25.Eng.REME

25.Eng.REME

New Member
I have seen these and want to know if using these will cause any problems? If the ride hieght is increased, will that mean longer shock absorbers etc? Is it recommended the FFR use these and do they have them on anyway? Is there any other parts that will need to be specific for this?

Sorry about asking dumb sounding questions, i'm trying to learn as much as i can and i don't really have anyone else to ask.

Thanks

Phil.
 
Hello Phil.
Whats with the username? are or where you serving?

The military series came with extended hangers, I am using them on my series 1 which gives it about 1.5 inch of lift. There have been no problems noticed even with wrong side of 70mph speeds.

ARTE ET MARTE

Lee
 
Yours is a 109, Military or Civvy, or 1-tom?
Military LR's had extended shackles on the springs, they are about 1" longer and have a third clamp bolt and spacer between the plates to stop them bowing.
I believe they were also used on the 1-ton, to accomodate over sized 9.00 tyres.
However, the longer shackles on thier own only lift the tail of the spring; military & 1-ton, also got extended spring hangers and dumb irons to put the nose of the spring further away from the chassis.
Without these (welding job to cut mounts & fit extended ones), you only get a part of the ride height increase, but of more concern, you are in effect tilting the axle baclwards; and I seem to recall it's in the region of 5 degres or so; coilers start recomending 'camber correction arms' at lifts that would twist the axles more than 3degrees, so obviousely its in the region of needing attension.
Tilting the axle round, effects the steering geometry and camber angle, as well as altering the operating angles of the propshaft.
Its a lot worse at the front, and on SWB models, which can run into prop yoke binding problems at either end; but its the effect on the steering geometry that's more of a problem, the additional rake and trail that the tilt gives makes the steering even more heavy than it is to start with, and gives a tendancy for the wheel to 'flop' either side of centre, a tendancy made worse by the change in camber angle. so you can gat both heavy and vague nervouse steering!
I've come accross plenty of people that have added extended shackles and 'lived with it' without any kind of camber correction; I've also come accross more than a few that have reported 'horrible' steering, and plenty that have reported alarming Universal Joint wear or failure.
So its not a 'reccomended' mod, without the extended spring hangers.
 
Teflon said:
Yours is a 109, Military or Civvy, or 1-tom?
Military LR's had extended shackles on the springs, they are about 1" longer and have a third clamp bolt and spacer between the plates to stop them bowing.
I believe they were also used on the 1-ton, to accomodate over sized 9.00 tyres.
However, the longer shackles on thier own only lift the tail of the spring; military & 1-ton, also got extended spring hangers and dumb irons to put the nose of the spring further away from the chassis.
Without these (welding job to cut mounts & fit extended ones), you only get a part of the ride height increase, but of more concern, you are in effect tilting the axle baclwards; and I seem to recall it's in the region of 5 degres or so; coilers start recomending 'camber correction arms' at lifts that would twist the axles more than 3degrees, so obviousely its in the region of needing attension.
Tilting the axle round, effects the steering geometry and camber angle, as well as altering the operating angles of the propshaft.
Its a lot worse at the front, and on SWB models, which can run into prop yoke binding problems at either end; but its the effect on the steering geometry that's more of a problem, the additional rake and trail that the tilt gives makes the steering even more heavy than it is to start with, and gives a tendancy for the wheel to 'flop' either side of centre, a tendancy made worse by the change in camber angle. so you can gat both heavy and vague nervouse steering!
I've come accross plenty of people that have added extended shackles and 'lived with it' without any kind of camber correction; I've also come accross more than a few that have reported 'horrible' steering, and plenty that have reported alarming Universal Joint wear or failure.
So its not a 'reccomended' mod, without the extended spring hangers.
Click to expand...

I disagree fully with that.. I was originally running extended shackles without the extended hangers.. This did cause the caster angle to increase, with the axel pinion tilted back.. The prop shaft angle was not beyond the scop of the UJs.. But the steering was fantastic.
With the greater caster angle, self centering was much better as was steering feel.. Wheel shimmy will also be less likely due to the better self centering..
Think about it.. If you tilt the axel around its pivot point, in this case the front spring eye, the effective height gain in the middle of the spring will be half the amount of height gained from the extended shackles.. So the rotation of the axel is only very slight.. I found this slight increase in possitive caster angle improved my steering greatly., Steering was light, self centering improved and overal, steering feel was much better.. As for wheel shimmy increasing, No way.. the front wheels are kept in line even better with the increased caster. So extended shackles with civilian hangers will alter your caster angle, but it improved my steering feel and self centering enormously, plus with my 9.00x16 tyres it did not make the steering heavy..
A worth while improvement.. The Camber angle cannot be adjusted as im sure you know.. The caster angle is the only one effected and in a possitive way.
 
The axes of the ouput flange of the gearbox and the pinion on the diff should be parallel in order to avoid propshaft vibration. They won't be parallel if you only fit the extended shackles. The 1 ton Land-Rovers have: a special engine crossmember to allow clearance for the front propshaft when the suspension is fully extended; spacers between the chassis and bump stops; and probably longer flexible brake hoses (you don't want them getting torn off).
 
fenby1976 said:
The axes of the ouput flange of the gearbox and the pinion on the diff should be parallel in order to avoid propshaft vibration. They won't be parallel if you only fit the extended shackles. The 1 ton Land-Rovers have: a special engine crossmember to allow clearance for the front propshaft when the suspension is fully extended; spacers between the chassis and bump stops; and probably longer flexible brake hoses (you don't want them getting torn off).
Click to expand...


So you fit longer brake hoses.. I used early range rover ones.. The drive flanges, not being parellel did not cause a propblem either.. Part time 4wd.
You do not need spacers between chassis and bump stop for just fitting extended shackles..
Ive fitted extended shackles on my standard chassis and it was a great improvement. Ive eun the vehicle like this for many years, driven to Kazan in russia overland with it so this arrangement has been tried and tested..
 
I have just fitted these to my new series 1 project. I measured the angle of the diff flange before I fitted the longer shakles. Then i fitted the shakles and looseend the U Bolts, and jacked diff up till it was at the same angle as before. I then measured the gap and welded up some triangular wedges to correct the steering angle out of old leaf spring material with a hole in the bottom for the spring locateing pin and i welded a dowl in the top to locate the axle. they seem to work fine and the magic number was 12.5 mm!
Hope this helps
 
I've got them fitted, with 9.00x16 tyres. Bought as a kit from Craddocks.
Steering is fine, prop shaft no problem, standard brake lines no problem. 1 ton shackles have been used as a mod on trailers for years. I give mine a lot more stick than most would ever dream of and the extended shackles have caused no problems.
DSC02411.jpg
 
Placing wedges under the axels seats is a very good answer, but as i said the increased caster angle that the longer shackles gave resulted in a greatly improved steering.. And the propshaft flanges were not far enough out of line to cause any problems..
 
9.00 x 16tyres do indeed rule.. especially the NDMS tyres.. For off road grip in deep mud the tyres perform perfectly.. Mine are 35 1/4" diameter
 

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Measure again.. 10.00 x 16? Not as good in the mud as bar grips are they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
tony109, I measured them before I put them on, they measure under 36" when they're on though,as the sidewall squashes. I've never tried bar grips, but the XL's I've had no cause for complaint in the mud. They were good enough for the Camel Trophy.
 
That is a damn good place for the high lift. May just copy that! Did you use proper brakets or make them?

Since fitting lift shackles to an SJ I would never never go near them again. It was probably not helped by having worn springs, but they were a complete pain in the ass. Steering was really wacko until I fitted shims and even then wasn't that brilliant. Different scenario with a Land Rover I know, but has put me off for life.
 
rustyrhinos said:
That is a damn good place for the high lift. May just copy that! Did you use proper brakets or make them?

Since fitting lift shackles to an SJ I would never never go near them again. It was probably not helped by having worn springs, but they were a complete pain in the ass. Steering was really wacko until I fitted shims and even then wasn't that brilliant. Different scenario with a Land Rover I know, but has put me off for life.
Click to expand...


SJ shackles are on the Front.. So nothing like the land rover!
Longer front shackles will kill the caster angle and make steering dead..
Longer shackles on the land rover work wonders
 
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