T

Tannaton

Active Member
Evening all,

I have a July 2004 facelift Freelander Commercial which I bought as a project a year ago and I've just got around to it (now I've finished welding my Disco...)

Anyhow it has a few issues and I want to get a OBD something where I can read the engine sensors (fuel pressure, MAF, MAP etc.) I've done some searching and reading and the conclusion I have come to (which I am hoping someone will confirm or deny) is that as it is a post 2004 it is OBDII compliant but only for the basic stuff and I need a LR specific reader for what I want to do - such as Hawkeye?

Is that the case and is Hawkeye still be best? Any help appreciated...
 
I've been looking at the iCarsoft kit - apparently they have just released a new Land Rover/Jag specific unit called the LR1, but continue to sell the i930 badged as a Terrafirma unit? Its one third for the price of Hawkeye, I have a manual car so don't need TCM access. But you usually get what you pay for - is there any engine related programming or test sequences that you can do with Hawkeye than iCarsoft isn't capable of? At the moment I just want to get to real time data from various sensors that Torque won't read but who knows where I will get to from there.
 
The I930 will give you live data from the EDC of all engine sensors. As well as read and clear faults from the EDC and other ECUs in the vehicle. It can't be used for programming though, which is where the Hawkeye is better. It can program key's and fobs and some other tasks too. Like you said, you get what you pay for. ;)
 
The latest version of the Hawkeye is called the Hawkeye Total. It's betterer value for money over the previous version Hawkeye as it's unlocked for all LR's, from the range it covers, available at the time it were programmed. Easier to sell on at a later date. Also yer dun't need to buy additional licenses if yer have more than one version of LR to look after. Yer still need to buy certain connectors to manipulate the wiring for use on certain LR's/menu options.
 
Thanks Mr Hippo - just had a look on tinternet and the Hawkeye Total is only a few pence more than the older unit, so I think that's where I'm going to go. As you say, when I've done with it I reckon it will ebay for 80% of the new cost if I look after it...
 
The one thing I don't like about Hawkeye is you need different extra cost adapters to access different ECUs.
And it lists programming in the description. But programming what exactly? Can it add options to the Ipack for instance. Or clear adaptations on the engine ECU/ EDC or auto box TCM?
 
Nodge68 said:
The one thing I don't like about Hawkeye is you need different extra cost adapters to access different ECUs.
And it lists programming in the description. But programming what exactly? Can it add options to the Ipack for instance. Or clear adaptations on the engine ECU/ EDC or auto box TCM?
Click to expand...
When it lists programming it refers to key/fobs - linking them to yer vehicle. It won't upgrade software on the vehicle. It will reset or change the setup of some computers, depending on the vehicle yer working on. The issue of cable connection is due to the connections being different. Years ago motor manufacturers wanted the abs to be different to stop peeps mistakenly tampering with it. It was thought to be a risk. If the hawkeye had been designed with bidirectional connections and a bit of clever swopping between pins in the software then the separate connectors wouldn't be needed. I guess that's down to design and something we can't change. Peeps tend to dislike the hawkeye on LZ so it was never backed as a product. There was opportunity to give feedback some years ago but it didn't happen.
 
It shouldn't make any difference what ECUs can be accessed by which plug. It's simply a case of having the correct wires in the cable used. All the FL1 ECUs except the ABS and alarm are on the same BUS. So providing the tool can access the BUS, the tool should connect. The ABS/Alarm are on a separate BUS pin in the diag socket, but that shouldn't require a different plug. My I930 reads every ECU and does so with 1 plug. So why Hawkeye needs different plugs can only be a marketing thing to get more money out of the user.

Having had an IID BT tool for my D3. Any other reader just seems so limited in capabilities. Sadly Gap aren't going to release a FL1 compatible IID tool. So we are stuck with these low capability, moderate cost diagnostic devices.
 
Last edited:
Nodge68 said:
It shouldn't make any difference what ECUs can be accessed by which plug. It's simply a case of having the correct wires in the cable used. All the FL1 ECUs except the ABS and alarm are on the same BUS. So providing the tool can access the BUS, the tool should connect. The ABS/Alarm are on a separate BUS pin in the diag socket, but that shouldn't require a different plug. My I930 reads every ECU and does so with 1 plug. So why Hawkeye needs different plugs can only be a marketing thing to get more money out of the user.

Having had an IID BT tool for my D3. Any other reader just seems so limited in capabilities. Sadly Gap aren't going to release a FL1 compatible IID tool. So we are stuck with these low capability, moderate cost diagnostic devices.
Click to expand...
Have you tried the pscan with an FL1 Nodge, they claim they can do all sorts but a quick look at their website has no updates since Oct 2015. o_O
 
I had a quick look at the pscan forum and it apparently they released a software update in August this year so it must still be supported. :)
 
Alibro said:
Have you tried the pscan with an FL1 Nodge, they claim they can do all sorts but a quick look at their website has no updates since Oct 2015. o_O
Click to expand...

I think they are more active on Rover forums. I know very little about it other than its PC based. That's where the IID BT is good, as it uses a smartphone or tablet as the display and the dash information centre too. Sadly Pat at Gap has no plans to adapt it to the FL1 :(
 
Alibro said:
I had a quick look at the pscan forum and it apparently they released a software update in August this year so it must still be supported. :)
Click to expand...
Yeh, it would be nice if the pscan was a viable option as the guy who's created it is an enthusiast I believe - but of Rover cars. It is very much limited for Freelander and not really a suitable option.

As I understand it, the other main competitor to Hawkeye is the Lynx offering. Our friend from Portugal got one and was very praising in its capabilities, although as it transpired his judgement was rather questionable at times! That aside, the Lynx tool does look comparable to Hawkeye and is PC based if that is what floats your boat - a lot easier to read/analyse data.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Yeh, it would be nice if the pscan was a viable option as the guy who's created it is an enthusiast I believe - but of Rover cars. It is very much limited for Freelander and not really a suitable option.

As I understand it, the other main competitor to Hawkeye is the Lynx offering. Our friend from Portugal got one and was very praising in its capabilities, although as it transpired his judgement was rather questionable at times! That aside, the Lynx tool does look comparable to Hawkeye and is PC based if that is what floats your boat - a lot easier to read/analyse data.
Click to expand...

That's same poster from Portugal praised the Lynx, then bought a second hand Hawkeye. Makes me wonder why? If the Lynx was that good.
PC based is ok, if that's what you want. But I prefer a tablet or phone GUI these days.
 
Nodge68 said:
It shouldn't make any difference what ECUs can be accessed by which plug. It's simply a case of having the correct wires in the cable used. All the FL1 ECUs except the ABS and alarm are on the same BUS. So providing the tool can access the BUS, the tool should connect. The ABS/Alarm are on a separate BUS pin in the diag socket, but that shouldn't require a different plug. My I930 reads every ECU and does so with 1 plug. So why Hawkeye needs different plugs can only be a marketing thing to get more money out of the user.

Having had an IID BT tool for my D3. Any other reader just seems so limited in capabilities. Sadly Gap aren't going to release a FL1 compatible IID tool. So we are stuck with these low capability, moderate cost diagnostic devices.
Click to expand...

Sorry I missed yer reply. I agree in what you say about the connection. It's kind of what I said above but worded differently. A bidirectional port on the hawkeye would solve the need for the different connectors with the firmware managing the connection changeover for the different port wiring. I don't know why the hawkeye developer chose not to do it this way.

The hawkeye was designed and coded by omitec who also developed the T4 pc software for LR/rover. You can see what we call the hawkeye in the T4 brochures and manuals. It's branded as T4 although it's not the T4 pc software. It hangs off the side of the trolley and is separate. I assume for smaller jobs like gearbox temp when changing oil. Yer dun't need so many full T4's this way so makes life cheaper for dealers. LR/rover must have spec'd the T4. As they were selling the same looking device to main dealers alongside the T4 pc it makes me wonder if LR had a hand in what we know as the hawkeye. Or we at least benefitted from their idea's. It was bearmach which brought the hawkeye to the open market. It's unfair to knock the hawkeye for what it is. When it started out there was little else on the market. All companies need to make money from what they sell. I can appreciate why the adapter price is annoying but you can make them yourself if you prefer. Someone was selling these on ebay a while ago.

The adapter cost issue with Hawkeye is no different to knocking iid for vin locking some of their features to stop you from using all the features it has across multiple vehicles of the same model type. That's also blatant profiteering by positioning the product pricing in such a way as to make more sales. They either sell more devices to individual owners or you have to pay for the license to be removed/increased to allow you to use all features across all vehicles of the same model type. Similar to the original hawkeye being licensed to model type previously. Both products profited from doing this.

Spec wise you get what yer pay for. It's unfair to say a device has a lower capability when it's much cheaper. You get what you pay for. i7 pc costs more than i5 so you expect more for it. Most people can't afford or don't want to pay the higher price. The iid may be considered good but it's very expensive. It's where you draw the line at value for money that triggers most peeps purchase choice. Most owners of diagnostic device's I've talked to don't use it much after the initial purchase unless they have continuous trouble with their FL like I did. I think the average time peeps own a Freelander is less than 2 years. They either love it or hate it. There's few of us who have owned/suffered FL's for the length of time we have.

Being able to sell a diagnostic device and what yer can get for it seems to be a vital part of the initial purchase decision. You can sell an iid but they want an admin fee to move the vin lock over to the new vehicle. Some would say that's profiteering. The original hawkeye always had the complaint of the license controlling the LR model it could be used on. This was removed when they came out with the hawkeye total. I assume market pressure on price had a lot to do with this decision. Hence it's now open for use across all LR's so the option to sell on is much easier and the price you can get higher. The i930 has proved ok for some but it's intermittent across different FL's when trying to talk to the same computer on each one. I don't know why this is. We tried one on my v6 and it wouldn't talk to the engine, auto or abs computers so we gave up. Annoying as I travelled especially to see it used on my hippo. I'm not looking to buy one just curious at the time to see it used. The i930 it much cheaper than the hawkeye and iid which both seem to have a common factor they have put their price up £50 since I last looked. I would be the first to agree a diagnostic device is the way forward to helps us with our FL's but we can't condemn any of them as less capable without a fair comparison of price v options v what the typical owner will use/benefit from having it.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Yeh, it would be nice if the pscan was a viable option as the guy who's created it is an enthusiast I believe - but of Rover cars. It is very much limited for Freelander and not really a suitable option.

As I understand it, the other main competitor to Hawkeye is the Lynx offering. Our friend from Portugal got one and was very praising in its capabilities, although as it transpired his judgement was rather questionable at times! That aside, the Lynx tool does look comparable to Hawkeye and is PC based if that is what floats your boat - a lot easier to read/analyse data.
Click to expand...
Nodge68 said:
That's same poster from Portugal praised the Lynx, then bought a second hand Hawkeye. Makes me wonder why? If the Lynx was that good.
PC based is ok, if that's what you want. But I prefer a tablet or phone GUI these days.
Click to expand...
The chap from Portugal bought a lynx (don't know what model) and a hawkeye so he could use them both and compare them. He did this as he wanted to do a write up on his activities and compare the two products. I can't find it (don't know if he had a web site) so I assume he's either still working on it or it's not going to happen. Looks like he's disappeared which is a real same as I was quite looking forward to reading it. He hasn't posted for just over a year. Not seen a lynx before other than small you tube snippets.
 
Hippo said:
Sorry I missed yer reply. I agree in what you say about the connection. It's kind of what I said above but worded differently. A bidirectional port on the hawkeye would solve the need for the different connectors with the firmware managing the connection changeover for the different port wiring. I don't know why the hawkeye developer chose not to do it this way.

The hawkeye was designed and coded by omitec who also developed the T4 pc software for LR/rover. You can see what we call the hawkeye in the T4 brochures and manuals. It's branded as T4 although it's not the T4 pc software. It hangs off the side of the trolley and is separate. I assume for smaller jobs like gearbox temp when changing oil. Yer dun't need so many full T4's this way so makes life cheaper for dealers. LR/rover must have spec'd the T4. As they were selling the same looking device to main dealers alongside the T4 pc it makes me wonder if LR had a hand in what we know as the hawkeye. Or we at least benefitted from their idea's. It was bearmach which brought the hawkeye to the open market. It's unfair to knock the hawkeye for what it is. When it started out there was little else on the market. All companies need to make money from what they sell. I can appreciate why the adapter price is annoying but you can make them yourself if you prefer. Someone was selling these on ebay a while ago.

The adapter cost issue with Hawkeye is no different to knocking iid for vin locking some of their features to stop you from using all the features it has across multiple vehicles of the same model type. That's also blatant profiteering by positioning the product pricing in such a way as to make more sales. They either sell more devices to individual owners or you have to pay for the license to be removed/increased to allow you to use all features across all vehicles of the same model type. Similar to the original hawkeye being licensed to model type previously. Both products profited from doing this.

Spec wise you get what yer pay for. It's unfair to say a device has a lower capability when it's much cheaper. You get what you pay for. i7 pc costs more than i5 so you expect more for it. Most people can't afford or don't want to pay the higher price. The iid may be considered good but it's very expensive. It's where you draw the line at value for money that triggers most peeps purchase choice. Most owners of diagnostic device's I've talked to don't use it much after the initial purchase unless they have continuous trouble with their FL like I did. I think the average time peeps own a Freelander is less than 2 years. They either love it or hate it. There's few of us who have owned/suffered FL's for the length of time we have.

Being able to sell a diagnostic device and what yer can get for it seems to be a vital part of the initial purchase decision. You can sell an iid but they want an admin fee to move the vin lock over to the new vehicle. Some would say that's profiteering. The original hawkeye always had the complaint of the license controlling the LR model it could be used on. This was removed when they came out with the hawkeye total. I assume market pressure on price had a lot to do with this decision. Hence it's now open for use across all LR's so the option to sell on is much easier and the price you can get higher. The i930 has proved ok for some but it's intermittent across different FL's when trying to talk to the same computer on each one. I don't know why this is. We tried one on my v6 and it wouldn't talk to the engine, auto or abs computers so we gave up. Annoying as I travelled especially to see it used on my hippo. I'm not looking to buy one just curious at the time to see it used. The i930 it much cheaper than the hawkeye and iid which both seem to have a common factor they have put their price up £50 since I last looked. I would be the first to agree a diagnostic device is the way forward to helps us with our FL's but we can't condemn any of them as less capable without a fair comparison of price v options v what the typical owner will use/benefit from having it.
Click to expand...
The IID can't be compared to the I930, Hawkeye or anything else. It's been developed simply to allow the user to do pretty much whatever they want to do. It'll program ECUs, read live data, check actuators, real time monitor, all sensors on the engine, ABS, transmission and anything else with an ECU and save the data to file for looking at once at home. It'll also set suspension hights to custom hights, where EAS is fitted as well as alter factory settings for interior light delays, headlights delay and loads of other stuff that's increasing all the time. Yes it's expensive, but so is a trip the LR for a full diagnostic, that might not help. Also Gap have a customer service that has to be tried to be believed. If you asked for a particular function, they'll add it in the next update. Sadly it can't be used on the FL1, or I'd still have one.
Hippo said:
The chap from Portugal bought a lynx (don't know what model) and a hawkeye so he could use them both and compare them. He did this as he wanted to do a write up on his activities and compare the two products. I can't find it (don't know if he had a web site) so I assume he's either still working on it or it's not going to happen. Looks like he's disappeared which is a real same as I was quite looking forward to reading it. He hasn't posted for just over a year. Not seen a lynx before other than small you tube snippets.
Click to expand...

You missed all the trouble that particular poster caused on here.
 
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