B

Badger

Guest
Hi all, was in at local main dealers yesterday picking up some parts. Head
mechanic (decent bloke, actually) dragged me off to one side to look at a D3
TDV6. All the covers were off the engine, the fan and belts were off giving
loads of space between the rad and engine for the likes of timing belts.
Conversation went like this:-

Me. So what's up with it then?

Him. Points to injector pump at rear of valley on passenger side.

Me. High-pressure injector pump?

Him. Yep, how the **** does it come out of there then?

Me. (Has look) Well, at first glance you'd need to pull the engine, there's
not enough access to get to the drive belt, what a stupid ****ing design!

Him. We found a quicker way.

Me. Go on.......

Him. 2-post ramp under body sills, disconnect brake lines, steering and
electrics etc and lift body off chassis!

Me. You are ****ing kidding me, right? You telling me taking the body off is
quicker than removing the engine?

Him. Yep. By a long shot. Body lifted in 4 hours, engine out is 6 and a
half!

Me. (stunned silence!)

Him. Oh, and the drive belt for the injector pump is a 100,000 mile change
interval - isn't that going to be fun in the future when all the bolts are
rusted, long after the vehicles are out of the "dealer loop" eh? Not only
that, the turbo is hidden down on the passenger side of the engine, no
access to it from either above or below, so how the **** do you replace the
turbo, remove the body again??

Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever to
even consider buying one of these!

I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body from the
chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive belt,
effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way of doing the
job?
Badger.


 
Badger,

There were a few photos of D3's having body off services on mud-club. ISTR
it's body off if you put petrol in the diesel too.....

Many dealerships had to have upgraded ramps to take into account the body
off servicing......

--
Neil


 
On 2006-11-02, Badger <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:

> I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body
> from the chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive
> belt, effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way
> of doing the job?

Dunno on that vehicle but I know on some cars, once they get past a
certain age the owners or mechanics tend to cut access panels in
bodywork to get at the more stupid bits. An example of that is in
some versions of the Lotus Esprit, they cut an access panel between
the engine bay and the passenger compartment to allow them to change
the cam belt without having to lift the engine out. The cam belt is
at the front of the engine, which is about an inch from the firewall
between the engine compartment and passenger compartment.

The body isn't structural on the esprit though, it's about as stiff as
wet lettuce, not so sure on the D3.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
In message <cLGdnflzMvz4JtTYRVnyhQ@bt.com>
"Badger" <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hi all, was in at local main dealers yesterday picking up some parts. Head
> mechanic (decent bloke, actually) dragged me off to one side to look at a D3
> TDV6. All the covers were off the engine, the fan and belts were off giving
> loads of space between the rad and engine for the likes of timing belts.
> Conversation went like this:-
>
> Me. So what's up with it then?
>
> Him. Points to injector pump at rear of valley on passenger side.
>
> Me. High-pressure injector pump?
>
> Him. Yep, how the **** does it come out of there then?
>
> Me. (Has look) Well, at first glance you'd need to pull the engine, there's
> not enough access to get to the drive belt, what a stupid ****ing design!
>
> Him. We found a quicker way.
>
> Me. Go on.......
>
> Him. 2-post ramp under body sills, disconnect brake lines, steering and
> electrics etc and lift body off chassis!
>
> Me. You are ****ing kidding me, right? You telling me taking the body off is
> quicker than removing the engine?
>
> Him. Yep. By a long shot. Body lifted in 4 hours, engine out is 6 and a
> half!
>
> Me. (stunned silence!)
>
> Him. Oh, and the drive belt for the injector pump is a 100,000 mile change
> interval - isn't that going to be fun in the future when all the bolts are
> rusted, long after the vehicles are out of the "dealer loop" eh? Not only
> that, the turbo is hidden down on the passenger side of the engine, no
> access to it from either above or below, so how the **** do you replace the
> turbo, remove the body again??
>
> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever to
> even consider buying one of these!
>
> I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body from the
> chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive belt,
> effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way of doing the
> job?
> Badger.
>
>

I thought that was in the service manuals (the engine out bit)? It's
certainly had an airing here before.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 

"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:65b06e7f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> In message <cLGdnflzMvz4JtTYRVnyhQ@bt.com>
> >
> I thought that was in the service manuals (the engine out bit)? It's
> certainly had an airing here before.
>
> Richard

Must admit, I haven't heard of it before Richard. But from other comments by
Neil, it would seem it's been designed that way deliberately. Crazy.
Badger.


 
In message <pvCdna0s8sLdR9TYRVnygg@bt.com>
"Badger" <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote:

>
> "beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:65b06e7f4e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> > In message <cLGdnflzMvz4JtTYRVnyhQ@bt.com>
> > >
> > I thought that was in the service manuals (the engine out bit)? It's
> > certainly had an airing here before.
> >
> > Richard
>
> Must admit, I haven't heard of it before Richard. But from other comments by
> Neil, it would seem it's been designed that way deliberately. Crazy.
> Badger.
>
>

Indeed - patricularly for a supposed off-road vehicle that can cope
with all environments, as long as there's a fully equipped workshop
handy. Like in the fastest growing market, China, where *eveyone*
has a TestBook and Engine crane in their back pocket. Never mind
the Africa. And India. Oh, and South America. Austrailia I'd
imagine has the engine crane to hand. Eastern Eruope? I'm sure
thay have TestBooks on every street market (well, thinking about
it, they probably do!). So the market is Europe and the US then!
Off-road vehicle. Ha!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 

"Badger" <brianhatton@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:cLGdnflzMvz4JtTYRVnyhQ@bt.com...
> Hi all, was in at local main dealers yesterday picking up some parts. Head
> mechanic (decent bloke, actually) dragged me off to one side to look at a
> D3
> TDV6. All the covers were off the engine, the fan and belts were off
> giving
> loads of space between the rad and engine for the likes of timing belts.
> Conversation went like this:-
>
> Him. We found a quicker way.
>
> Me. Go on.......
>
> Him. 2-post ramp under body sills, disconnect brake lines, steering and
> electrics etc and lift body off chassis!
>
> Badger.
>
Land Rover have made it easy to do this, since there is still a separate
chassis, making this kind of operation easier.
You see my point, only a few disconnections as mentioned above, don't
understand why it takes 4 hours though.
Gordon>


 
beamendsltd <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> Indeed - patricularly for a supposed off-road vehicle that can cope
> with all environments, as long as there's a fully equipped workshop
> handy. Like in the fastest growing market, China, where *eveyone*
> has a TestBook and Engine crane in their back pocket. Never mind
> the Africa. And India. Oh, and South America. Austrailia I'd
> imagine has the engine crane to hand. Eastern Eruope? I'm sure
> thay have TestBooks on every street market (well, thinking about
> it, they probably do!). So the market is Europe and the US then!
> Off-road vehicle. Ha!
>
> Richard

Nah, you can corner a market here in roof mounted winches, Simply drive
under the nearest Tree and Bobs your uncle ;-)

Lee D


 
On or around Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:30:43 -0000, "Badger"
<brianhatton@btinternet.com> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body from the
>chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive belt,
>effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way of doing the
>job?

cut an access panel...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 
On or around Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:32:54 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<news06@tarcus.org.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>The cam belt is
>at the front of the engine, which is about an inch from the firewall
>between the engine compartment and passenger compartment.

sounds like the thermostat on the hillman imp.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 

"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
news:09ekk2p5non0ljebcabrfb7hnfgucbjhmt@4ax.com...
> On or around Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:30:43 -0000, "Badger"
> <brianhatton@btinternet.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body from
the
> >chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive belt,
> >effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way of doing the
> >job?
>
> cut an access panel...

Yep, after stripping out the whole of the dash, the heater box,
soundproofing etc etc.... it might just be quicker to remove the body!
Badger.

"The merest thought hadn't even begun to speculate about the slightest
possibility of crossing my mind."



 
Badger wrote:
> Hi all, was in at local main dealers yesterday picking up some parts.
> Head mechanic (decent bloke, actually) dragged me off to one side to
> look at a D3 TDV6. All the covers were off the engine, the fan and
> belts were off giving loads of space between the rad and engine for
> the likes of timing belts. Conversation went like this:-
>
> Me. So what's up with it then?
>
> Him. Points to injector pump at rear of valley on passenger side.
>
> Me. High-pressure injector pump?
>
> Him. Yep, how the **** does it come out of there then?
>
> Me. (Has look) Well, at first glance you'd need to pull the engine,
> there's not enough access to get to the drive belt, what a stupid
> ****ing design!
>
> Him. We found a quicker way.
>
> Me. Go on.......
>
> Him. 2-post ramp under body sills, disconnect brake lines, steering
> and electrics etc and lift body off chassis!
>
> Me. You are ****ing kidding me, right? You telling me taking the body
> off is quicker than removing the engine?
>
> Him. Yep. By a long shot. Body lifted in 4 hours, engine out is 6 and
> a half!
>
> Me. (stunned silence!)
>
> Him. Oh, and the drive belt for the injector pump is a 100,000 mile
> change interval - isn't that going to be fun in the future when all
> the bolts are rusted, long after the vehicles are out of the "dealer
> loop" eh? Not only that, the turbo is hidden down on the passenger
> side of the engine, no access to it from either above or below, so
> how the **** do you replace the turbo, remove the body again??
>
> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never,
> ever to even consider buying one of these!
>
> I'm still stunned yet at the thought of having to remove the body
> from the chassis at 100k miles just to replace a stupid little drive
> belt, effectively a service part! Surely there must be another way of
> doing the job?
> Badger.

Can't see a huge problem myself. I am surprised that it takes four hours to
remove a few multiplugs, a few pipes and the chassis bolts. Maybe four hours
to remove and refit perhaps? No problem in less developed areas but if you
pay £100+ per hour labour in the UK then it does hurt. With luck it won't
need doing for at least 100,000 miles. OTOH of course, it could need doing
every 25,000 miles if one is unlucky and has a Friday afternoon car.

Huw


 
Badger wrote:

> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever to
> even consider buying one of these!

Typical Ford mentality - try doing the clutch on a Mondeo - engine, box
and front subframe out the bottom as one assembly before they can be
split apart to access the clutch.


--
EMB
 

"EMB" <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:eidnlg$8s0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> Badger wrote:
>
>> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever to
>> even consider buying one of these!
>
> Typical Ford mentality - try doing the clutch on a Mondeo - engine, box
> and front subframe out the bottom as one assembly before they can be split
> apart to access the clutch.
>
>
> --
> EMB

Not just Ford ever done a clutch on a mini? it can be done in car but if I
tell you how I will be killed by veteran mini se7en members

Derek
(mini not some crappy krautwagen)


 
Derek wrote:

> Not just Ford ever done a clutch on a mini? it can be done in car but if I
> tell you how I will be killed by veteran mini se7en members

I've done more Mini clutches than most mechanics... and never removed
the engine to do it.


--
EMB
 
In message <eiemi8$kn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Derek wrote:
>
> > Not just Ford ever done a clutch on a mini? it can be done in car but if I
> > tell you how I will be killed by veteran mini se7en members
>
> I've done more Mini clutches than most mechanics... and never removed
> the engine to do it.
>
>

I can't say I ever had any major problems either - perhaps never
having a repair manual was a Good Thing!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <eiemi8$kn$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>
> EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Derek wrote:
>>
>>> Not just Ford ever done a clutch on a mini? it can be done in car
>>> but if I tell you how I will be killed by veteran mini se7en members
>>
>> I've done more Mini clutches than most mechanics... and never removed
>> the engine to do it.
>>
>>
>
> I can't say I ever had any major problems either - perhaps never
> having a repair manual was a Good Thing!
>
> Richard

The same might be true with some jobs on the DiscoIII and Rangey Sport.

Huw


 
And you can normally tell if a garage has done a clutch on a mini with the
engine in-situ as all the hard-to-get-at bolts at the bottom of the clutch
housing have not been refitted!

Patrick

"Derek" <del.wattsnospambaby@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:tUu2h.76660$6C2.26932@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "EMB" <embtwo@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eidnlg$8s0$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> > Badger wrote:
> >
> >> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever
to
> >> even consider buying one of these!
> >
> > Typical Ford mentality - try doing the clutch on a Mondeo - engine, box
> > and front subframe out the bottom as one assembly before they can be
split
> > apart to access the clutch.
> >
> >
> > --
> > EMB
>
> Not just Ford ever done a clutch on a mini? it can be done in car but if I
> tell you how I will be killed by veteran mini se7en members
>
> Derek
> (mini not some crappy krautwagen)
>
>


 
Patrick Manuel wrote:
> And you can normally tell if a garage has done a clutch on a mini with the
> engine in-situ as all the hard-to-get-at bolts at the bottom of the clutch
> housing have not been refitted!

Only one, and only if the mechanic is a bit rough... and if the garage
is clever all the bolts are in and there's a nice neat hole in the
sub-frame so you can get a socket on the bottom bolt.

--
EMB
 
On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:25:10 +1300, EMB <embtwo@gmail.com> scribbled
the following nonsense:

>Badger wrote:
>
>> Me. (In shock at how stupidly bad the design is) Remind me never, ever to
>> even consider buying one of these!
>
>Typical Ford mentality - try doing the clutch on a Mondeo - engine, box
>and front subframe out the bottom as one assembly before they can be
>split apart to access the clutch.

took me 17 hours to do the clutch on an Escort during half term, zetec
engine, have to remove virtually everything, see now why brother's
housemate was quoted £500 plus parts and VAT..... Never again
--

Simon Isaacs

"Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote"
George Jean Nathan (1882-1955)

ROT13 me....
 
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