C

chkto1000

Member
Hello y'all!
New this forum, and new to LR as well - sure glad found this great resource here!

Well, I bought an old freelander 1, Benzin.

When driving there is a strong "squealing" noise coming from underneath.It sounds as coming from one of the wheels on the right side - not sure exactly - hard to isolate the location while driving, but I think it is a wheel noise.

The noise starts as the car starts moving and increases with speed. it sounds like a rolling sound - as something turns. the noise is loud until around 90-100kmh (at 80-100 kmh sound decreases), and at higher speeds (120 kmh) almost no sound at all.

Can you help me in figuring out this sound? I tried reading other threads, but it is all kind of mixed up now...

All suggestions are welcome!

Thanks, and have a good one!
 
chkto1000 said:
Hello y'all!
New this forum, and new to LR as well - sure glad found this great resource here!

Well, I bought an old freelander 1, Benzin.

When driving there is a strong "squealing" noise coming from underneath.It sounds as coming from one of the wheels on the right side - not sure exactly - hard to isolate the location while driving, but I think it is a wheel noise.

The noise starts as the car starts moving and increases with speed. it sounds like a rolling sound - as something turns. the noise is loud until around 90-100kmh (at 80-100 kmh sound decreases), and at higher speeds (120 kmh) almost no sound at all.

Can you help me in figuring out this sound? I tried reading other threads, but it is all kind of mixed up now...

All suggestions are welcome!

Thanks, and have a good one!
Click to expand...
hi , you definitely need to take the brake drum off and have a look inside to see if all well. Not easy to tell from your noise description , but a wheel bearing noise would be more a rumble than a squeal.
 
If you can't tell whether its front or back, could it be the middle and the VCU support bearings? You could try removing the props & VCU (as a single unit) and taking it for a drive to see if the noise stops. If the noise does stop, its not guaranteed to be the support bearings, but if it continues, then its obviously not!

They are quite easy to remove & reinstall, just bolts to IRD, diff and the 4 holding up the VCU - but be careful cos its heavy. Plenty of talk on here about how to remove and install them.
 
Go for a drive and then stop and carefully feel the heat of each brake drum with your hand to see if one is significantly hotter than the other. If so, you probably have a binding rear brake. The little spring clips that hold the brake shoes to the backplate sometimes come off their pins inside the drum.
 
Avocet1 said:
Go for a drive and then stop and carefully feel the heat of each brake drum with your hand to see if one is significantly hotter than the other. If so, you probably have a binding rear brake. The little spring clips that hold the brake shoes to the backplate sometimes come off their pins inside the drum.
Click to expand...
It should be added that if that is the case, then the shoes can without warning slip off the cylinders leading to rapid brake fluid loss and catastrophic loss of ALL brakes.

It is very advisable to periodically remove the drums, even if the brakes appear to be working perfectly, to check for any corrosion.
 
GrumpyGel said:
It is very advisable to periodically remove the drums, even if the brakes appear to be working perfectly, to check for any corrosion
Click to expand...
This should be done annually really. I check, clean, grease and adjust mine every year, just before the MOT.
GrumpyGel said:
then the shoes can without warning slip off the cylinders leading to rapid brake fluid loss and catastrophic loss of ALL brakes.
Click to expand...
Indeed it can. Very scary situation to be in.
 
Wait - what?! Surely the brakes are dual circuit and you'd only lose one circuit? (unless both sides failed at the same time)/

When I first got mine, one of the rear brakes was binding a bit. When I took the drum off, the spring clip was nowhere to be found, but the pin was still in place. Or at least, what served as a pin! Someone had tried to make a replacement pin out of an old nail! The groove for the spring clip looked like it had been done by hand with a hacksaw blade....
 
Avocet1 said:
Wait - what?! Surely the brakes are dual circuit and you'd only lose one circuit? (unless both sides failed at the same time)/
Click to expand...
It's a duel circuit master cylinder. The problem with most ABS systems is the modulator commons up the separate MC cylinders. This results in all the fluid going down the circuit with the leak. There's a lot of fluid in the system, so the brakes will work for a few pumps.
 
Nodge68 said:
It's a duel circuit master cylinder. The problem with most ABS systems is the modulator commons up the separate MC cylinders. This results in all the fluid going down the circuit with the leak. There's a lot of fluid in the system, so the brakes will work for a few pumps.
Click to expand...
Interesting! I hadn't thought of that! However, presumably that's only the case if the ABS pump is operating at the time though? (So you'd need to have a rear wheel cylinder pop out AND THEN an ABS intervention long enough to empty the reservoir before you lost all brakes)?
 
Thank you all. I didnt have time to work on the hippo yet, but discovered today something that might lead me on the right track:
took the car today to a short drive (a few kms), stopped and touched all brakes: 2 rear were cold (the drums), 2 fronts were hot (discs) - not red hot, but hot enough to burn your hands - I am sure it is not normal. Do you think this might be it? something binding? if so, what should I do?
Thanks!
 
chkto1000 said:
Thank you all. I didnt have time to work on the hippo yet, but discovered today something that might lead me on the right track:
took the car today to a short drive (a few kms), stopped and touched all brakes: 2 rear were cold (the drums), 2 fronts were hot (discs) - not red hot, but hot enough to burn your hands - I am sure it is not normal. Do you think this might be it? something binding? if so, what should I do?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

No, I'm afraid that is pretty normal. On any car, the front brakes do most of the work (which is why they tend to be disc brakes and larger than the rear brakes). It is therefore normal for the front brakes to be hotter than the rears. If, however, you have a difference in temperature from side to side (e.g. the right hand front brake is hotter than the left hand front brake, or the right hand rear brake is hotter than the left hand rear brake), then it suggests you may have a problem,but both front brakes being hotter than both rear brakes is normal.
 
Avocet1 said:
No, I'm afraid that is pretty normal. On any car, the front brakes do most of the work (which is why they tend to be disc brakes and larger than the rear brakes). It is therefore normal for the front brakes to be hotter than the rears. If, however, you have a difference in temperature from side to side (e.g. the right hand front brake is hotter than the left hand front brake, or the right hand rear brake is hotter than the left hand rear brake), then it suggests you may have a problem,but both front brakes being hotter than both rear brakes is normal.
Click to expand...

oh, ok - thanks. I was almost happy now... ;-)
 
Avocet1 said:
Sorry! Probably time to start investigating some of the other suggestions. I'd be inclined to take the propshaft off next.
Click to expand...

ok - update:
I noticed now that I had a mistake with the description of the noise: it is not squealing but actually rumbling (loud noise) - I just read some threads...
I suspected VCU / differential after reading, but it looks strange: it seems to me that 4WD works fine in my car.
another symptom: it seems as the car is working a bit hard to gain speed, and especially in 1st gear or reverse if you put your foot off the gas it almost immediately stops - as something is blocking it (brakes?). So, I suspect perhaps some breaks are binding or seizing (only my thoughts, nothing from real knowledge).
Also: since I got the car, the hand break was very hard to pull and was not moving more than 1-2 clicks. Stupid me, I did not think about it until today.

Please give remarks regarding my thoughts.

so, I started to work on things - decided today to check rear drums and clean breaks - 1st step:
Cat jacked up rear (both sides), handbrake not pulled: I could not rotate the wheels at all. It should not be like that, right? If the hand brake is not pulled, the rear wheels should rotate freely. Am I wrong?

So, I read how to adjust the tensioner, and did it - several rotations. Look at that: now the wheels spin!
Now the hand breaks is pulled high and light, and reach 7 or 8 clicks.
Should it be that way?
Now the strange thing: when I pull the hand brake now, there seems to be no reaction from the wheels: they keep spinning. does that mean I slacked the tensioner to much, and I need to re-tight it again, let us say to the middle?

the car is still jacked up and needs to stay like that till tomorrow because I decided to paint the rusty drums from outside, so I cannot refit the drums and go for a spin today, and here is my question: is it possible that this is problem - I mean: a kind of a sticky hand brake "blocks" the car, disturbs the normal driving, and makes a rumbling noise?

Your opinions please, much appreciated!
 
Did you adjust the handbrake at the brake drum, or at the cable adjuster under the centre console, or both? You are supposed to slacken the cable, then adjust each pair of shoes up as far as possible without them binding, and then adjust the cable to give you about 5-7 clicks.

If BOTH rear wheels are off the ground, you should be able to turn each wheel by hand. (The opposite wheel will turn the other way). If only one wheel is off the ground, the 4WD system will make it just about impossible to turn by hand.
 
Avocet1 said:
Did you adjust the handbrake at the brake drum, or at the cable adjuster under the centre console, or both? You are supposed to slacken the cable, then adjust each pair of shoes up as far as possible without them binding, and then adjust the cable to give you about 5-7 clicks.

If BOTH rear wheels are off the ground, you should be able to turn each wheel by hand. (The opposite wheel will turn the other way). If only one wheel is off the ground, the 4WD system will make it just about impossible to turn by hand.
Click to expand...

OK. So, I adjusted only the cable. How do I do the shoes? Is there a tutorial for this (sorry for the noob question - I am a noob!)?
What do you think about my thoughts there?

Regarding turning by hand: as I wrote, both rear wheels are jacked up, and now, after slacking the hand brake cable, they turn completely free. The problem is that now when the hand brake is pulled, they still turn - not blocked (I guess this is the adjusting that needs to be done).
 
I don't usually think replacing stuff is a good idea just for the sake of it, but replacing everything in the rear brakes is not expensive (cylinders, shoes, drums). When I had a leaking cylinder, that is exactly what I did and after installing all the bits and giving the system a thoughrough bleed, the brakes were perfect first time. In the UK, you have to be a bit careful because it sounds like the brake pipes to the cylinders disintegrate when you unscrew them from the cylinders, and those little pipes are not cheap. Mine were fine, but no salt on NZ roads. Advice I have been given is that drums are often overlooked and are worn beyond servicable without even knowing it, I'm glad I replaced my drums.

If the tensioner is to slack and everything is working and installed properly, then pressing the brake peddle a few times will bring the tensioner back to its correct position. I believe, but may be corrected, that that is the correct way they work.

Many people who have renewed the rear brake components do not install then correctly. This can lead to the tensioner not working correctly. The advice is to take a picture before stripping and after you have reinstalled check it against the picture. Obviously, if the car is new to you, you won't know if the brakes as-is have every worked correctly and so the bits may already be installed incorrectly - so go by a pic of known good setup. The rear brakes changes on model years, up to 2000 were simpler than post 2000 - not sure if there were any changes after that. I would check your config against a known good image.
 
GrumpyGel said:
I don't usually think replacing stuff is a good idea just for the sake of it, but replacing everything in the rear brakes is not expensive (cylinders, shoes, drums). When I had a leaking cylinder, that is exactly what I did and after installing all the bits and giving the system a thoughrough bleed, the brakes were perfect first time. In the UK, you have to be a bit careful because it sounds like the brake pipes to the cylinders disintegrate when you unscrew them from the cylinders, and those little pipes are not cheap. Mine were fine, but no salt on NZ roads. Advice I have been given is that drums are often overlooked and are worn beyond servicable without even knowing it, I'm glad I replaced my drums.

If the tensioner is to slack and everything is working and installed properly, then pressing the brake peddle a few times will bring the tensioner back to its correct position. I believe, but may be corrected, that that is the correct way they work.

Many people who have renewed the rear brake components do not install then correctly. This can lead to the tensioner not working correctly. The advice is to take a picture before stripping and after you have reinstalled check it against the picture. Obviously, if the car is new to you, you won't know if the brakes as-is have every worked correctly and so the bits may already be installed incorrectly - so go by a pic of known good setup. The rear brakes changes on model years, up to 2000 were simpler than post 2000 - not sure if there were any changes after that. I would check your config against a known good image.
Click to expand...


OK - this is a good advice. I will try to see what I get - I really forgot about pressing the pedal as well...
 
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