crashbox

crashbox

Well-Known Member
Talking to an old lad in the pub last night. He reckons he would be happier in a front wheel drive van than a 4wd Landy if driving on very icy roads. Was he just slabbering a load of drivel or does he have a point. I've never driven a 4wd on icy roads...yet, but done it plenty in front wd vans. Your comments will be welcome.. :confused:
 
ON icy roads, it's the stopping that's the problem, and it makes no difference whatsoever how many wheels are driven when yer trying to stop!

The only difference would be that starting off might be a bit easier with 4wd - and using the engine to brake would be more consistent in 4wd as well - but once yer skidding (which is the real problem with ice) it would make no difference at all!
 
Oddie said:
ON icy roads, it's the stopping that's the problem, and it makes no difference whatsoever how many wheels are driven when yer trying to stop!

The only difference would be that starting off might be a bit easier with 4wd - and using the engine to brake would be more consistent in 4wd as well - but once yer skidding (which is the real problem with ice) it would make no difference at all!
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Would the weight of the vehicle not help? I suppose it depends on ABS and speed when hitting the ice. I think I would still rather be in 4wd, like you say, it would be better at taking off again.
 
And that is why every rescue service when the snow and ice is down use front wheel drive tranny vans or the armed forces when in snow and ice scrap there landy's for some ldv vans pmsl

As fore the rest I got to go with oddie on that
 
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Have driven front wheel drive vans on ice with and without abs and traction control. When pulling away the extra weight means the front wheels will spin easier. Slight ramp and it's easier to reverse down it un start again. You have to be careful of your speed. Enough to keep going, but not to much that you loose steering control. When breaking you have to be more cautious. 4x4 would be betterer as you have 4 wheels with drive, so you can move off slowly and use all 4 wheels to move you forward. Gearbox breaking in a 4x4 is better than a 2wd, as your using all 4 wheel to brake, but you have to introduce it slowly or you'll lock up un skid. As said above ice is always a problem. Bit less so in a 4x4.
 
Using low range means you can keep yer speed down in the first place so straight away a landy has the edge even before taking into account how many drive wheels it has. If the speed is too low and you are on an icey slope it can cause the slide so using the correct gear depending on gradient is also a key factor. I've been on ice in front wheel drives, rear wheel drives and 4x4's and I'd prefer to be in a 4x4 with a low range every time.
 
i don't think it matters what you drive if you can't drive for **** .Ice is a fooker whatever your driving but i'd rather be in me landy in low gear than the mrs focus smooth changes and gentle throttle are essential.
 
in the disco you got a chance of bouncing off things... fwd van your looking at panel damage every time you touch the scenery....4wd will get you back on the road where as the van will just spin its wheels on the verge
 
crashbox said:
Would the weight of the vehicle not help? I suppose it depends on ABS and speed when hitting the ice. I think I would still rather be in 4wd, like you say, it would be better at taking off again.
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Weight would probably be more of a problem than a help. You're carrying more momentum for any given speed.

I'd definitely opt for the 4WD. Not just because I like Landys, but largely because of my experiences in the snow last year.

The roads round here are narrow little country lanes which dont get gritted. The first bout of snow, I didn't have the Landy, Only my daily driver (Rover 220 front wheel drive). On the first day of real snow, I gingerly drove home from work, having to be really careful because it would easily slip and slide at the slightest wrong movement. Just stuck it in second and dont dare touch the brake pedal for anything. The roads round here, I couldn't go about walking pace through fear of coming off the road.

The following day I went out on foot to assess the conditions. Saw a guy drive past in a Defender 90 pickup at about 40mph. I thought he was a lunatic, about to come of the road at any second (he didn't).

The second bout of snow I had the landy. Drove around in the snow all day for several days, felt a slight twich of a slide a total of three times, and one of those was only because I was trying to make it slide coming through a ford which was sheet ice on both sides by then. It just feels so much sure footed than a FWD.
 
I saw a van coming towards me on a single track road so I pulled over to let him through. He didn’t need to stop as he had the whole road to himself as I was on the grass verge. Van lost traction. 2wd and front wheels began to spin. Reversing a bit and trying again didn’t help as he was on a slight slope. So ma 4wd Freelander drove up the slope whilst pulling the van behind. :D

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYLnZvjz5Qk"]Land Rover Freelander 1 v6 pulls an LDV van up an icy hill - YouTube[/nomedia]


tow01.jpg


tow02.jpg
 
Having tried both, I would always take the disco and leave the Mondeo at home when the weather turns crap.
 
crashbox said:
Talking to an old lad in the pub last night. He reckons he would be happier in a front wheel drive van than a 4wd Landy if driving on very icy roads. Was he just slabbering a load of drivel or does he have a point. I've never driven a 4wd on icy roads...yet, but done it plenty in front wd vans. Your comments will be welcome.. :confused:
Click to expand...
Idiots are idiots, whether in a pub or not.

The only real disadvantage would be weight if you compared a 700kg Mini to a 2700kg Disco 4.

Tyres would have a huge affect, but being able to drive all the wheels is a huge advantage that only true fools and prats ignore.
 
crashbox said:
Talking to an old lad in the pub last night. He reckons he would be happier in a front wheel drive van than a 4wd Landy if driving on very icy roads. Was he just slabbering a load of drivel or does he have a point. I've never driven a 4wd on icy roads...yet, but done it plenty in front wd vans. Your comments will be welcome.. :confused:
Click to expand...

There's a lesson here, don't talk to "old lads" in pubs. As a general rule they know "nowt about owt"
 
Oddie said:
ON icy roads, it's the stopping that's the problem, and it makes no difference whatsoever how many wheels are driven when yer trying to stop!
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Using engine braking on all 4 wheels would have a huge advantage in slippery conditions. So using low range would be highly advisable, same as if it was mud or wet grass.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Using engine braking on all 4 wheels would have a huge advantage in slippery conditions. So using low range would be highly advisable, same as if it was mud or wet grass.
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No it doesn't, if the tyres have no traction, engine braking or brakes are useless. heavy 4x4s on ice are far worse than a light 2wd car.

I'd rather be driving a Fiat Panda on ice than a Disco 3 weighing 2.7t.

Tyres are everything on ice. More 4x4 drivers that think they're invincible end up in ditches going down hill through lack of grip combined with a heavy vehicle. i've seen so many Brits in the Alps rocking up in their Chelsea Tractors with big fat summer road tyres fitted, think they're driving gods and they're all over the place.
It's simple physics, lighter the better. 4WD will get you up the hill, but it's worse going down hill and stopping.
 
Spyderman said:
No it doesn't, if the tyres have no traction, engine braking or brakes are useless. heavy 4x4s on ice are far worse than a light 2wd car.

I'd rather be driving a Fiat Panda on ice than a Disco 3 weighing 2.7t.

Tyres are everything on ice. More 4x4 drivers that think they're invincible end up in ditches going down hill through lack of grip combined with a heavy vehicle. i've seen so many Brits in the Alps rocking up in their Chelsea Tractors with big fat summer road tyres fitted, think they're driving gods and they're all over the place.
It's simple physics, lighter the better. 4WD will get you up the hill, but it's worse going down hill and stopping.
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no traction is no traction, however many wheels you have.
 
Spyderman said:
No it doesn't, if the tyres have no traction, engine braking or brakes are useless. heavy 4x4s on ice are far worse than a light 2wd car.

I'd rather be driving a Fiat Panda on ice than a Disco 3 weighing 2.7t.

Tyres are everything on ice. More 4x4 drivers that think they're invincible end up in ditches going down hill through lack of grip combined with a heavy vehicle. i've seen so many Brits in the Alps rocking up in their Chelsea Tractors with big fat summer road tyres fitted, think they're driving gods and they're all over the place.
It's simple physics, lighter the better. 4WD will get you up the hill, but it's worse going down hill and stopping.
Click to expand...

But realistically how often do you take your motor to an ice rink? chances are no grip is actually plenty of grip unless you drive like an idiot. Which means equal tyres an AWD vehicle will generally have the advantage.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Which means equal tyres an AWD vehicle will generally have the advantage.
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Only for gaining traction to move. Down hills and cornering 4x4s are disadvantaged due to their additional weight and higher COG.

Very few people in the Alps drive 4x4s, most people that actually live their tend to go for light FWD cars. Apart from ground clearance a FIAT Panda with winter tyres will leave a Land Rover for dead on ice & snow covered roads.
 
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