brandysnaps
New Member
can any one tell me if my n reg 300tdi has edc (electronic diesel control)as i need to buy a egr valve and apparently 2 types so landrover say??
eightinavee
Well-Known Member
If it is automatic g/box it will have an EDC pump,if manual it will have a standard Bosch VE pump.
brandysnaps
New Member
sorry to be a pain why are automatics different??
eightinavee
Well-Known Member
Auto's were given the EDC system to make the engine produce more power to compensate for the extra power absorbed by the autobox.It was seen as a way of getting more power ( By more accurate control of fueling ) without harming emissions output.I run a 96my disco auto as a work "van" and it goes very well - without lots of black smoke etc.Please ignore the previous post about disconnecting the EGR - it is there for a good reason.Like reducing Nox emissions by up to 80%.Nox being the main cause of acid rain.
l3on
New Member
eightinavee said:
The only way it could reduce Nitrogen Oxide by 80% is by recirculating 100% of the exhaust output of the engine and burning 80% of it off in the second combustion cycle, both of which are impossible, even if you take the volumatic areas of the EGR recirc pipe compared to the exhaust manifold as being 20% (grossly oversestimated), it was permenantly open (it isnt) and then the engine burnt off 50% of the remaining NOX (it won't) then you will have reduced NOX emissions by just 10%.
The build up of carbon deposits over time from recycling the exhaust gases reduces the efficiency of the engine leading to greater fuel useage, and the higher temperature of the inlet charge (recirculated gases been uncooled apart from heat transfer in the copper pipe) further reduces engine working efficiency.
It is nothing more than the manufacturers way of lowering emmisions at certain revs and operating conditions at point of emmissions testing and is then sold on to the public as a benefit, which in the long run it isn't.
Sorry to through the toys out the pram, but let the facts speak for themselves.
Lenny1969
New Member
Whatever it does or doesnt do, ive blanked mine and the Disco is far far improved in all areas, acceleration, fuel consumption, more responsive and revs a lot more freely.
I dont do figures like above, i aint that clever, but the facts speak for themselves.
With the egr blanked, the car runs better in every aspect.
Surely thats a good thing?
I dont do figures like above, i aint that clever, but the facts speak for themselves.
With the egr blanked, the car runs better in every aspect.
Surely thats a good thing?
eightinavee
Well-Known Member
Egr works by feeding a measured amount of spent gases back into the inlet to slow the rate of combustion and lower peak combustion temperatures - TO LOWER THE FORMATION OF NOX. It is Ecu controlled and is only actuated under certain conditions,usually on overun - close to idle,and light throttle openings.The max amount of applied Egr is 40%,above this soot,CO and HC emissions all rise due to lack of oxygen
So if your truck runs better with the EGR disconnected chances are the valve was stuck open anyway,as if it is working properly you wouldnt tell the difference.
Or do you know better than all the car manufacturers ? Cos they all use EGR,as its the best way to get emissions down on compression ignition engines - do you really think they would bother if they didnt have to ?
As for the c--p in the inlet manifold - so what ? As these engines are pressure charged they would need to be badly coked up to make any difference to output,by which time the engine would be due for at least a top end overhaul anyway.If you want to rant at the manufacturers then have a go at the accounts that "value engineer" components - not the designers and engineers.
So if your truck runs better with the EGR disconnected chances are the valve was stuck open anyway,as if it is working properly you wouldnt tell the difference.
Or do you know better than all the car manufacturers ? Cos they all use EGR,as its the best way to get emissions down on compression ignition engines - do you really think they would bother if they didnt have to ?
As for the c--p in the inlet manifold - so what ? As these engines are pressure charged they would need to be badly coked up to make any difference to output,by which time the engine would be due for at least a top end overhaul anyway.If you want to rant at the manufacturers then have a go at the accounts that "value engineer" components - not the designers and engineers.
Lenny1969
New Member
eightinavee said:
I do not know better than any car manufacturer whatsoever, but then again im pretty certain that absolutely nobody in this entire world can verify how my car ran before the blanking plate was on, and after, cuz only i drive it. I stated a FACT, my car runs a lot better AFTER the egr blanking plate was fitted, and i prefer the way it runs NOW to how it did run THEN.
And i couldnt give a flying f**k about nox, any car manafacturers data sheets or engineers, or if i have a little green fairy working my power steering pump, it runs far better now than previous.
Fact.
eightinavee
Well-Known Member
Dont drop yer shopping dear!
l3on
New Member
eightinavee, although I'm not disputing that the egr valve serves a purpose, it's the real world value of it that I'm questioning, and the motive the manufacturers have to use it, and then the benefit they try to apportion to it in sales literature and in the appearance of being 'green'.
At tickover, where emissions tests are carried out it will be open, at which point the drop in NOx will be reduced (beneficial as vehicles spend an awfull lot of time there), but the increase in fuel needed to sustain the same engine speed with it open and running, and running at less than perfect Stoichiometric value is neither green nor beneficial, just helpfull in passing a standardised test taking very few variables into account. HC and Particulate emissions generally increase under these conditions.
Under light acceleration requires that you apply more throttle to gain the desired acceleration giving the same results.
On overrun, the engine would normally be running on next to nothing but fresh air, so the gain is negligible - back to the percentage values quoted last post about re-burn.
Not being familiar with the 300TDi engine this thread was originally about, but does it also open at the throttle value equivilent to 100km per hour in top gear used in mpg testing and drive by noise tests (and also some emissions tests) as it does in other vehicles, accounting for the often massive flat spot seen on torque output graphs, mapped by the manufacturers for no reason other than to pass tests imposed on them, allowing them to produce un-green engines that appear to be greener than they really are?
I'm not a member of the green lobby, having owned numerous v6 and performance vehicles, but as I said previously I get fed up with manufacturers colluding with governments and 'independant' testing organisations to put up a smoke screen of economy and 'greenness' where the owner ends up being the loser, having to drive vehicles that are deliberately de-tuned at the point where the performance would be most useful and then sold on the idea that they are in fact benefitting from all of this.
Rant over.....for now.....
At tickover, where emissions tests are carried out it will be open, at which point the drop in NOx will be reduced (beneficial as vehicles spend an awfull lot of time there), but the increase in fuel needed to sustain the same engine speed with it open and running, and running at less than perfect Stoichiometric value is neither green nor beneficial, just helpfull in passing a standardised test taking very few variables into account. HC and Particulate emissions generally increase under these conditions.
Under light acceleration requires that you apply more throttle to gain the desired acceleration giving the same results.
On overrun, the engine would normally be running on next to nothing but fresh air, so the gain is negligible - back to the percentage values quoted last post about re-burn.
Not being familiar with the 300TDi engine this thread was originally about, but does it also open at the throttle value equivilent to 100km per hour in top gear used in mpg testing and drive by noise tests (and also some emissions tests) as it does in other vehicles, accounting for the often massive flat spot seen on torque output graphs, mapped by the manufacturers for no reason other than to pass tests imposed on them, allowing them to produce un-green engines that appear to be greener than they really are?
I'm not a member of the green lobby, having owned numerous v6 and performance vehicles, but as I said previously I get fed up with manufacturers colluding with governments and 'independant' testing organisations to put up a smoke screen of economy and 'greenness' where the owner ends up being the loser, having to drive vehicles that are deliberately de-tuned at the point where the performance would be most useful and then sold on the idea that they are in fact benefitting from all of this.
Rant over.....for now.....
darren44
New Member
so eightinavee do u get much acid rain where u live?
don't get much down here in wiltshire so i put a blanking plate on my disco and it made a noticable difference on acceleration, throttle response and mpg.
my disco recently passed it's mot and the emissions were fine with the blanking plate on.
as for all ur facts about nox and stuff i think u need to get out of ur house more,staying inside is f**king u up dude!
have a nice day
don't get much down here in wiltshire so i put a blanking plate on my disco and it made a noticable difference on acceleration, throttle response and mpg.
my disco recently passed it's mot and the emissions were fine with the blanking plate on.
as for all ur facts about nox and stuff i think u need to get out of ur house more,staying inside is f**king u up dude!
have a nice day
Richyborofanrich
New Member
totally agree with lenny my motor runs alot better with the blanking plate so that is good enough for me if somthing blows up in 5 years then i will be wrong but for now i am happy with it
eightinavee
Well-Known Member
Bu--er me what a clever bunch you all are !!! 13on ,I was reading your post (no 12) with interest - study a bit did you ? But it fell over in a big way -your statements were drifting into petrol engine theory !
Darren, I live 10 miles from you and I can see a big black cloud FULL of acid rain just by Bumpers farm ind est - hope you got yer coat on.
Wound you all up a treat - got to go now,time to play in the woods in my IIa
Chippenham - known locally as Nam. Not as bad as Trowbridge,its going to be bricked off and used as a septic tank for Bradford on Avon.
Darren, I live 10 miles from you and I can see a big black cloud FULL of acid rain just by Bumpers farm ind est - hope you got yer coat on.
Wound you all up a treat - got to go now,time to play in the woods in my IIa
Chippenham - known locally as Nam. Not as bad as Trowbridge,its going to be bricked off and used as a septic tank for Bradford on Avon.
