G

george rollason

Member
Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum and have got my first problem arise with my 2002 defender 90 td5 since buying it from new.
I drove down the road (1/2 mile) to check my cattle, turned engine off, walked round field for 15 mins and when i came back, engine cranked, seemed to fire once, but wouldn't start. I had to tow it home and I got a mobile mechanic out yesterday.
He ran diagnostics to start with and it came up with same fault on all five injectors, cleared all faults tried to start it, same faults came back up. something like "injector 1 short...". He then checked injector harness plug, no oil, and the ecu plugs, no oil. He squirted wd40 down intake as i cranked and it ran nice until he stopped squirting. We also tried putting 20 litres of diesel in, changed fuel filter and running purge procedure several times. He then tried starting it a few times, fired once then just spins as it did before, and lots of dark grey smoke comes out the exhaust (obviously burnt diesel), and thinks it may be an injector stuck open, but needs to do some research. Has anyone had this happen or got any advice? any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
george rollason said:
Hi everyone, i'm new to this forum and have got my first problem arise with my 2002 defender 90 td5 since buying it from new.
I drove down the road (1/2 mile) to check my cattle, turned engine off, walked round field for 15 mins and when i came back, engine cranked, seemed to fire once, but wouldn't start. I had to tow it home and I got a mobile mechanic out yesterday.
He ran diagnostics to start with and it came up with same fault on all five injectors, cleared all faults tried to start it, same faults came back up. something like "injector 1 short...". He then checked injector harness plug, no oil, and the ecu plugs, no oil. He squirted wd40 down intake as i cranked and it ran nice until he stopped squirting. We also tried putting 20 litres of diesel in, changed fuel filter and running purge procedure several times. He then tried starting it a few times, fired once then just spins as it did before, and lots of dark grey smoke comes out the exhaust (obviously burnt diesel), and thinks it may be an injector stuck open, but needs to do some research. Has anyone had this happen or got any advice? any suggestions would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
if you undo the bung on bottom of fuel filter place a container under it and switch ignition on does fuel flow forcefully from it ,if it doesnt remove pump from tank if it does check fuel pressure at the switch on fuel pressure regulator rhs rear of head,does the oil in sump smell of diesel
 
What scanner did he use to read fault codes as not all are compliant with Td5. Crank sensor fault should log a diagnostic fault.
Try unplugging the injector loom where it leaves cylinder head and re connect to ensure good connection
 
johnlad said:
What scanner did he use to read fault codes as not all are compliant with Td5. Crank sensor fault should log a diagnostic fault.
Try unplugging the injector loom where it leaves cylinder head and re connect to ensure good connection
Click to expand...
He used a snap-on machine, came up with 5 injector faults, all the same, something along the lines of short circuit or open circuit, and also air conditioning, but he said thats because its not fitted. Nothing about cps. We've already removed harness plug to check for oil, but all looks ok. as do ecu plugs.
 
mojo247 said:
I was thinking if the guy comes out again there are a few things he can check!
Click to expand...
yeah thanks, appreciate everyone's suggestions, i'm trying to tick them off as we go. I've just read some old threads about the wiring harness in rocker cover going brittle, could it be this? Just weird how it drove perfectly and suddenly won't start.
 
a Land Rover feature unfortuntaley! not sure about the harness?

The big earthing point is at the transfer case, under the car on the left hand side (I think!)

Just read this bit again, "He squirted wd40 down intake as i cranked and it ran nice until he stopped squirting", this does suggest fuel issues.
 
i would be inclined to change the injector harness, costs about £30 and half an hour to change
 
johnlad said:
i would be inclined to change the injector harness, costs about £30 and half an hour to change
Click to expand...
Mechanic came back an just over an hour ago, he tested pressure to fuel regulator (4.4bar) and nipped the pipe for a second while i was cranking and pump strained and pressure went over 7bar. so pump must be ok. and then he removed rocker cover and did a continuity test on wiring harness and all was ok. he's coming back tomorrow to test from ecu to injector harness and also test with an oscilloscope.
 
waggle hand brake whilst cranking engine I've had a def td5 that only ran when hand brake waggled causing an earth to body fitted ,new earth from battery to seat box and all was well ,,,give it a go u never know .ps this was a farm vehicle also poo n **** rots everything lol :cool:
 
When the injector harness in the cylinder head is on the way out, I've found there can be errors that sound like they're injector related - 'peak charge long' for example.
The crank position sensor, on the upper driver's side of the bellhousing (usually hiding under the air intake pipe) can fail and cause the symptoms you describe. Also, the electromagnetic field from the starter can interfere with it.

Will the diagnostic equipment show the RPM? If so you should be able to see rpm when the engine is turned over on the starter. About 260 or so in my experience. If you can see that, then the crank position sensor is probably OK. If the engine will start if you tow it (i.e. not using the starter), this suggests that the starter is generating too much interference.

The other thing that it could be is an ECU fault. Sometimes this shows up as a 'topside switch error' code, but not always. It sounds like it's not telling the injectors to open and close. I blew an ECU in one of these at the end of 2014. This was replaced by a garage and the new one blew last October. I blow more ECUs than I do tyres. The second time I suspected that it was an ECU fault and sent it to one of those firms that say they test and repair ECUs. Cost me £300 but solved the problem. I should really carry a spare ECU in the car on long trips.

Let us know if there's been any progress.
 
We've done every test under the sun without replacing anything yet. He used a scanner that he looped over each injector wire and it gives live data showing as a graph on laptop as he cranked engine. 4 injectors showed nothing at all, injector no.1 gave a reading. He unplugged inj 1 and it started on the other 4! We then plugged injector 2 plug to no.1 and it started and showed even graph read out for the 4 injectors plugged in. So basically, if we plug all 5 injectors in the ecu sh##s itself. So a mate of his is going to plug a dealership test ecu in and see if it works.
 
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