minute job to change it every now and then.

Nodge68 · Jul 25, 2019

websun said:
Nodge68 I've seen you had this similar issue, did you ever fixed it?

Mine smokes blue when starting from cold ( just a quick puff). I've put this down to a bit of oil getting past the inlet valve stems and into the combustion chamber, which is burning off when starting.

I also get the 2K misfire, which also produces blue smoke, but I've given up trying to fix that.

websun said:
PS: the car did not smoke so bad until I changed to this vortex crankcase breather.

I don't like the vortex type, as it will allow a small amount of oil to pass to the inlet. I use the fluffy cotton reel filter, and change it annually.

websun · Jul 25, 2019

Hm, no idea if I do have a misfire or not, should be logged in obd?
Mine smokes bit like a chimney but only on significant load.

Nodge68 · Jul 25, 2019

websun said:
Hm, no idea if I do have a misfire or not,

Hold the revs at 2K Rpm off load, and see if the misfire develops. Lots of M47 engines suffer the 2K misfire, but there's been no definitive cure as far as I know.

websun said:
should be logged in obd?

The EDC doesn't have misfire detection I don't think.

websun said:
Mine smokes bit like a chimney but only on significant load.

Maybe excessive oil is getting past the turbo seals?

websun · Jul 25, 2019

It is possible as all the hoses had 'sum oil in them. Quite a bit I would say, but them turbo seals I suspect it's not an easy job to replace.
I will investigate, thank you.

websun · Jul 25, 2019

Question beside the seal 3 and 11 is there any other?
I am very sure that is it because since I had that hose loose there was no turbo pressure/power, and zero smoke. As soon as turbo is back in business, so does smoke.

Nodge68 · Jul 25, 2019

websun said:
Quite a bit I would say, but them turbo seals I suspect it's not an easy job to replace.

Turbo seals are integral with the compressor housing and so a replacement turbo or CHRA is needed.

websun · Jul 25, 2019

Ok thanks will get a re-manufactured turbo. Silly me I thought only those seals are it.

weemac · Jul 25, 2019

websun said:
PS: the car did not smoke so bad until I changed to this vortex crankcase breather. I will put back the blue one, as for me is a 15 minute job to change it every now and then.

Reckon that's sensible. Fitted the vortex 6 months ago and it remained dry for a while. Lately noticed quite a build up of oil in the intercooler and hoses. Potentially misdiagnosed it as failing turbo seals and replaced the unit. The PCV is allowing a lot of oil back into the air manifold through the turbo and intercooler. Not sure what the environmentalists would say but I'm currently running the hose that connects back to the turbo inlet into a catcher bottle and venting the oily air into the atmosphere. Cleaning the intercooler is easy enough but I'd rather not be doing it all the time

websun · Jul 25, 2019

Well the turbo is quite expensive for me, especially changing it. Can somebody tell me how I can diagnose this? I hear no sound from it, it's performing well.

weemac · Jul 25, 2019

As far as I can make out, you get leaky turbo seals under two conditions;

1) Excessive crank case pressure causing the return oil flow to be resisted. The oil will try to find a new way out of the positively pressurised oil pathway and make it's way past the seals into the air side. Therefore, through the intercooler and into the air manifold. You can check this by starting the engine then taking the oil filler cap off. Cover it with your hand and observe how much 'chuffing' it's doing. Some positive pressure seems typical but if you shouldn't be getting blasted or see loads of oil flying out. You could also pull the dipstick (with the filler cap back on) and see if it shoots oil out. If not, you're [probably] OK.

2) Overboosted turbo. If the turbo's wastegate and control system isn't functioning properly, you can over-spin the turbo, creating a lot of heat in the bearings. Same can be said if the oil supply is compromised. The transferred heat could perish the seals or alter the tolerance and cause an oil leak. You could potentially expect to see oil leaking on both the air AND exhaust sides.

If you're getting boost as normal when driving, it's [probably] fine. You could pull the 90 degree hose off the turbo and see how much oil there is. Dry any oil out and temporarily disconnect the crankcase breather hose from the air intake pipe. Be sure to plug the inlet port to the air intake pipe as it would otherwise affect the turbo. Remove and dry out the intercooler and EGR hoses and reassemble. Run it for 50 miles then check whether any more oil accumalates in the turbo and intercooler hoses. If not, then I suspect the turbo isn't leaking and the crankcase breathing system is potentially at fault. If there's still oil, then suspect the turbo seals.

Best of luck.

websun · Jul 25, 2019

Thank you weemak, I will do it this weekend. The crankcase breather filter looked fine when I replaced it.
I'm afraid I do not understand... you said disconnect the breather hose but then be sure you connect it. Is that temporary until I clean stuff out? Or these are two different hoses.

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