G

Greg

Guest

• Oct 12, 2006

• #1

I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V negative
earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the battery
terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the bracket for
the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to the
chassis!.

It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt on the
battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?. If
someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time they're
under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the frayed
wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of battery
wire!.

Greg

 

T

Tom Woods

Guest

• Oct 12, 2006

• #2

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:51:36 +0100, "Greg"
<news@SPAM123voyager2.nildram.co.uk> wrote:

>I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V negative
>earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the battery
>terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the bracket for
>the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to the
>chassis!.
>
>It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt on the
>battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?. If
>someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time they're
>under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the frayed
>wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of battery
>wire!.

It doesnt really matter how you do it, but both the battery and the
block should be earthed to the chassis.

Generally they both go to the same point but itdoesnt matter as long
as the points you connect them to are nice and clean and solid.

The block needs to be earthed as the starter and other things just
earth directly through it.

 

A

Andrew Mawson

Guest

• Oct 12, 2006

• #3

"Greg" <news@SPAM123voyager2.nildram.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G8ednTalKbx4JbPYnZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@pipex.net...
> I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V
negative
> earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the
battery
> terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the
bracket for
> the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to
the
> chassis!.
>
> It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt
on the
> battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?.
If
> someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time
they're
> under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the
frayed
> wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of
battery
> wire!.
>
> Greg
>
>

If I remember correctly Greg, on my 109 there was an earth braid from
one of the starter moter bolts to the chassis. If it is not there you
are in grave danger of your speedo cable outer going up in flames.

AWEM

 

G

gordon

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #4

> If I remember correctly Greg, on my 109 there was an earth braid from
> one of the starter moter bolts to the chassis. If it is not there you
> are in grave danger of your speedo cable outer going up in flames.
>
> AWEM

Not really, the choke cable acts as an adequate if not wholly
satisfactory earth, well it has in the past for my Series 1.

Gordon

 

N

Nigel Hewitt

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #5

gordon wrote:
> Not really, the choke cable acts as an adequate if not wholly
> satisfactory earth, well it has in the past for my Series 1.

ROTFL.
I 'fixed' a friends mini back in the 70s replacing the dried out, seized up
throttle cable with a new plastic shroud type and the pedal went up and
down beautifuly until we turned the key when it all went up in smoke.

No engine ground strap.

nigelH

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #6

In message <G8ednTalKbx4JbPYnZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@pipex.net>
"Greg" <news@SPAM123voyager2.nildram.co.uk> wrote:

> I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V negative
> earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the battery
> terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the bracket for
> the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to the
> chassis!.
>
> It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt on the
> battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?. If
> someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time they're
> under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the frayed
> wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of battery
> wire!.
>
> Greg
>
>

The battery -ve should go to a bolt under the battery carrier.
The block should be earthed from the (usually) starter motor
fixings to the chassis, adjacent to the starter. As observed
by another post, if this is not done then the earth will try
to find it's own way home via any connection, which could
be the speedo cable etc, or worse via the gearbox which is
Bad News as current flowimg through all the interesting
different metals does wonderful (i.e. expensive) things.

It is also quite common for the earth to not be able to find a
way home at all, which will result in bad, or non-existent,
starting.
If I had a pound for every time I could have sold a battery,
alternator and/or starter to cure a bad earth....... ;-)

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

 

P

Paul - xxx

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #7

Greg came up with the following;:
> I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V negative
> earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the battery
> terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the bracket for
> the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to the
> chassis!.
>
> It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt on the
> battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?. If
> someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time they're
> under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the frayed
> wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of battery
> wire!.

Best thing I ever did on my series 3 was to replace the earth straps with
one from battery to engine block, one from battery to chassis and one
between engine and chassis.

Probably way overkill, but it definitely stopped all the little 'gremlins'
we'd been experiencing.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
ebay stuff
140040070648
140041371006

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #8

Nigel Hewitt <nigelhewitt@REMOVEhotmail.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> gordon wrote:
>> Not really, the choke cable acts as an adequate if not wholly
>> satisfactory earth, well it has in the past for my Series 1.
>
> ROTFL.
> I 'fixed' a friends mini back in the 70s replacing the dried out,
> seized up throttle cable with a new plastic shroud type and the pedal
> went up and down beautifuly until we turned the key when it all went
> up in smoke.
> No engine ground strap.
>
> nigelH

Several 101's have fallen foul of the handbrake cable welding it's self to
the case due to failed earth connectors.

If it'll do that then bung a couple of more on.

On my IIa there was a earth by the gearbox too I seem to recall. I also ran
one to the Chassis and the Jag block when I fitted the jag lump.

Lee D
--
www.lrproject.com

a.f.l. & 101ers Unofficial October 2006
<http://www.lrproject.com/afl__101_owners_unofficial.htm>

"Anti's - Give
them enough rope and they'll be stuck in a ditch with a lot of rope ;-) "

 

H

hugh

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #9

In message <501712754e%beamendsltd@btconnect.com>, beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> writes
>In message <G8ednTalKbx4JbPYnZ2dnUVZ8qudnZ2d@pipex.net>
> "Greg" <news@SPAM123voyager2.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I suspect the arrangement of battery negative wire on my 109 (12V negative
>> earth petrol) isn't as it was intended, there is a wire from the battery
>> terminal to the bolt on the side of the engine that holds the bracket for
>> the crank case breather, and nothing apparent linking the engine to the
>> chassis!.
>>
>> It appears from the books that the battery wire should go to a bolt on the
>> battery frame, but surely there should also be a link to the block?. If
>> someone is familiar with this or could have a quick look next time they're
>> under the bonnet I would be grateful as I'm having to replace the frayed
>> wires and would like to get it right first time with the price of battery
>> wire!.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>
>The battery -ve should go to a bolt under the battery carrier.
>The block should be earthed from the (usually) starter motor
>fixings to the chassis, adjacent to the starter. As observed
>by another post, if this is not done then the earth will try
>to find it's own way home via any connection, which could
>be the speedo cable etc, or worse via the gearbox which is
>Bad News as current flowimg through all the interesting
>different metals does wonderful (i.e. expensive) things.
>
>It is also quite common for the earth to not be able to find a
>way home at all, which will result in bad, or non-existent,
>starting.
>If I had a pound for every time I could have sold a battery,
>alternator and/or starter to cure a bad earth....... ;-)
>
>Richard
Yep, everybody blames the battery.

My FIL had an Austin 1100 once which had a history of bad starting
problems. Most days it would be fine, but then suddenly for no apparent
reason it would fail to turn over. Nothing, absolutely dead.

I too fell for it and bought a new battery, only to have the same
problem a few days later. Had another check of the earthing leads and
this time gave an extra tug and felt a very slight movement. Took it off
and immediately spotted the problem. The car had been under-sealed from
new (An Option in those days). A small blob had come through the fixing
hole and so the earth braid was bolted down on to it, not making a clean
flat contact with the metal. Over the years water had seeped in and it
had corroded. Cleaned it up and never had another problem.

Had a similar problem with my 90. The earth braid was crimped onto the
terminal. Again just a very slight movement detected. Local
Auto-electrician recognised the problem immediately, and soldered it up
for me. No more problems.

--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

 

D

Dave Liquorice

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #10

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:21:58 +0100, hugh wrote:

> Had another check of the earthing leads and this time gave an extra tug
> and felt a very slight movement.

It's also worth feeling any of the high current joints after a session of
"failed to start", any that are even slightly iffy will be warm. Ones
that are definately iffy could be HOT so take care...

--
Cheers new5pam@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

 

G

Greg

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #11

"Tom Woods" <news@NOPSAMtomwoods.co.uk> wrote in message

> It doesnt really matter how you do it, but both the battery and the
> block should be earthed to the chassis.

Thanks to all who replied, I have finally found the remains of what was once
a braid from starter to chassis so it appears that someone's 'fix' was to
move the negative lead straight to the block. I'll get it replaced as part
of the rewire.

Greg

 

R

Richard

Guest

• Oct 21, 2006

• #12

Andrew Mawson wrote:

>
>
> If I remember correctly Greg, on my 109 there was an earth braid from
> one of the starter moter bolts to the chassis. If it is not there you
> are in grave danger of your speedo cable outer going up in flames.
>
> AWEM
>
>
>

Goodrich SS brake hoses also provide a satisfactory earth return path -
at least they did when one of the battry straps on my RRC decided to see
how many times it could wrap itself around the steering column - oh and
so did the +ve supply to the rear lights and the throttle cable sheath.

The brake hoses showed no sign of damage until the lining of one burst
at an MOT test some months later. Apparently the heat had melted the
hose almost to bursting point and it eventually failed.

Richard